Help needed over Birth Mother's demands!

[zazas]

OK Mothering voices of reason, I need some advice!

BM of my DP's 2 children has decided to go on holiday to India in Jan for 16 days. She believes that it is DP's responsibility to have the children with us over this time. No problem in having them here per se (we currently have them one night a week and alternative weekends) but it would mean that DP would have to finish work at 2.50pm each day to pick them up from school and not start work until 9.30 each day after dropping them - about an hour round trip to their village where they live and go to school - 2 hours driving a day for him. While we own our own business, it involves long hours and often DP does not finish until 7pm to get the work done. Financially we can't afford for him to cut down his hours like this nor can we get the work done (already booked up for this period) if he reduces his hours like this.

He has suggested he will still have them the one night a week and then over both weekends she is away from Friday (2pm when they finish school) until Monday morning and that she gets her Mother to stay the other nights. By the way they are 6 and 7, mine are 5 and 8 and we are expecting a baby together in April.

BM is now playing the 'guilt' card and saying that they are his kids too and his responsibility etc etc. She finishes work each day at 3.30pm to pick them up so it is his turn. This obviously ignores the fact she finishes work early because he pays her maintenance / we buy all the kids clothes and shoes and pay for any extra activities and school lunches! Plus she gets child allowanace / working tax credit and child benefit because they are resident with her! `~ (maybe why she can afford the holiday )

Anyway I think she is being unreasonable, as does DP but feels under preassure as she plays the 'they are your kids' card. The impact on us all will be large if this happens and I guess what makes me angry is that it is over a holiday - she had 2 weeks on her own with BF in August in France so she is hardly desperate for one!

Any thoughts - advice so we can sort this out?!!!

Thanks all for your advice - tempered me a little which is appreciated! Blame pregnancy hormones But it was great to get the feedback and different point of views.

So DP just spoken to the mother (bm or dm??) - she is now trying to arrange some of the nights so the kids can go to friends etc until 5.30pm - makes a massive difference to us if she does this.

All in all, DP, I and kids delighted to get more time together and now we have the mother finally thinking things through a bit more to make it work for all of us.

Would just have been easier if discussed earlier on and instead or her just brushing aside DP concerns instead acknowleged them to find a solution.

Glad it's all improving for you all, zazas.f Sorry I jumped down your throat about the "BM" thing, it's a bugbear of mine and nothing to do with you personally.

Why can't you pick them up and ask a local friend to pick up your 2 and keep them for the 40 mins it takes you to get back from their school ? He could do their morning drop off and start work late but then not have to finish early.

Thanks santasbaby - yes it is nice for DP to have more time - irony is that even with best intentions he will have to pick them up and go back to work to get things completed - just the nature of what we do.

Kids haven't heard any of this by the way - all discussed while they have been at school.

We are just very different Mothers att he end of the day and it can be a struggle to understand the logic of her decisions - baring in mind I am also in the same situation as her with an ex and 2 children who are resident with me.

Don't worry greensleeves - no offense taken at all - but what do I write???!!!!

not sure if this has already been suggested but does your dh take the girls on holiday at all? in which case with planning (ie for next time) would it not be pretty ideal all round if such holidays could be timed to coincide?

LipZ - that could work some of the nights - we are finding solutions here!!!! - thanks

hatwoman - yes we take all 4 kids away for 2 weeks in summer / have them with us at home for 2 weeks and at least 1/2 the other holidays. So the mother in the summer holidays went on her own with her bf to france for 2 weeks while we holidayed with kids.

So logically that works - it is just holidays in Jan that has thrown us!

fwiw (and - for my own reasons - I am passionate as the next person about equality in parenting in teh case of divorce) I think going away in term time when you don't all live close by is at least questionable - aside from the effect on you (which, if you'll forgive me is kind of tough, iyswim) what about the effect on the kids? it's disruptive for them.

that sounded a bit harsh - what I said about "tough", what I meant is that the people that really matter in all this is the kids. fairness and adult politics are secondary - it's them that matters, cos none of it is their fault.

I think most people would agree to book the holiday without consulting anyone is not on but it's been done so you have to do the best.

We live 40 miles from dss and we see him as much as we are allowed. It is difficult for us to pick him up from school as it involves us leaving work early and getting to work late, as with you but we make the time up.

We recently had dss for a week while his mum went on holiday and we dh had to make up the time the following week. I am on flexi time so I could make it up as an when it's convenient but I am not allowed to pick him up on my own as his mum feels it's not appropriate.

Can you not take it in turns to collect the children and work the extra hours once they've gone to bed. I realise it will put a strain on you but it's short term.

We are always grateful to have dss and we will make any sacrifices necessary. It's very difficult when children are relatively far away and you have to make special arrangements outside of the norm but they are his children and I have to say that it's not totally unreasonable for her to expect that he's have them.

