Very very concerned

[catandthebear]

Hello everyone
I am really concerned about my partners youngest son (aged 7) and the level of hate he is expressing about me.
We have been together for a year, having both left our marriages to be together. I have had very little to do with his children due to his (soon to be) ex wife. his children were obviously upset about the seperation and are angry about my role in this. His son in particular has expressed extreme anger at this and has been very open about wanting me to die and wanting to kill me. I accept that this is probably a natural reaction in the early stages, but last night on the phone he told DP that he wanted him to kill me by hanging me very slowly until I died.
This in its self is upsetting, but I find the fact that his mother considers this acceptable and encourages it as a form of expressing his upset. When DP raised his concerns she just blmaes him and reassures the son that he is right to say these things.
Because i don't really have a relationship with the children, it isn't a direct issue for me, but I can't help being concerned and incredibly upset for the child.
Has anyone else had any experience with this.
I have a child myself and would be mortified if he expressed any desire to harm or kill someone. I am obviously concerned about how this will effect our future relationship, because I do feel that there is very little opportunity for me to play any role in their life int he future.
I had a break down over a year ago which resulted in an attemped suicide and self harm. DP's (soon to be ex) wife as tole the children all about this and painted a terrifying picture of me to them. I would love to have a child with DP, but this is looking very unlikely due to how badly his children have taken the seperation and his guilt (another concern and another Thread all together)
Please help if you can.
Would be grateful for any advice.

If it continues you might want to think about speaking to Social Services because I'm wondering exactly what his mum is exposing him to
oh great, break up a family and then call the SS because the child is upset...
un-fucking-beleivable

7 year olds aren't stupid. They don't get all the complexities of adult relationships, but they do notice that daddy's moved out of the house and in with another woman. And when they're crying themselves to sleep because daddy's not there, do you expect their mothers to say, 'Well it was a mutual decision!'

You don't need their mother badmouthing you to make a child resentful of you. You've taken their father away! They will, as someone mentioned earlier, find it a lot easier to blame you for that abandonment than the father they love.

I'd also ask yourself how his ex got the details of your breakdown and self harming. Unless you were a close friend of hers, I'd assume your DP told her.

I take NO responsibility for the fact that while I was on drips in hospital whilst pg with our baby, my ex-H was fucking someone else in my bed. Why the FUCK should I?!

I take no responsibility for the fact that while I looked after the baby night and day, he was continuing the affair under my nose, in my house whenever I was out, in the car park behind our house when I was asleep, and that when I found out, I told him to leave and he moved straight in with her. Again, why the FUCK should I take responsibility for that? Did I stick his dick in her? Um, NO.

HE made the choice to cheat on me instead of try to work on our relationship. I didn't fuck someone else the minute the going got tough. I tried to work on the things he wasn't happy about. But they were just cuntish ways of attempting to justify having an affair to himself. They WEREN'T my problems, they were HIS problems.

Nope, the CHEATER is ALWAYS the one at fault for cheating. If you no longer want to be in a relationship, you end it BEFORE you start a new one. No matter what.

Like FUCK will I take even 1% of the blame for his choice to cheat. Like FUCK will I take even 1% of the blame for the fact that he sees less of his DC's now he lives elsewhere - HE MADE THAT CHOICE THE MOMENT HE CHOSE TO CHEAT.

Cheating REALLY IS cheating on your family, not just your partner. Because you are cheating your children out of having both their parents all the time. You are cheating your children out of a settled family life. You are cheating your FAMILY when you choose to cheat.

If you don't want that to happen, then DON'T FUCKING CHEAT.

I would NEVER cheat, it's abhorrent, and I would be cheating my whole family. Yes, I have wanted to be out of a relationship - but I have ALWAYS ended a relationship WITHOUT lining up someone else to go to, WITHOUT seeing someone else first, WITHOUT cheating.

Of COURSE your DP's DS hates you - if he has been told the truth, that his dad left his mum to live with you, then why the hell SHOULDN'T he hate you? And all that is is stating facts.

I NEVER got over this with my own parents, I have never forgiven either the cheating parent OR the person they cheated with. I see them both as having the morals of alley cats, my mother and her OM.

