My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Connect with other Mumsnetters here for step-parenting advice and support.

Step-parenting

Extra access with out checking

158 replies

Sorrybutilikekatie · 11/01/2015 17:05

Ok well maybe checking isn't the word but I'm not sure how else to put it.

I have been living with my dp for 6 months and I see us as a team ie I don't plan things with out saying " oh on Saturday im going to do this is that ok" just out of courtesy really. Plus he work shifts so time together is limited

Anyway my dp has three children from his marriage and we have them every Sunday for a sleep over. Twice so far he has taken the children on extra nights one bring NYE (our first as a real couple) and now on Valentine's days. I'm really annoyed as Valentine's Day is a big deal to me (sad I know) but I like to take the time to make it nice and romantic even if it's just a pizza and a movie.

I'm totally new to this whole step children thing and I feel totally out of depth.

Am I being a brat? Or is it something that would annoy you too?

OP posts:
Report
TheJingleMumsRush · 18/01/2015 20:18

Excellent post Preuvian

Report
PeruvianFoodLover · 18/01/2015 20:53

Thanks jingle -I recognise my former self in caorunn and although I was deaf to the advice and objections I was given back then, as time went on, I was able to reflect and look back on the opinions of others and concede that they had a point.

Report
Caorunn · 19/01/2015 00:09

Well clearly not all parents want to avoid the trauma of a broken marriage for their children and the associated fall-out on the other parent or I can only assume my former husband would have been able to try a bit harder at our marriage Peruivan.

You are comparing apples and pears in that very good post of yours - you describe the relationship between your daughter and her step-mother. That is surely independent of the relationship between you and her, as a step-mother? Indeed I can only assume that your daughter's step-mother didn't turn into a paragon of step-parenting at the same point as you had your epiphany re: how you should be? So clearly where the step-parent is a sane, compassionate human being they are able to divorce the two relationships (that is the one with their partners ex and the child/children of that partner) and treat any children appropriately.

And again your post highlights a chasm between your thinking and mine. I find it utterly bizarre that you would be 'grateful' to your daughters step-mother for behaving as she should, given she has made the choice to marry a man who had a child. To me that sounds as strange as for example when someone will say well at least he doesn't hit me when describing an emotionally abusive relationship.

No-one should need to be grateful to another for behaving within the bounds of common decency and social norms. I would however be furious if it were to be otherwise and my former husband would have a choice make between his children and his new partner. I make no bones about that. But grateful and obligated, no.

(Not drawing any similarities between the two scenarios before the Tag Team of wheresthe and jinglemums arrive to suggest I am comparing step-parents to abusive partners.)

I am also slightly confused as to the logic in your third paragrapgh if I am honest. My approach to what? Assuming that my children's father is able to care for them? That it is their home also? That the terms of the step-parents involvement is something the ex has no control over and as such needs to be agreed between the parent in the relationship and their new partner?

Finally - whilst your approach works for you, your daughter, your former husband and his new partner it is not the only approach which can be successful. So please recognise that.

Report
PeruvianFoodLover · 19/01/2015 07:52

No-one should need to be grateful to another for behaving within the bounds of common decency and social norms

caorunn I'm sorry if I have upset you - I now understand that we are approaching the same situation with fundamentally different values.

Unlike you, I am appreciative of anyone who is polite, respectful, kind and decent towards me - and even more so of people who behave like that towards my DD.
I don't expect common decency, and am always grateful when people (whoever they are) show me and DD respect. That is not to say that I accept disrespect or abuse, But I will feel gratitude for decency from someone who has not always behaved decently towards me - to do otherwise would be bearing a grudge, and I'm not one to do that.

If I now understand correctly, your attitude towards your DCs SM is the same as that towards other people in your life; you have an expectation of a standard of behaviour towards you and your DCs, which you feel no gratitude or thanks for.

