DSD and DSS saying they don't want to come anymore - help please

[impatienceisavirtue]

Sorry very long.

Horrific weekend last time with DSD and DSS. One of the most stressful weekends I've had in a while - especially bearing in mind I'd just had an early MC. They were rude, very badly behaved, trashed the house, ungrateful and awful to my kids. We actually had to go home in the middle of a trip out for something we needed urgently for the next day as they were so badly behaved. I am not ashamed to say I was glad to see the back of them. I can only imagine how distressing it was for DH.

His exw continues to reinforce this behaviour and thinks it's funny. She actively tries to encourage disney parenting by him but this obviously isn't in anyone's best interests, for her either. He is great with them but there is only so much we can do at the moment when every step forward is erased as soon as they go home.

Anyway. It turns out DSD had been using the home phone to ring her mum many times a day to tell her how awful it was (...not mentioning that she was getting told off because of her horrendous behaviour). Also without asking permission to use the phone.

When we dropped them off EXW went ballistic and called DH unfairly all the names under the sun for not pandering.

Following on from that the next day he received a call to say that they do not want to come to ours anymore. I think it is a mix of the kids trying to manipulate us to some degree - we beg them to come and then when they get there we wouldn't dare deign to (rightly so) deal with their behaviour, and his EXW actively encouraging them to say this to upset DH.

Total minefield and I really could do with some honest answers. What do we do? They would normally come up this Friday. I have said I think we should say that is fine, we would have liked them to come but it is their choice. EXW said he "needs to do something about it" and should basically call them and beg them to come. I think long term this is a mistake and that we need to hold our ground now, as hard as it is for him. EXW will look like an idiot if she has encouraged this and promised the kids that it will go their way and it doesn't, and she'll also be begging us to take them by the end of the week as she cadges them off all week in clubs so she doesn't have to deal with them.

I'm not trying to be horrible, I just think that it's the right thing to do or we'll be making things worse. For me it is unbearable at the moment when they are here. I'm exhausted by the time the weekend rolls around, v stressful job, condition that causes total exhaustion, the upset of the MC, and various other things. I actually dread the stress. But they are just children at the end of the day and I adore DH and will stand by whatever he wants to do.

BTW I am nice to the children and don't treat them differently to my own or make them feel excluded when they are here.

Any advice please?

i think asking to use the phone before using it is a fair rule tbh, mine ask usually.
op does sound a bit ...off ,,, about the SC's and their mother though cannot put my finger on it .

I think that the house rule is unreasonable and unfair to her DSCs.

There are things my DSSs are allowed to do that DD isn't - for the simple reason that DD lives with both her parents and the DSSs don't.

Bonsoir they do have their own mobiles. DSS has an iphone we gave him and DSD has a phone we gave her - that is never charged though as she's a typical kid!

They are not asking for permission to ring their mother - that is totally not the issue. They need to ask permission to use the phone. We have never said no. You may do things differently in your house and that's fine but you're being a bit rude now.

Nigella you can't put your finger on it because you're imagining something sinister that isn't there out of a post where someone fairly distraught over a difficult situation is asking for help and advice - for the sake of the children involved more than anything. You can't put your finger on it because it's not there.

maybe, but you are very negative about their mother aren't you? you even seem to know what she does when you are not there.

Op, sorry to hear about your MC.

Your post sounds to me like someone at the end of their tether and is asking for help is all. Others will like to make that into something it isn't. And your phone rule is totally reasonable. You are treating all kids the same that way. As for the dsc not wanting to come (and if their mum isn't going to help), at that age I would say, like other posters have, it's up to them, let them know they are welcome and will be missed. I'm sure mum will soon be on board

How is Bonsoir being rude? She's just reiterating her point and as you keep addressing her directly surely that's to be expected? I think she's made some valuable points especially about different rules as the children's situations are different. Not rude at all.

SM are always told not to treat sc differently as that is damaging. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Of course you have to treat DSCs differently. When DSS2 pongs, I have to get DP to talk to him and deal with it. When DD pongs, I chase her into the shower and scrub her . You just cannot have the same rules set in stone for both your own DC and your DSCs - that is how you create problems.

I disagree with Bonsoir about the phone, and don't see anything sinister in this at all. I would expect all the children in our house to check if it was ok to use the house phone - it sounds like it's just a house rule.

Both my DSSs use mobiles to talk to their mum while they're here, but there is a world of difference between them calling her to have a chat about their day, touch base with her, than them using the phone as a manipulation tactic to play their dad off against their mum.

We have on occasion had a similar issue here with DSS1. He has a mobile, which he can use to contact his friends/his mum. However, if he has a problem with something that DP or I have done (ie. we have told him off, or he is facing a consequence of an action that he doesn't like), then it is not helpful to phone his mum to moan about it - she was not there, has not heard the full story, and would get his "version" of events which would be rather biased... For example, DSS1 recently went out with DP, and they fell out over DSS's behaviour. DSS1 sent his mum over 40 texts moaning about DP, but didn't even try to speak to DP, just refused to engage with him and had a major strop/tantrum. This sounds similar to what the OP is facing. This isn't "normal" use of a telephone, it becomes an attempt to manipulate using a telephone.