How and WHY should anybody class themselves as a SM if they became in that position by being the OW is beyond me. You can ONLY be a SM if you had NOTHING to do with the relationship breakdown of the parents, and you met the Father after the relationship broke down. If you were the OW, then you're nothing but an immoral trollop that has no place near my DC's, and will CERTAINLY never deserve the title of SM.

A SM to me is a loving, caring person, who cares about their SDC's. If you live those DC's, then you don't get involved with one of their parents while their parents are still together. Because that's not a loving, caring action, is it?!

Wow, Couthy I'm not sure whether to be shocked or envious of your confidence and single-minded ness over this issue.

For me, relationships are more complex than just physical intimacy and betrayal is as much, if not more, an emotional as a physical act.

What is clear is that your relationship with your parents has been affected by the honesty you hold in such high regard - and that cycle has continued to the next generation as you have chosen to do the same thing to your DS.

I don't think it's inevitable that DCs have to hate an OW - my DP's ex left him to be with a new man - already a family friend who she'd been having an affair with for some time. DP was obviously pretty hurt but never said bad things about the man. His kids are all happy well adjusted kids today, who get on fine with their mum's boyfriend.

The youngest even appears to be still under the impression that he's still a family friend, rather than his mum's BF! I was quite amazed that he believed this, but says a great deal about how well his parents have handeled things.

What is wrong with expecting honesty? It's something I have always valued. I see anything less than honesty as lies. And I live my own life around ensuring I am honest in my dealings with others. I treat others as I expect to be treated.

And my DS's relationship with his father has NEVER been harmed by my honesty - until his SM hurt him (I use SM on MN for clarity, never in RL, as far as I am concerned she doesn't care about my DS, which has been evidenced by FAR more than her actions when I was still married to my Ex-H).

Until staying contact was stopped 9 weeks ago on the advice of SS, DS1 spent 45% of the last 8 years with his father. I can 't see that me telling him the truth has harmed him in any way, the only thing it has done is to make him certain that he will never cheat.

Like me, DS1 can separate a parents relationship with their DC from their personal relationships. His Father being a crap partner doesn't make him a crap Father. It does, however, mean that his moral compass is not the best.

I wouldn't badmouth his dad to him, EVER. I would only tell the truth. If a Father doesn't want his child to know that he has cheated on their Mother, then he shouldn't do it. Simple, really.

Nothing wrong with honesty couthy - but as they say, the truth hurts and I don't think it's always necessary to inflict that pain by being honest for the sake of it. A child, particularly a young child, does not need to know that a parent has been unfaithful - you have said yourself, it is irrelevant to the parent-child relationship, so not necessary to share.

You have just as much choice over whether or not to hurt your DCs by telling them the whole truth as your Ex had when choosing to have the affair. Only you control that behaviour, and others may choose differently. They are no less loving and caring parents because of it.

I just don't see the problem with me holding honesty in very high regard. Not when the alternative is to be a liar.

There's no middle ground, either you're telling the truth or you're not. Though the way I feel about this may be connected to the fact that I do have some many Autistic traits, to the point where I would nowadays be given a diagnosis of Aspergers if I pushed for diagnosis.

I see no grey areas wrt honesty - either you are telling the truth or you're lying. I won't deny that this HAS caused me some issues in life, but tbh if people can't be honest with me, like I am with them, then they are not people I really want around me.

As an example, my friends will only ask me if their bum looks big in something if they want a brutally honest answer. But equally, if I ask them, they know that I am after a brutally honest answer, and won't think of them as rude for giving an honest answer that I have asked for.

My true friends accept me for who I am, and know that I will be honest to a fault. But they also know that I expect honesty in return.

I can't change the way I am, and how much I value honesty, I have tried, but I feel uneasy and dishonest even telling a 'white' lie, to protect someone else's feelings, and wasn't at all believable when I told someone they looked good in a dress that would have made a size 6 supermodel look like shit.

I tried to be, for their sake, but because I didn't have the conviction to follow behind the words, and they could see the internal conflict of honesty versus their feelings written on my face, they didn't believe me.

