letter to an alienating mother

[itstillhurts]

A message
Talking badly about your ex-p to your children is wrong and that includes talking about money because you are NOT objective at all about it. You are not just "telling the children the truth" you are actually telling them your truth and if your truth is that you hate your ex-p for various reasons and that in your mind you are being treated badly what you are actually doing is being toxic and poisonous and alienating your children from their other parent. You are making them feel that they have to align with you and that there are strings attached on your love - ie, that they "take your side". Its as if you are saying "yes I know you love [other parent} and of course I think that is great but I really think you should know x, y and z about them before you proceed any further". In my view you are a CRAP parent for doing this. I never thought you were crap in any other way but right now the way I am feeling I have decided that this fact alone makes you CRAP. I have a child of my own and I swear on her life I will NEVER come between her and her father - of course it would be easy for me to fill her head with any adult issues that I might have and misuse my position of power but that would be WRONG and NOTHING changes the fact that it would be WRONG.

FWIW you don't actually hurt your ex-P any more. He has already had the worst hurt any parent could have, he had it years ago when this first started happening and he first realised that his child (a Daddy's boy through and through) wasn't allowed to love both his parents and had a made a choice that you were the one he needed to please. He went through the range of emotions: hurt, confusion, shock , anger, grief and now a kind of resignation and apathy. For the last 5 years he has stood there and taken it, taken the nasty words the accusations of things done to Mummy that were not even true (unable to argue as that would be calling you a liar and why stoop to your level), he has had the tears and tantrums, had the phone put down, heard the stories of what his son says about him to other people (funnily enough all the "bad" things are related to you and money!!) but he has never flinched, never shed a tear in front of his son, never faltered, never responded in kind. His son always knows that his Dad is there for him and funnily enough his Dad is still the person he tends to call in a REAL crisis despite everything. That is because he is a PROPER parent, proper because his love is not conditional on his child jumping hoops for him. Your actions have been WRONG and MISGUIDED and most of all have been UNFAIR on your son and caused him huge angst & sorrow but I don't hope that your son ever realises in future what you have done to him because I actually care about him and. neither his father or me would ever see anything good in him rejecting you.

All the alienated parent can ever do is hope that one day the child realises that there were never any strings attached to their love but if this never happens then so be it. Your ex-p never really stood a chance with his son it doesn't matter what he actually does as you are always there to ruin it with your poison and your guilt trips. The fact that a child who adored his Daddy now professes to hate him (well that goes up and down depending on how angry you are with your ex-P that week) is actually NOTHING to do with his relationship with his father (and any normal ups and downs between a teen and their parent) but is 100% to do with his relationship with you and his constant need to prove his love for you. You really can't see that can you.

And isn't it funny that your other child just refuses to play ball and still loves his father deeply. No doubt he misses out on a lot of the special "hate [x]" bond that you and your other son have but I personally have such admiration for his strength of character and his innate understanding that he loves both parents equally and doesn't need to makes a choice. Of course he gets upset at hearing his Dad slagged all the time at home and has confided as much (and yes I find it funny that you are so disrespectful to his feelings) but I told him years ago not to worry about it, I said that we are not bothered by it and that it is not his Mummy's fault it was just an adult thing and told him not to let it hurt him & just let it wash over him - that was actually a lie - of course it does bother us. But we put our own feelings aside for his sake - believe it or not this is a common theme in good parenting. Maybe that's something you could have considered doing yourself….??

Getting this out helps me feel better - I can't say these words to anyone in real life and I love my step children very much and just find it all so SAD even after all these years.

By the way they have now been split up for 9 years. the first 3-4 years this was still going on but the closeness between father and son saw them through. Add to the mix a child entering the emotional danger zone of pre-pubescence together with some broken contact etc, more lies about money (he was told we were paying no maintenance even when we were paying lots of maintenance and this theme has continued) and you get the picture.

I don't actually hate this woman and would normally never say she was a bad mother but on days like today I think back to everything I have witnessed her subject her son to about his Dad (and there has been a lot!) and just feel so hurt and angry and helpless

broken contact wasn't our choice of course!

contact still goes on against son's will We are of the view that he is old enough now to choose when he comes to stay but funnily his mother actually insists on him coming (unhappy) no doubt because she isn't wild about never getting time to herself without a moody teen (fair enough) but she then tells him that his Dad is forcing it.