We are lucky in that DSS's mum sees through this, and communicates with us, and we are all encouraging DSS to bring up any issues directly with DP rather than to her as a third party who wasn't there! OP, it doesn't sound as though your DSS' mum is as sensible, or as aware that there may be manipulation at play. Or maybe she actively likes this.

I don't think your DP should beg them to come. However, he could make it quite clear that he would love them to come, but when they come to his, they need to abide by the rules of his house.

I certainly don't see how him taking them out for a lovely day out would help anything, other than for them to see reward for their behaviour.

Well it's quite clear what the difference is I would have thought. Bonsoir's dd does not need to ask to use the phone as she lives with both of her parents, so she'd be using it to phone mates etc, agree permission should me sought. The SC wish to contact their other parent as they do not live with both, permission to contact other parent should not be sought.

Nigellas I am being negative about the EXW. Where I am making suppositions I have made it clear they are such and not fact HOWEVER there are enough times when we know for a fact what happens when were not there, and she has admitted it that they are educated guesses. She also says some of these thing in front of us. Shes not the devil incarnate but I do feel that some of her approaches are less than helpful and can be damaging to the children long term. That is just how I feel about it.

Sparkly It is getting a bit rude now. The first couple of times before it was cleared up that the kids all have the same rules, fine. But to keep insisting that our personal choices regarding something as mundane as asking permission to do something are wrong and unfair because its not the way someone else does it and completely missing the point of the OP is a bit rude and its not helping. Everyone makes different choices with things like that and it doesnt mean Im a bad stepmother or DH is a bad father based on one tiny point in a very long rambling post and its time to let it go now I think. I was at the end of my tether and venting somewhere anonymously so that I do keep my cool where it matters. I actually now wish I hadnt asked which isnt really helpful.

TheMumsRush thank you hopefully we are getting in a tizz over nothing and theyre just bluffing and well get a call before Friday - Im just worried itll go on for a while

If you kids pong, dc or dsc. The rule is the same, get them clean, doesn't matter who gets them to do it.

Yes, and if a DC is unhappy he/she is allowed to speak to his/her mother immediately. Same rule for DCs and DSCs. Implementation is a bit different, however.

Well maybe the lack of flexibility and arguably unnecessary rules you have in place are what is leading to resentment and conflict. To be honest you seem very set on how things she'd be and maybe that's giving them a lot to rebel against.

Bonsior, you are entitled to your opinion, you are not however entitled to have that opinion automatically respected

shoppingfrenzy I completely agree - that is exactly the difference. The purpose of the calls were not to chat, they were to play one parent off against the other. Which I think is why she didn't ask to use it - not that we'd have said no or quizzed her on why she wanted to call her, we'd have just said sure. I wish she was as reasonable as your DH's exw - would be much healthier for the children!

It has happened before, she will be text/call her mum whilst she is here coming out with wildly different versions of reality. It really isn't a huge issue that she used the house phone without asking to do it this time. It was a passing comment as it irked a little bit at the time. It's not the problem, the problem is the content of the call.

OP FWIW you sound totally reasonable to me.

Keep the lines of communication open, get DH to tell his children that he loves and misses them. Bt don't allow them to manipulate the situation by begging and pleading with them. Your house rules should remain consistent and fair, which by the sound of it they are.

Your DSD is clearly unhappy when she is at your house, isn't she, OP?

I don't think the rules are all that unecessary - don't batter other children being the main issue. I am a being too firm on that one? I can't see that I am. I can't see how I can be flexible on it either.

You really are totally missing the point and focusing on one minor thing here. We are pretty laidback - but not completely rule free and chaotic.

She would have been allowed to speak to her mother immediately (even if we had known she was calling to cause trouble) so I am missing your point.

Why are you being so argumentative? How is it helping the discussion?

Thank you lottie

Bonsoir no she's not actually as a general rule, she just doesn't like being told off. Which has instigated this.

I think you sound really controlling and far too caught up in what may or may not be going on when they are with their mother. If you just were a bit more hands off and stopped trying to force things you'd probably find less conflict. Anyway I won't post again. Hope it all works out one way or another.

shoppingfrenzy Tue 11-Mar-14 11:45:09 Both my DSSs use mobiles to talk to their mum while they're here, but there is a world of difference between them calling her to have a chat about their day, touch base with her, than them using the phone as a manipulation tactic to play their dad off against their mum.

This is absolutely spot-on.

No, DSC don't usually like being told off. I tell my DSSs off very little and only for extreme misdemeanours (of which there are few). Otherwise I leave DP to reign in their behaviour.

Having said that, they are very respectful of me and my standards.

The misdemeanours are pretty extreme. And no, I'm not talking about the phone thing.

Throwing each other into shop displays - extreme IMO. Punching a seven year old in the stomach - extreme IMO.

Once more for those in the quiet seats. This isn't about me or how they feel about me. There is no issue there. This is about them being told off when they are here - which is of course generally done by DH.

I really don't appreciate being made out to be a wicked stepmother type when it's inaccurate.

I'm not "caught up" with what's going on while they're at their mothers. I'm caught up in getting to the root of the problem so that we can work on it.

Blimey!

*cheap seats