Report
WannaBe · 19/01/2015 08:34

I think Caorran has been given an unnecessarily hard time on here from some. And while I can see that her raw feelings wrt the manner in which her relationship ended still cloud some of her thinking, I think that there is also a lot of logic behind her thinking. There is also IMO a difference between the need to be courteous to a stepparent purely on the basis they are now a part of the children's lives, and the need to feel grateful to step parents for tolerating/putting up with/allowing certain behaviors in their homes.

IMO if you marry someone with children, then you do so in the knowledge that those children are part of the agreement, and as such should be willing for those children to be in your life 24/7 if it came to that. I find it interesting that men who fail to accept children full-time when getting into a relationship with someone with kids are (rightly) criticised, however there seems to be a different understanding for step mums and more acknowledgement of the hard time it is being a step parent when they only tend to have the children in their lives for some of the time.

I think the hope should always be that an ex marries a nice person, because no-one wants their children to have a horrible step parent, not really. And I think we should be thankful for everyone who plays a positive role in our children's lives as they grow up, and plays a part in molding them to the person they will ultimately become. And in truth the number of people who will play an influencial role in their lives is far greater than we anticipate or accept sometimes, teachers, family, friends, parents of friends, friends of the family, and if a step parent plays a part of that role then that can only be a positive thing.

Report
redredholly · 19/01/2015 08:42

Also Peruvian it depends on whose home you regard the DSC as visiting. You clearly understand the 'other house' to be the DSM's home as much as it is your ExH's, and hence have an idea of your children being polite to her in her home and so forth (regardless of whether it is their home or not). Caorunn clearly sees the ExH's home as primarily his and their children's home, with the DSM having joined as the member of the household with least agency.

I have to say as a SM I couldn't cope with the latter - I need a home that's mine (as much as my partners). But it all depends on what's happened historically with property. I guess if it is the FMH then that does set the tone. Equally my DSc's mother's home is hers, a new place - she is the boss. But if my DH were paying mortgage payments on it or had originally helped design the kids' rooms there maybe he'd be inclined to be more pushy about what happened there now. I don't know.

Deffo Caorunn's situation is the one where the ExH and his new DW are more likely to split up.

Report
redredholly · 19/01/2015 08:46

WannaBe I think you're spot on except actually stepmums very rarely complain about taking on the children -- what they complain about is having their life made miserable by ex partners who refuse to let the next phase be positive and upbeat. I think stepdads get a lot less grief from nr dads.

Report
andtodaysusernameis · 19/01/2015 15:14

Yes, I made the choice to be in a relationship / marry a man with a child. Does that mean that my priorities, needs, aspirations now come second to those of the children? Not all the time, no. I am an equal adult in my relationship, I pay half the mortgage, I share the housework and the upkeep of our home. I am not and will not be relegated to second place in the affections or practical priorities of my partner simply because he has a child. I understand that there will be many occasions where the child’s needs come first, and rightly so, but I am important too, in my relationship, and sometimes what I want or need will come first.

And gratitude? I am grateful to my SS for being a mostly lovely child – I do not know his mum, but whatever difficulties she has caused me and my partner (and there have been many!) I can see she must be a good mum and I am grateful to her for raising a child that has good manners and is well behaved. I am grateful to my partner for not expecting too much of me as a step-parent, for allowing me to find my own way, for backing me up when my stepson is cheeky or naughty, for not expecting me to be a second class citizen in my own home. My partner is grateful to me for accepting his son into my life, for dealing with the inconvenience, mess and stress that a child brings, and the additional stress that is caused by his ex being in the picture. I would hope that regardless of how SS’s mum feels about me (and no I was not the OW but she has made it clear she resents me nonetheless), she is on some level grateful for the effort that I put into doing things with and for SS, that when he goes home with stories of ‘me and andtodays did this together, she took me to the shops and bought me a comic, she cooked my favourite for tea’ or whatever, she at least thinks ‘that’s nice’. Because I don’t have to do any of those things. My only responsibility as far as I see it is to facilitate my partner having a good relationship with his son by not getting in the way, anything else I choose to do is extra.