How highly I value honesty is written in every single one of my day to day activities tbh. It's just who I am, honest even if it will cause me problems, lose me friends, make my own life harder.

I don't understand why other people don 't value honesty as highly as me. I never ask a question that I don't want a brutally honest answer to, surely asking someone if you look fat in something when you don't want to know the truth is just trying to get an ego boost at the expense of someone else's honesty? Why not just be honest with them, admit you are feeling a bit insecure over your weight, and asking for a bit of sympathy?

When my friend did that recently, was honest with me about how she felt, I took a DVD round to hers, cooked her a healthy meal, (so she didn't feel obliged to get a takeaway then feel bad about it like I would have), took her some flowers, and had a giggle with her to cheer her up.

Why can't people just be honest with each other about what they need and want in life?!

NADM - So if the DC overhears you crying, and asks why, what do you say? I at first said it was because I was missing their dad. (The truth). Then they asked why he left... Wtf else was I meant to say?

(I WILL point out that my DS has ALSO always valued honesty as much as I have, so would press and press for an answer, and would be able to tell by my face if I was trying to hide something from them, and would not drop until he saw from my body language that I was telling the truth.)

I SQUIRM physically if I am not telling someone the full truth. I actually CAN'T physically hide the reactions that happen if I am not telling the full truth. Wtf can I do about that?

Go to lying school, so that I can lie or omit truths convincingly?

How did I have a choice - it would have been physically obvious to ANYONE over 3yo that I was lying, and it would have destroyed any trust my child had in me if I wasn't truthful with them, at a time when that child NEEDS someone they can trust when their life is in upheaval.

Why should the innocent parent have to deceive their DC by either lying or omission, destroying the trust that child has in that parent when they find out (and they WILL, as the truth ALWAYS comes out), when they have done nothing wrong?

I've always considered part of my job as a parent is to protect my DD from emotions and experiences that she is unable to cope with. If that means withholding information, then so be it. I have cried in front of my DD - and my explanation, that Mummy gets sad sometimes, may not be sufficient for her, But leaving her dissatisfied with my response is more acceptable to me than the hurt that would be caused by unburdening myself on her and sharing my own emotions with her when she is too young to understand or cope with them.

My DD knows, because I have made it clear, that I am not prepared to tell her why my marriage to her dad ended. That it is not something she has a need (or right) to know. She wants to know - we have agreed to disagree, and as her parent, I decide what I consider is best for her.

She trusts me not to put her at risk and her relationship with her dad uninfluenced by the details of his behaviour as a partner/husband.

It hasn't been easy - but with support, I have learnt to express myself to DD in a way that is appropriate for her age and maturity.

And to most DC's, if a Parent leaves the family home and moves in with someone else, it's kind of obvious that they have left for that person, isn't it?

And if the person they have left for has a child, then the parent HAS to understand that there WILL be a sense (to the child) that Daddy didn't love them enough (for X/Y/Z reason, which they will come up with by themselves), and that they MUST love their 'new' children more, because they want to spend more time with them.

If a parent doesn't want their child to feel like that, then why the hell do they cheat or leave their relationship when they could just WORK on the relationship they have got?

I have NEVER left a relationship with my DC's Fathers, and have always tried to improve the relationship, to the bitter end. I owe that much to my DC's. It's just a shame that their Father's couldn't be bothered to do the same.

IMO, adults look on their marriages as just involving them nowadays. But they don't. Once you have DC's, any effort you don't bother putting into your adult relationship is effort that you are not putting into your DC's FAMILY. I think people are too quick to cheat or walk away from their relationships these days, without thinking about the emotional consequences on their DC's.

It's just another sign of how selfish and self absorbed people are.

OP so sorry you're going through this. I'd be rather worried about the level of anger and especially his graphic descriptions of how he would kill you, that doesn't seem quite normal. Rage and expressing hate and even shouting or wishing you were dead are all part of the deal, even biological parents have to deal with some of that .

It is really very common for the ex to be extremely angry for a long period of time and put all sorts of barriers in place to stop the child having a proper relationship with their other parent and especially with any new partners. In fact when a new partner comes along previously good contact relationships are prone to breaking down under what is essentially plain old jealousy.

