DSD and DSS saying they don't want to come anymore - help please

[impatienceisavirtue]

Sorry very long.

Horrific weekend last time with DSD and DSS. One of the most stressful weekends I've had in a while - especially bearing in mind I'd just had an early MC. They were rude, very badly behaved, trashed the house, ungrateful and awful to my kids. We actually had to go home in the middle of a trip out for something we needed urgently for the next day as they were so badly behaved. I am not ashamed to say I was glad to see the back of them. I can only imagine how distressing it was for DH.

His exw continues to reinforce this behaviour and thinks it's funny. She actively tries to encourage disney parenting by him but this obviously isn't in anyone's best interests, for her either. He is great with them but there is only so much we can do at the moment when every step forward is erased as soon as they go home.

Anyway. It turns out DSD had been using the home phone to ring her mum many times a day to tell her how awful it was (...not mentioning that she was getting told off because of her horrendous behaviour). Also without asking permission to use the phone.

When we dropped them off EXW went ballistic and called DH unfairly all the names under the sun for not pandering.

Following on from that the next day he received a call to say that they do not want to come to ours anymore. I think it is a mix of the kids trying to manipulate us to some degree - we beg them to come and then when they get there we wouldn't dare deign to (rightly so) deal with their behaviour, and his EXW actively encouraging them to say this to upset DH.

Total minefield and I really could do with some honest answers. What do we do? They would normally come up this Friday. I have said I think we should say that is fine, we would have liked them to come but it is their choice. EXW said he "needs to do something about it" and should basically call them and beg them to come. I think long term this is a mistake and that we need to hold our ground now, as hard as it is for him. EXW will look like an idiot if she has encouraged this and promised the kids that it will go their way and it doesn't, and she'll also be begging us to take them by the end of the week as she cadges them off all week in clubs so she doesn't have to deal with them.

I'm not trying to be horrible, I just think that it's the right thing to do or we'll be making things worse. For me it is unbearable at the moment when they are here. I'm exhausted by the time the weekend rolls around, v stressful job, condition that causes total exhaustion, the upset of the MC, and various other things. I actually dread the stress. But they are just children at the end of the day and I adore DH and will stand by whatever he wants to do.

BTW I am nice to the children and don't treat them differently to my own or make them feel excluded when they are here.

Any advice please?

That's great that maintenance isn't a part of it - at least you can't get beaten with that particular stick!

We’d often said to DSS, that he didn’t need to adhere to Thur-Sun EOW, but the ex made it very clear that if he didn’t, she would revisit the maintenance payments. Although this was a very one-sided situation; if we DSS for extra, it’s not like we’d claim a rebate (!) but if we had him for a minute less, she’d have the calculator ready.

I remember DH arguing that the ‘cost element’ of an evening’s visit was actually the food we served, and if DSS chose to go home after dinner rather than staying overnight with us, it didn’t actually cost the ex any extra. But she was stickler for applying rules (if they were of benefit to her) so the situation had to stand. None of this made for a sensible arrangement.

Ah I wondered how long it would be before the OP was asked if she was the OW.
Next it will be you knew what you were getting into!

Not read everything but impatience don't even try and argue with the majority on here who will tell you to mind your own business and that helping your dh to parent his kids is not your jib. They must have very cold homes

I agree with you that as a family unit you are just as responsible as he is for guiding the children and yes it is ultimately Him who needs to make final calls you must be involved if harmony is to exist

My dsc's have different rules here today home and his ex is very similar to what you are describing so you have my sympathy!!

Fwiw I wouldn't back down, I would say ok well that is their choice, we will be around if they change their minds and leave it at that.

Good luck

Shoppingfrenzy of course you will disagree with me as you are posting from a parent's perspective.

My replies were from the DCs perspective as a child growing up in a similar position. I can completely see where these DCs are coming from. I asked about the background to the OP's relationship with her DH as if their mother feels aggrieved about it, the DCs may also be aware and that could explain their behaviour.