Caorunn asks why her ex would need support in parenting his children. I can tell you that if I chose NOT to support my partner in being a parent it would make his life very difficult indeed. I could be difficult about him having the car for PU and DO, I could refuse to pay for treats for my SS when he can’t afford it, I could choose not to watch SS for an hour whilst he pops to work to sort something critical out, I could refuse to be pleasant to SS while he’s in my home, I could ignore him when he wants someone to play with, when he falls over, when he needs help with his homework, when he’s sad over something and wants a cuddle and a man just won’t do. But I don’t.

But us stepparents do have a big influence as to how happy your children are in our homes, and regardless of how we all got there I think there is a duty on ALL the adults in the equation to make sure that the children are as happy as they can be in whatever the circumstances are. So Caorunn you may feel you owe the OW not even the least shred of common decency, and that is your right given your circumstances, I might well feel the same in your shoes. But I would be very wary that your attitude and actions don’t make the lives of your children any more difficult than they need to be – there may well come a point if you push her hard enough where she thinks ‘enough is enough’ and the way she feels about your children and treats them changes as a result. And your ex, her partner, may not necessarily take against her or leave her, because he might actually understand why she feels the way she does. He may choose to live with a difficult and less than ideal situation for everyone rather than leave the woman he loves. And it will be your children that suffer as well as her. I don’t think anyone’s saying you shouldn’t feel the way you do, it’s understandable, but there could be consequences for your children as a result of how you act, and I wouldn’t underestimate that.

This is of course, just my opinion.

Report
PeruvianFoodLover · 19/01/2015 15:37

I can tell you that if I chose NOT to support my partner in being a parent it would make his life very difficult indeed.

Well, exactly. Wanting your DCs stepmum to be a passive, inconsiderate "housemate" while a NRP is parenting is an odd expectation to have.

It does happen; I've known a stepmum who had nothing more than a superficial "polite good morning at breakfast" relationship with her husbands DCs. But when she and her DH split, the DCs still suffered greatly - because that hands-on step-mum was paying for half the mortgage, groceries and utility bills at what the DCs and their mum considered to be their dads house. When stepmum moved out, the quality of life the DCs had with dad dropped significantly; downsized home, no sky TV, cold winters and no treats. And guess who was the first to complain? The DC mother; who had insisted that her DCs were kept at arms length from their dads "tart". Is it any wonder that their marriage failed when the message she was receiving loud and clear was that she wasn't good enough to have a relationship with her DSC, but she was expected to provide them with the lifestyle their parents expected.

Even a hands off stepmum facilitates their spouse to "parent" - and as this thread (and others) has proved, it is often a thankless and unwelcome contribution to the DCs lives.

Report
Caorunn · 19/01/2015 20:49

redredholly - there are lots of posts on here where stepmothers complain about taking on the children. Lots. Now that maybe due to the behaviour of the children (normally pretty standard stuff but I get hard to deal with if the child is not yours) or due to the partner. Or indeed sometimes because they have initially thrown themselves into the 'parent role' and find it is hard. Because it is. Not always because there is some evil ex in the background making life hell for them. That is an easy target - and actually we have come full circle from the OP. Yes she had a right to annoyed - but with her partner. Nobody else.

All these examples of stepparents helping their partner - great as it should be. But don't assume that the children's, let's say, mother is either aware or assume she should be thankful. You have all provided example's where you are helping you partner- what if he didn't have you there? He would need to step up and do it himself. You are making his life easier - not that of his ex. So why should she be grateful? Yes it may be easier for the children; but those same children may well cope very well when living with a 'single' parent who doesn't have someone else picking up the slack/helping/bailing out. And cope just fine.