An ex of mine recently split with his wife (he left her for OW) and the wife has been open about telling the children that the OW is a whore who took their daddy away from them. They are forbidden from going to his new home or to meet his new partner, as its early days she has no desire to see them yet but what has been said about her and their mother's attitude towards her has impacted on their relationship with their father. Yes he left his wife, what a terrible sin , until you find out what else was going on in the relationship and then wonder why he stayed so long. These things are usually not so black and white as one person was all bad, the other was all good.

From reading numerous other SMs stories and from my own experience I'd say gently get to know him, with time he will see what you are actually like and eventually make up his own mind when he is free to think for himself. If the hostility is so bad it affects his relationship with his father then i'd seek professional advice as a matter of urgency.

i meant to write contact agreements not contact relationships.

There have been 3 pages of posts here, and not one, as far as I can see is offering the OP any advice. It's all either judgement or hatred. She hasn't said "poor me", nor "it's not my fault" she's asked for advice on how to handle a situation which is obviously not healthy for her partner's son and how to make it better.

Luckily for me I am not in a position to give advice, but hope that someone helpful comes along soon.

frosty there are several very helpful posts in amongst the criticism - I'm sure the OP can pick out the supportive ones

IMO there is not much you can do OP.

You are an adult, therefore you need to ignore what the 7year old child is saying. He's expressing how angry and upset he is. You can't stop his mum from saying what she likes to her son, so just ignore it.

I would also say does your DH need to tell you when his son says these things? Could he not keep it to himself?

Also why did your DH need to tell his ex wife about your health problems?

Oops, I'll shut up then!

couthy you are right, for most DCs is simply a case of feeling rejected by the parent who leaves the family home - the nuances of why the marriage ended, who was to blame and where their loyalties should lie are lost on them
In the interests of honesty, are you suggesting that a NRP who has left the family home should put their DCs straight and tell them that Mummy had an affair and threw Daddy out?

The OP has not said that she and her DP moved in together straight away - or even that they live together now. In the absence of that evidence - how have the DCs come to the conclusion that the OP is the OW? One or both parents played a part in informing them - and I think that it is unnecessary in those circumstances.

Couthymow why are you swearing at other posters. Clearly this is an issue you feel strongly about, but do you really need to express yourself like that?

"One or both parents played a part in informing them"

It depends how old the older children are, one of them finding out could easily have informed the others. Equally the mother could have been struggling to explain things to them and let it slip unintentionally. Good posts from akaemmafrost and Couthy about the one getting the blame here - the OP's post is all about what the ex-wife is doing and nothing about what she and her DP have done to cause this situation. I really think both need to start taking some responsibility for this.

I agree with Quick really that there's nothing you can do here, and your DP really shouldn't be telling you what his son is saying. He does need to be speaking to his ex-wife and finding out what is going on and what steps she has already taken - the child may already be receiving counselling, or it may be that she feels it healthier that the child verbalises his feelings rather than bottle them up. Certainly your DP should not be informing her about your health, but tbh I can see why, now that she knows about it, she has concerns. It's a mess for everyone concerned, but that is not only because of the ex-wife.

I absolutely do not believe anybody who says they have never lied/deliberately withheld facts from their child. For reasons that NADM explains, such as protecting them from emotions they don't have the maturity to deal with for example. And probably lots of other reasons besides.

There's not much you can do to be honest. Your DSS needs time to work it out and hopefully his parents will reach a sort of agreement regarding the children.

Whenever you meet him, all you can do is be polite and ignore any hateful words. They may be disturbing, but he is still a seven-year-old child trying to express his anger in a way that makes sure his dad knows how angry he is. Unfortunately for you, you're the one he is blaming (like someone said earlier, easier to blame faceless woman than Daddy who he loves). He's a child and you're an adult, and you're not his parent so what you can actually do without making the situation worse is very limited.

His dad left his mum for you, it may not be all your fault, their marriage might have been breaking down anyway and it might happen later even without your input, but he's seven and so can't understand all of this. Just give him a bit of time.