OP's DH should be doing all he can to make sure his DC are not alienated from him. Petty rules do not help that. If the OP's DC are being physically hurt by her DH's DC then he should have contact with them without them there period. Not fair for either side.

Are you suggesting he lives somewhere else at the weekends insanity?

Or that he has them one at a time as it is mostly each other they fight?

Also both sets of children would be upset at not ever seeing each other - they see each other as siblings.

Our relationship is not an issue to the kids - they both say often how happy they are that he met me actually.

Which rules are petty? Other than the bloody phone issue. Which by the way we never even mentioned to her when we found out!
mymiracle it is definitely doable this way. My exh and I had a lot of very bad teething problems but now we all co-parent and he is happy for my DH to have a say as their stepdad.

mymiraclebubba whilst I agree that this affects OP and that her and her DH must remain aligned - I don't think that them using "we" or her being involved in the actual delivery of these solutions/ conversations is a good idea at all. It gives the kid's mum too much ammunition, and if the kids are under pressure as it is - two parents are quite enough Also, for OP, it isn't helpful to get too involved as if/ when DH has a wobble (and he will at some stage) it is very easy to feel let down and disappointed.

It's hard to explain but I suppose what I'm saying is that it's crucial that her DH views her as an important equal adult and his number one. But not that the children are encouraged to see her as anything other than whatever they want to. As long as they respect her of course.

That's the heartbreak of stepparenting. But you do have to protect yourself. And the kids need to see their dad parenting and setting boundries all of his own doing so they dont just think it's wicked old step mum pulling his strings. Even though these children get on well with their SM (OP) and there are no problems there - these could arise at some stage in the process.

Insanityandbeyond But where does a rule become not "petty"? The sad thing about alienation is that you can do "everything you can" to make sure it doesn't happen but your life becomes a little (and please don't take this flippantly) akin to that of a wife with an abusive husband. You can tread on egg shells and try everything in your power not to upset the applecart but if they need an excuse to fly in to a rage, they will find one

Does his ex-wife have a reason, even just in her own mind, to make things difficult?

I'm sure she does - in the same way as all the dads that are slated on MN have a reason in their own minds for being that way?

Why is it that a difficult mother is given the benefit of the doubt, whereas a difficult father is called a wanker, twat, arse and other such names?

The advice on this thread scares me. A child who has experienced the emotional turmoil of a blended family is not best placed to advise on how to parent a child in that same situation.
No matter how experienced a child is, no matter how much they remember about how they felt or what they wanted, they cannot possibly know the sacrifices made or damage done to the relationships between the adults in their life.
Parents who blindly fulfil the needs and wants of their DCs with no thought or consideration for the impact on others in the family usually find themselves alone.

Insanity - you remind me of my DHs DS. His solution to the emotional conflict he feels about our blended family was for me to be out of the house during his contact periods (but for my DD to remain). What he didn't know, and what you cannot know about your parents/step parents, is the potential impact that fulfilling his demand will have.

As my DH explained to his DS, if he agrees to his DS demand, then ultimately there would be no home for DS to visit, because I would leave and the house would be sold - DH would live alone in a small flat/house that he could afford and his DS wouldn't have the bedroom, gaming space, garden etc that he wants to continue to enjoy without me being here.

Giving simplistic advice to the OP based on your own experience fails to consider the wider picture. My DH has also had telephone use issues between his DD and her Mum during contact. Both his DD and her mum objected to our house-rules and used them as justification not to visit. DH could have relaxed the petty rules about his DDs mobile phone use - but that would have put her at risk in other ways - her risky social media use ultimately resulted in death threats leading to police involvement. His DD thought his rules were petty, just as you do - but DH had put them in place to protect her from risks she didn't understand or acknowledge.

Not read everything but impatience don't even try and argue with the majority on here who will tell you to mind your own business and that helping your dh to parent his kids is not your jib. They must have very cold homes

Interesting, then, mymiracle, that this is not the advice being given by the majority here. Maybe that is because your situation and attitude was different - you didn't like the advice you got, but it might be helpful for you to consider why you were given it.

the advice i was given was BS and based on everyone as usual spouting that i had no business being involved and defending the DM and automatically assuming that i had an agenda - wrong. i want to protect my DSC's from the abuse they are getting and i will support my DP however i see fit.

great...

miracle The advice given on MN is a mix of personal experience, professional knowledge and yes, some uninformed bigoted opinion.