When he visits of his own accrod like during the week after school (happily may I add) she doesn't like it much and we usually find the ante is upped on the alienation. Can't win!

OMG - how true this rings! The only difference is - it has been going on for 19 years! But I have a great relationship with dsd - now 22, and so does her dad, but that doesn't stop the mother.

But I take it that in the case of that step daughter she never went though a phase of professing to "hate" her Dad. In our case the other child has remained oblivious to it although admittedly it was the older child who really had to deal with most of the burden of being his mother's "confidante" over the years so it was much easier on the younger to escape it.

Funnily despite all of this I have a good relationship with this DSS, but there is a wall that often goes up, like now, when his mother is angry about something or when it seems that he has to prove something to her. My hubby just refuses to let it get to him now but it still gets to me sometimes.

and she would insist that she has done everything in her power to "promote" contact of course!!! as far as she is concerned she is not badmouthing his dad she is just "telling him the truth"!! therefore she is innocent!!

No she did profess to hate him. She is the only child from their relationship so it made it hard on her. Her mother went of with dh best mate (best man etc at wedding) so I feel some of it is guilt (well - maybe not, just feeling a bit generous at the moment) but dsd still feels obliged to go with what she does or says - even though she left home 4 years ago.

Things became much better with dsd when she went to uni, the 3-4 years before that were not good!

that's good to know Pindy. I do sometimes worry whether this will ever change. He is fiercely loyal to her (which is nice really) but always tells us that she never bad mouths Dad in front of him (and is basically perfect), he also jumps on his brother if he ever says anything which he doesn't approve of in reference to his mother. But then we hear from other people all the bad things he says about his Dad to them (and he freely tells other people that his mother has told him). He is about 16 now things have been like this since he was about 11. We have ups and downs, this week is a downer :(

The incidents of her twisting him are just endless I could write a book. But its all done in a way that she would be convinced she had never done anything wrong.

I know that we can't control it at all, that it is pointless fighting a losing battle. and we don't ever get involved these days (DH has already done the grieving for a beautiful relationship and sees little point in getting further worked up now, he has learnt to fight it just makes it worse) but it can be tricky knowing all of this is going on and how to best handle it sometimes. Dh does very well these days he just takes it on the chin whereas in teh early days he tried to actually control it (pointlessly may I add!!)

Thanks its nice to hear your experience got a bit better as child gained independence. In our case DSS is VERY dependent on mother for various reasons and I expect this also plays its part.

Why have you changed your name?

Your post has totally irritated me, not sure why, but it has.

why has it irritated you?

Changed my name because I don't like talking about my family in detail on these boards in case somebody knows me in RL

If you talk to your kids about their father not paying enough maybe that is why it has irritated you because you might feel justified in your case and not see it as wrong. Not saying that you do and definitely not saying that your ex pays you enough (I don't know your story) just guessing.

and before anybody else jumps on your high horse Dad in this case has always seen kids loads and regular as clockwork in 9 years since the split and paid for lots of things on top of maintenance (although of course she would dispute that!), and was a SAHD before the split.

But even if he hadn't been like this I still think talking constantly to your kids about how "bad" their Dad is cannot be right. As a mother your kids are going to believe you, you could tell them the sky is yellow and they would think it was.

In this case, both parties are remarried with new children, the situation is much more workable than the majority of splits and I would call it "shared parenting". Things should be much better but she insists on going on talking about all the terrible things he does to her(which I would deny he does in the first place although of course she is entitled to her opinion) to the children . Dad (my hubby) is totally over the badmotuhing, he doesn't even care any more, he will continue to do what he thinks is right, respond in kind and continue to see his kids and be there for them and ignore all this rubbish. He knows he is not perfect and people will always be bale to find fault but he also knows that he is not a bad parent. We are about to pay her a big wad of cash soon not because we have to but because we are going to come into money (not something that has happened to us before much!), it is not money that would normally be classed as "income" but we think it is the right thing to do. Will it make a skerrick of difference to her and what she tells the kids about us? No, because it never has made a difference, whatever we do she will still find a problem with it.