I have never suggested, quite the contrary intact, that the stepmother should be hands-off - what I have said is that the extent to which she chooses to involve herself in 'family life' with her new partner and his children is up to her new partner and her. The ex has no say in that at all. So can't be expected to reflect in awe of her greatness surely? The example of the stepmother taking the child out for a drink and a comic - I would much rather they were spending that time with their father so no I wouldn't think ah, that's nice. I would think why the hell was I missing my children so they could spend time with their dad when he couldn't be arsed to do so.

antodayyourusernameis - you highlight quite well the difference between a stepmother and a mother - I do expect my needs to come secondary to my children in pretty much most cases and I expect my husband to apply the same priorities. Because that is how we worked as a family (well I thought we did, perhaps not clearly given the OW but anyway). You don't. I find that strange but I guess understandable if you are tolerating them in your life only because you want a relationship with their father.

Peruvian - your description of me as having an expectation of behaviour is quite pejorative - I think of it otherwise. I assume decent behaviour from people until they show me otherwise. I don't skip through life being grateful nor do I expect others to be grateful if I act as a decent reasonable human being. Because that is actually the least any of us should expect. It may surprise you but I am perhaps one of the softest, easy going, good humoured people you can meet - and it takes a great deal to piss me off. However treat me or my family poorly (my standards aren't unexceptionally high so it takes a great deal to so) and there is no return for me.

And I am not sure who commented on my former husband perhaps not choosing to leave the OW if she started treating the children poorly I don't give a monkey's if he does or doesn't to be honest but the choice of my children staying in that environment would be removed from him. They are all getting to an age however where they would choose to talk with their feet anyway I would imagine and I would fully support them in doing so - if she became intolerable. But again I fail to see why my relationship with her (which is nil btw we have no contact at all) should influence her treatment of my children; or more importantly the children of the man she professes to love and has put a great deal of effort into building a relationship with. To the extent of infidelity and helping to dismantle a family unit in the process.

Report
WannaBe · 19/01/2015 21:19

the problem with thinking "why should the children be spending time with her/I be missing my children," does put the stepmum in a category of her own though, and that can never be seen as a positive thing. After all, when your dc are with their father would you have issue if they spent time alone with friends? family? (his) without him there? Because if not then having objections to them spending time with their stepmum paints her in a negative light which is based on your personal feelings rather than a reality.

I agree that the step parenting boards are full of posts about how hard it is to be a step parent, how the kids/the ex are making things so difficult when actually more often than not as someone said above it's the father (in most instances) who is the issue and being a disney parent/failing to discipline/failing to consider the reality of blending a family. I have unfortunately also seen it the other way around though where the new woman's children take precedence over their own children and they are pushed out in favour of their new family. It seems that middle ground is impossible to find.

And I wonder sometimes how much of the talk of the evil ex is real and how much is a projection by the dp and painting the ex as all evil means they don't need to face up to their own part in a previous split. Not always obviously, but it's clear that there are a lot of unhappy stepmums out there who are probably in the same unhappy relationships their step children's ex's left....

Report
needaholidaynow · 19/01/2015 21:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Caorunn · 19/01/2015 23:14

And I get that Wannabe which is why I would think it but not say it. I am only human. But actually the stepparent is in a category all of their own to be honest - they are not a family friend, an aunt, a grandparent but the significant other of a parent in a child's life. The role of which was previously filled by, again let's say for consistency on this thread, the child's mother. It is a unique relationship and it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Agreed needaholiday - but the bounds of her relationship with the stepchildren was something to be negotiated between her and her partner. The ex could insist or expect all she wanted but had no power, authority or a word used more than once on this thread agency within that new relationship.
The fault lies with the father who failed to agree a co-parenting model with his ex that worked for both him and his new partner.

Report
PeruvianFoodLover · 19/01/2015 23:48

caorunn you contradict yourself. On the one hand you say that a resident parent has no power or authority over the relationship between her ex and his spouse, and on the other you state openly that you would "remove his choice" as a parent to allow his spouse to be a part of your DCs lives if you disagreed with the way in which she interacted with them.