If the majority are saying the same thing in response to a particular post, then why would you assume that they are all speaking as uninformed observers, with no experience or professional knowledge?

Surely the professionals can't ALL be wrong?

Frog - great post at Tue 11-Mar-14 22:50:37

PS - let's not derail this thread for OP.....

Of course they should ask before using the phone. Who the hell does she think she is! Shall I come around to all your houses and phone my Mum from your home phones?

Quite agree with the my house, my rules stance else they'll continue to walk all over you all and continue to treat you all like crap.

If they choose not to visit then they're not going to be able to collect their easter eggs/ birthday presents/ christmas presents etc are they because you sure wont be buying people you dont ever see presents are you?

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

Sorry - mainly irrelevant but I am totally shocked that: a teenager uses a house phone mine hardly even use a house phone but use their mobiles instead.

Impatience I feel your frustration here. I am in a situation with my long term boyfriends dc, where they are starting to threaten this.

Reasons; hostile, bitter mother and a father who is threatened every week that he will lose them and told he is a bad father, he does this, he does that. Bottom line is hostile, bitter mother holds all the cards and all the influence. He is happy, she is not. Everything is done right for these kids, finances, home life, frequent quality time with dad, so what to do........

It's not surprising the burden it puts on our relationship and the stress it places on him. In the past through fear he has said, 'you must come, please come, I am your father, I love you, I miss you'. MISTAKE. Huge.

Now when this shit happens, he says, call your mum. I love you, I want to spend time with you, but you don't want to be here, so I accept that. And it is working an absolute treat. :)

You cannot let children, step children or your birth children bully and control you. And if you look at the long game ahead, your children will be adults very, very soon and will have a whole lifetime ahead of them. You will want to be a part of that and their life with their kids one day. So letting go a bit, can teach them a valuable lesson and if they really need space and are not just playing mum's games, it can give them what they need to.

Interesting about how the phone comment has evoked so many comments! In our house, yes my dc always will ask. It's manners.

Also to add, a child constantly phoning or texting another parent while they are at their other parent's (whether you consider it right or wrong) can be a) fine, if the relationships are all intact and positive or b) intrusive, counter productive and problematic where there are problems already.

I don't do it to my dc when they are at their dad's and when my boyfriends' ex wife constantly contacts the kids when they are with him it leads to a breakdown in behaviour of all proportion. Fact.

Brilliant posts shey and I agree. My dd asked her dad, in front if me, not to contact her so much when she's here because it's makes her sad and makes things hard because she remembers that she missed him (has an old soul, that one) and thankfully he took note because I heard him say "daddy missed you, it's quiet here" a few times and it really unsettled her and made her feel guilty about something she had no control over.

It is unhelpful to constantly intrude and undermine the parent they are spending time with by constant protracted contact. Dsds mum would always spoil a family lunch, bedtime, day trips (even a cinema trip once when dsd had eight missed calls and a telling off for "making mummy worry" - she was 12 and was with her dad)

I always say to my dd "have a fabulous time with daddy and SM and call whenever you like" then leave her to it. He says the same and we'll each have maybe one call over a weekend from a happy little girl just checking in. Sometimes we'll each ask her if she'd like to call the absent parent (because if she forgets we know the other will miss her) but it's a gentle prod and I she says "no", that's fine.

We may miss our kids when they're with their other parent but their needs come first.

My dd asked her dad, in front if me, not to contact her so much when she's here because it's makes her sad and makes things hard because she remembers that she missed him

My DHs DS asked his mum for similar space once. She screamed at him, told him she didn't believe he meant it and accused DH of coaching him.

Some parents just can't cope with the notion that their DCs can manage, emotionally and physically, without them.

It's very sad, my dsd would never have dared to ask her mum not to call, she would get the same reaction as your dss got frog.