When you split from somebody your opinion of them and everything they do is 100% subjective. If you think somebody is always wrong then that is your reality and nobody & nothing will change this. That is just why it is wrong to burden your children with that crap because it is YOUR issue, not theirs and because it is about somebody that they love. That sort of action can only ever be seen by outsiders as an attempt (albeit probably subconsciously) to transfer your dislike and grievance with that person to your children. It might be ok to do this about strangers, ex-friends etc but IMO it is unforgivable to do it about the other parent.

I also hate hearing people (and this goes for Dads or mums or stepparents) syaing "they will learn the turth when they are older". Sorry why?? Why is it a positive thing that when the kids get older they have to suddenly "realise" that one parent is right and one parent is wrong. What crap, once again it is parents (or step parents) treating it like some sort of competition, a competitiion that IMO the kids always lose because where is the winning for a kid (or a young adult) in having to choose one of their parents at the expense of a relationship with the other.

Wasn't aware that I had jumped on my high horse!

I just found your post mildly irritating, now I'm finding you bloody annoying.

jumped on high horse was an unfortunate choice of words but you did tell me you found my post iritating without giving any reasons.

have you sent this letter?

if she really is so poisonous she isnt going to take any notice and whats worse it might make matters worse. You seem very angry about it all, have you ever spoken to a counsellor aboput it? i think it may be more constructive way of you dealing with how hurt you feel

I think you'll find I said I wasn't sure why.

I would never ever send the letter or say this to anybody in RL.

Rickman I am sorry I made the high horse comment I would love you to think about why this annoys you becuase it is helpful to hear other views.

The counselling thing is something someboyd else once suggested years ago when it was all still fresh and I was feeling hurt and angry. Since then I learnt not to be angry and DH has been not angry. This has helped defuse the situation hugely (when one party stops being angry is is much harder to keep conflict alive). I try extremely hard to see her point of view and have been very understanding for last few years. But for some reason an incident this week has opened up old wounds. I would prefer to go back to not feeling angry as I have said before i do not think she is a bad person or bad mother in any other way and to a large extent I understand that it is human nature and many many people do it (men and women). I guess it just hurts to know that after all the effort made to stop the conflict and be positive that this is still going on and affecting my DSS.

But I will get over it, posting on here was designed to help me do just that.

I don't know really, I think it's because you sound so self righteous.

My kids are aware that their dad doesn't give me much money, because there is stuff that they want and I just can't afford to buy it. I refuse to be the bad guy all the time. Why should fathers get the option of doing what they like, not supporting their kids and then getting a big old clap on the back for it?

I understand but how self righteous do you think she sounds to me telling everybody constantly about us and how bad we are, how great she is and how hard done by she is?

And whatever you might think about Dads being "clapped on the back" from this side of the fence it doesn't feel like that - more like just accepting the fact that whatever you do you are going to be perceived to be a total w**ker and apt to be ripped to shreds by everybody and then trying to be the best parent you can in that context.

The worst thing I could ever imagine would be to split from DH and NOT get to be the one to have primary care of my child (and, for either party, excpet for very strange parents who really are not interested in their kids, being primary carer is always going to be the better option) . So I find it hard to understand why so many people who get that privilege after a split then spend so much time ripping the other partner to shreds for not being the one there to pick up the day to day stuff when, in fact, they would never on their lives let that happen anyway. It puts the other parent in a position where they literally cannot win.

When you split one household becomes two. Money is stretched tighter. That is the reality of splitting. If the splitting decision was yours or was mutual (as it was in DH's case) then why not deal with it and not spend so much time just blaming one person for everything hard in yoru life (and this does extend further than money in our case). We have financial stresses too, we still meet our responsibilities, we see the kids as much as she allows, so what else does she honestly want us to do before she thinks twice about poisoning her children against their Dad. There is nothing we can do. And yes I find it frustrating and h=find her self righteosness extremely irrtitating.

And I do not get over-involved like a lot of step mums do and never interfere, DH does it all. Anytime I meet her or her DP or other child I am extremely friendly and always have been despite knowing what is said about us on a daily basis at that house. I get on great with my step kids.

Dh isn't interested in keeping the anger up and I think maybe I am being hurt for him which is not really necessary.