Whether you know it or not, you hold a great deal of power in your hands - the daily posts on MN are testimony to that.

Report
Caorunn · 20/01/2015 00:34

No I say that my children would choose to talk with their feet Peruvian and I would support them.

But actually yes if my husbands partner's behaviour treatment of my children was intolerable / unkind them then yes I would expect my former husband to make a choice or indeed depending on her behaviour remove that choice for him. Her treatment of my children is a very different thing to my placing constraints or dictating the level of her interaction (which was what was described up thread) - the two are very different things surely you can see that?

Report
needaholidaynow · 20/01/2015 06:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeruvianFoodLover · 20/01/2015 07:52

yes if my husbands partner's behaviour treatment of my children was intolerable / unkind them then yes I would expect my former husband to make a choice or indeed depending on her behaviour remove that choice for him.

Whether your DCs stepmums treatment is intolerable/unkind is subjective though, isn't it? What you decide is unreasonable, your DCs dad may consider is appropriate - but you'd "remove his choice", based on your (and your DCs) opinion.
You hold the "power" to dictate the level and nature of the interaction through your interpretation of her behaviour and willingness to undermine your ex's decision and judgement.

Report
TheJingleMumsRush · 20/01/2015 07:56

The OP is annoyed at her DP for not running it buy her...she's not annoyed at the kids Hmm

Report
WannaBe · 20/01/2015 08:21

caorran you say that your dc would vote with their feet. Thing is, you can't be absolutely sure of that.

If someone has a particular view of their ex/the incoming partner then it's easy to think that the children will ultimately see what you see and think the same. But thing is, the children have a different view of and relationship with the partner you are no longer married to, and as such they will make their own independent decisions. and it's also important to remember that the ex could have the same ideas and think that the children will ultimately see you in the same way he does and "vote with their feet." and thus children often get caught in the middle between two parents who they they have loyalty towards. (by saying "you" I am referring in general not to you specifically)

But, so often parents e.g. make derogatory comments about their ex to their children in the belief that the children will realise what they already know, and then take the decision to want to be with them instead, when actually all that generaly does is make the children bitter against the parent who waged war against their beloved mum/dad etc.

Report
Sorrybutilikekatie · 20/01/2015 08:46

I'm so sick of you trying to make out that I am annoyed at the children. That couldn't be further from the truth I love my stepchildren.

OP posts:
Report
PeruvianFoodLover · 20/01/2015 08:52

I'm not sure it's fair to place responsibility on a DC to "vote with their feet" in any event. They dont actually know what is best for them at that age and are not emotionally equipped to cope with the impact and consequences of their choices.

A few years ago, I employed a mid-teen who had been given the "choice" by the court as to whether or not to spend time with her NRDad. She knew that he wanted to see her, but also knew that her mum had been very hurt by his behaviour. I remember her sobbing on my shoulder that she wished the court had ordered she had to see him just like they had her younger sister - she wanted the adults in her life to protect her from the responsibility of hurtng one or other of her parents.

Report
sanityseeker75 · 20/01/2015 11:14

They dont actually know what is best for them at that age and are not emotionally equipped to cope with the impact and consequences of their choices.

This with bells on. Voting with their feet works both ways. I have older DSS (with huge back story) who at 14 decided he no longer wanted to see his dad with any regularity. His mother backed his choice he sent his dad abusive messages advising he was binning sol letters and did not want contact - he was given that choice and it was supported by his mom who had her own agenda. Result 5 years later - a child/young adult who struggles to find his place in the family, he is bitter, jealous and resentful of his siblings(half) who were younger and had court ordered contact and is often jealous and abusive towards them and about them because his dad must care more for them (despite DH messaging throughout the years several times inviting him round whenever he wants and to various family meet ups etc. In fact when we went on holiday last year with the kids he told everyone who would listen that his dad would not give him the same money he spent on the others (he works) and that he was no longer part of the family. He is now in a position that his younger DB does not know him and finds him scary and his DS does not want contact with him because she is sick of listening to his bitterness - voting with his feet worked really well for him and everyone concerned.