If she were in hospital or some other unforseen problem they would need to go to school and have somewhere to say and you make it happen. This is maybe different in your mind cos she has be inconsiderate here but the result is the same.

agree hatwoman - going away in term term makes it so much harder for us to sort out. Yes the kids are the priority in this but any effects on the adults will filter down to the kids so I believe that they are interwound - that is just the plain reality of it all. It is not as if it is disrupting our plans of going away or socialising - it's just balancing our work which after all supports the mother in enabling her to have the choice to take holidays!

wow
try being me (BM)

i had one weeks holiday last yr with my children ^ my parents in a caravan
my soon to be ex H and his tart had TWO foreign holidays

I have booked in Feb HALF TERM to go away Thurs til Monday - my mum is having them Sunday night & taking DS to school & looking after DD til I get home
I asked H to have kids Wed til Sunday (its his weekend anyway) and he MOANED

god forbid that I want a long weekend away with the girls and have made them all go during half term which is more expensive

agree that she should have asked you BUT they are his kids....and hes quite happy to have your 2 full time so ....PARP

they ARE his kids as well you know, of course he should have them. praps their mother needs a well deserved break. would you sacrifice your business for a few weeks for your own children or is it just the fact that these kids arent yours

Santa, agree with you about BM being used to mean 'the mother of my dp's/dh's children' (not having a go at you, Zaza, it just happened to come up on your thread.)

Glad you are sorting things out, Zaza.

I think the crux is that she should have asked first and come up with ways of making it work - nothing to do with having the kids - 7 swans swimming. Still can't quite get the logic of it is OK for us to 'scarifice' our business and the money that support the mother and the kids over her decision to have a 2nd 2 week break in less than 6 months and in term time - so maximum disruption for kids. How can we be seen as the 'bad' ones when we have never said we don't want them - we just need her to help find ways to make it work!

Each to their own about needing a break but she is in the same situation as me we both have 2 kids and a partner (although he doesn't have any kids) except I am also pregnant - and my two only spend about 40 nights a year with their dad - hers are with us about 150.

MMiggins - DP lives in my house as do my kids - no choice! As I said it is not about the kids - all I want is others to support me that it is a crap thing to do - book a holiday without making sure it was OK with everyone else. Blows my mind that people can do this and then say - you sort it out!

I think you're right to some extent, the woman is obviously unreasonable to book the holiday first without negotiating childcare. However, did she do that because she felt that if she tried to negotiate, she wouldn't be able to go on holiday because you would refuse and once you've consulted someone and they've said no, you then don't have a leg to stand on, whereas if you do it as a fait accompli they have to negotiate with you? That's the only situation I can imagine it being reasonable to do what she's done. If I were your DH, I would say that this time, I'll bend over backwards to co-operate, but that next time I'd prefer her to negotiate properly. Long term, it's probably very good for you to be co-operating with her now, because she will realise that you are reasonable, will be less likely to pull a stunt like this again, and will be more likely to accede to a reasonable request of yours. However infuriating something like this is, sometimes you create a virtuous circle by responding positively as you are doing.

Agree with the birthmother thing btw, not having a go at you zaza, but it is an extremely offensive term when used about a normal mother, which I'm puzzled to see has crept into the language in this context. It used to only ever describe mothers who had given up their children (or been forced to give up their children) for adoption. Now it seems to be being used willy nilly to describe any old mother. I don't quite know when that started to happen.

I am happy to be referred to as BM

if you're on the Step parent thread, what else are you?

dont be so sensitive

I'm the mother. Not birth mother. It's a deliberate diminution of the status of motherhood, imo. It's putting the birth mother, the foster mother, the step mother, the day mother, the night mother, etc. all on the same level and denying the uniqueness of motherhood.

(Am using the term day mother because that's what the literal translation of the German for childminder is in English, which has always amused me.)

Ok no to BM - but what should it be then just for mumsnet acronyms???? Personally it doesn't worry me but in all honestly have not given it much thought until now.

Thanks christmascalig - maybe that is why she did it. Think we have come to grips with it - sure it will work out OK and it is only for 2 weeks. I will be 32 weeks pregnant by then, being even busier with the 4 kids will make time fly!

OK DH's ex is better - once again sorry if I used unintentionally the wrong term.

One of the reasons anniemac that we have our own business is so that we can work around the children - DP already leaves work early 2 x a week and comes in late 2 times - things he couldn't do if he was employed by a company. His last job saw him away a lot as well and that was another reason for a change so that wouldn't happen.

It is just where do you draw the line - he can't be in constant limbo in case he has to drop everything to look after the kids (exception of course over illness) if his ex suddenly decides she is off on holiday! We can be so flexible to a degree and schedule our work to take time off in school holidays but when his ex chooses to holiday during school term, it is hard to juggle commitments with the kids school needs especially when they don't live close by.

Honestly the pedantry on these threads re abbreviations...

Zazas it seems you are in a difficult situation and I can see you are trying to be accommodating. There should be flexability on both sides, however the bottom line is it is her choice to have a holiday and she should have cleared arrangements with you and your DH before she booked it if she needed to rely on you for extra childcare. I advise you to stick to your guns.
Plus you are PG and don't need the extra stress.

Thanks lubella. Yes she should of but it is too late now so we will sort it out! At least DP and I are in complete agreement over this and even though he cherishes every moment with his kids, is realistic about his prior work commitments and has made that quite clear to his ex - for the future. Funny thing was that she said that she would make it up to us by having the kids over our weekends when she gets back - but the point is that we want them with us so that would be a punishment for DP - not seeing them for 2 weeks!

It can be so tricky this juggling business - DP's EX won't let them stay Sunday night normally as she feels it is too far for the kids to travel to school on a Monday morning! But I guess it is OK for them to have to do it for 2 weeks! I feel sorry for DP - he just wants them as much as he can without disrupting their routines too much.