I think this thread has gone a little sour which is very sad. Itstillhurts, I can relate as we have had a terrible time with BM trying to alienate all 3 children against DP and myself for no reason at all (she ended relationship not DP). You have every right to feel the way you do and you are just protecting / feeling for your DH which is natural. Unfortunately as I have found from this site, not all cases are the same and people who are in different situations (i.e. Rickman) do not see it from someone elses perspective. I agree Rickman, some Ex DP/DH are absolute b**rds and they deserve to be slated when they do not provide for their children and treat them and the BM like crap. However, some DPs/DHs like Itstillhurts DH for example clearly provide for their children and want what is best for them. My DP has always provided for his children, been there for them and has had to fight through solicitors / courts etc. to have regular access to them. Our BM is intent on slagging DP off even now, 8 years after they split, and she kicked him out not the other way round. The poor children do love their daddy and show it but are made to feel guilty for loving him by BM which is wrong.

I guess what I am trying to say is not all BMs / DPs / DHs / Stepmums / Stepchildren / Biological Children etc. are the same so we should not judge. What is perfect for one person is crap for another etc. There are bad BMs and there are bad Fathers, there are also good BMs and good fathers.

All that is important is that the children are ALWAYS the innocent parties and they should not have to choose one parent over the other or be made to feel guilty about seeing one parent and they should never be objected to one parent slagging the other off however unamicable the split was.

Thanks for that FANC.

Although TBH I actually don't agree that absent parents ever "deserve to be slated" as it is about the kids feelings first and foremost, not the rights and wrongs of the parents and it can only serve to make the kids feel crap to hear how little their parent actually does for them. If dealing with the harsh reality in this way can possibly be avoided then i think you are a better person to avoid it, even if it does take superhuman effort (which I know it does).

On the more specific topic of money and blaming, as a parent I have moments when I am sat in frustrations and fighting back tears because we don't have any money left and don't know how we are going to pay bills, buy food etc for the next week (and sometimes this has happened when my DSKs are with us and we have to come up with money for the week's lunches, fees for lessons etc for them). There have been times when I have cancelled holidays etc because of money issues and we have had to break this to the children. What I don't do in these situations is blame somebody else for that and I particularly don't talk about it to any of the children, I accept it as part and parcel of life and DH and I try to do better next time. Whereas it has been described to me that in my DSK's mum's house (bearing in mind that she has been split for years from my DH and has a new partner and family) it is my DH's name that is bandied as the reason every time (and TBH I don't actually know whether or not her situation ever gets that bad) and worse than this it is DH who is actively blamed for things to his children. I find that unfair and very bad parental judgement. Firstly it is not true, secondly scrimping by is the reality for most families I know, step, single or otherwise and, provided somebody is trying to meet their responsbilities, the question of what is enough maintenance in any case is wildly subjective & prone to variation depending on many factors so you are always taking the risk that you are not actually "telling the truth" but actually just giving your own, extremely biased, skewed & negative opinion.

But I have calmed down now and will go back to walking the "calm middle road" on this issue in RL -that's the road where we just accept that we are always wrong and that our ears are constantly burning and that we are absolutely unable to do anything about it for fear of rocking the boat and DH being labelled as something even worse than he already is. And FWIW I do recall reading posts before on the Lone parents board (which I read from time to time to try to help me walk the middle road) where resident parents have stopped contact altogether on the basis that they think they are being badmouthed to kids by x-p or X-p's family and on the basis that it is "absuive" to their children to hear bad words about them, so nobody can tell me that it is easy to just have to accept it and live with it because it really isn't especially when you see the kid's being effected by it. It is upsetting but it is true that getting angry about it doesn't help anybody.

Sorry Itstillhurts I should have made my self more clear, when I said it was okay to slate an ex partner / parent if they deserve it, I was meaning slate on this site (for Rickman's benefit). I would NEVER condone it to the child or in front of the child!

If there is one thing I have learnt from my own experiences and from this site it is that it is such a hard job being a step parent. You sound like you are doing a great job and you are obviously well appreciated by your DH and step children.

I'd send it back to you and really consider letting my kids anywhere near you again.

Fiary fly it was never ever intended to go anywhere near her or anybody else - it was a rant designed to get out my spurt of anger nothing more - I have explained that I don't actually think she is a bad person or mother & but if you want to not read everything I have written then fine. I have changed my name for this so I can certainly take the criticism - as if I would actually say those things to her or my step kids who I have known for years and am very close to.

Fair enough, i just don't know if i could be bothered mustering the energy to write bile about another woman. Even if it was never for her eyes. But if you found it cathartic and has helped in someway, good for you.