On the other hand DSD has learnt that her mom co-parents with her dad when it suits but still believes that she is the one that has the ultimate power and has often said if the do not want to come they do not have to, she sent them several texts over Christmas telling them they could go home which in the end DSD did not reply to as she dd not want to upset her mom by telling her she was more than happy where she was. This Saturday she sat with us at dinner time telling us she had told her mom lots of times recently that she would walked out if her mom did not ease up and sleep on the streets if need be, but she knows she has a home with us. Voting with her feet may not work well for her mom (whilst I think this was probably just a teenage strop). Problem is in a "normal" family unit there is the option of streets or family member but often are forced to work the issue out with parents.

In blended if they think they can vote with their feet they may well do - without even a real reason just because they can but does this really help them be responsible adults that learn how to compromise and deal with issues that arise as part of everyday life?

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

WannaBe · 20/01/2015 12:30

agree that at a young age children can't possibly comprehend the possible implications of their choices. Even adults get that wrong - how many threads on here do we see from people who have gone nc with a relative only to have doubts when that person is dying/has died and then not knowing how to act and it being too late because they've had no contact for years....

And of course as a parent it's difficult when you think your child is unhappy in a situation and you just want to tell them that of course they don't have to go and can stay with you instead, but at a young age that child is different to the adult they will become in years to come, so if e.g. a ten year old is permitted to not have a relationship with their father because they don't like the new setup, in eight years time when they're eighteen and an adult it's too late to undo the eight years of no contact when they were growing and developing into that young adult. They no longer known their father and the father has missed out on vital stages of their growing up

while I do believe that children have the right to voice their concerns and the things that make them unhappy, I also think that as adults it is up to us to guide them in terms of not making snap decisions which could have life long implications. And regardless of personal feelings, children should be encouraged to have a positive relationship with all the people who enter their lives, including step parents. Those step parents may be in their life for the next 50 years, may be parent to their future siblings, nobody benefits from a child being alienated from a stepparent .

Report
Petal02 · 20/01/2015 13:39

They don’t actually know what is best for them at that age, and are not emotionally equipped to cope with the impact and consequences of their choices

You’re not kidding. DH’s daughter is now approx. 24 yrs old, he hasn’t really seen her in 9-ish years. They had a parent/teenager row about staying up late on school nights, DSD refused to see her Dad because of it, and the ex gleefully fanned the flames. She threatened to request increased mainteinance because DSD wasn’t spending any nights with her Dad, although she never went through with it. However the ex soon realised she’d shot herself in the foot, as she could no longer spend EOW solely with her ‘new children’ (that she’d had with her second husband). But the damage was done, DSD (encouraged by her mother) had sent vile letters to DH, called the police (!), and had made abusive phone calls to DH’s parents. The whole thing was a mess, and even if DSD had wanted to make up with her Dad, I suspect she was too proud/embarrassed to do so.

So fast forward 9 years, positions have become entrenched, DSD/DH had one awkward coffee meeting approx. 18 months ago, during which neither side knew what to say to the other, and that’s been about it (other than requests for money and threats over legal action). Whether this will ever change, I don’t know – but I’m sure that at age 15, DSD didn’t have all this in mind.

But rather than allow DSD to cease contact with her Dad, the ex should have been firmer with her, popped her in the car and driven her over, then things would have probably been resolved over the space of a weekend, rather than turning into a decade’s stand-off.

Report
TheJingleMumsRush · 20/01/2015 15:22

Some sad stories there. It's a shame when the one or all of the kids start seeing dad less and less. It's even worse when the mum does nothing to stop it and help the children. It will all come back to bite them in the arse in the end.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.