DSS is now 18 - surely things must change ......... ?

[Petal02]

So DSS has now celebrated (he didn?t have a party, he just wanted to go out for a meal with DH and I) his 18th birthday and starts back at 6th Form College (for his second year of A levels) next week. I?d like some honest opinions, especially from those of you who know the background details.

We?ve been operating flexible-ish visiting for the last few months, with some minor resistance from DSS, and on the whole it?s worked OK. DSS now works on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, just round the corner from where he lives with his mother. DH had (unsuccessfully) tried to ferry DSS to/from his workplace during his alternate weekend stays with us, but given the distances involved, it just meant DH spending Saturday and Sunday on the road, whereas if DSS had been based at his mothers, it?s literally a two minute walk. So DH has had to concede that it?s impractical to keep DSS with us beyond Saturday lunch time on access weekends.

DSS is very keen that he still has the same amount of time with his Dad, even though DH works Monday-Friday and DSS works Saturday and Sunday. Even DH had reluctantly agreed this is impractical. However as access weekends used to run from Thursday 4pm til Sunday 6pm, and now they?re shorter because they finish at lunch time on Saturday (before DSS starts his afternoon shift),DSS wants to shift his visits so that they run from Tuesday 4pm til Saturday lunch time. I understand that he?s losing two weekend days with his Dad, as he?s now working, and wants two extra week nights to compensate.

But having an ?access weekend? that starts on Tuesday (!!!!!!!) even though it finishes on Saturday lunch time, seems ridiculous for an adult. And that?s what DSS is now, he?s an adult. It surely can?t be realistic to maintain the same amount of contact hours that he had when he was 11, not when he?s working at weekends, and it?s logistically very difficult for DH to bring him over to us on a Tuesday night, because that means he needs lifts to/from college on Weds/Thurs/Fri which impacts greatly on DH?s work. Not to mention that DH and I often do stuff on weeknights. Should we stop these things because DH has an adult son?

In my opinion, things surely have to change ???. I don?t see why (although tell me if I?m wrong) DSS can?t be OK with Thursday 4pm-Sat lunch time? Yes, it?s less time with his Dad but he?s 18 now. Of course they still want to see each other, but I?m amazed that an 18 yr old wants so much rostered time with a parent. I?m also worried that DSS may cease his weekend job if he can?t maintain the same amount of contact with DH.

DH hasn't given DSS an answer on his Tuesday-Saturday request yet. I want to talk to DH about it tonight or tomorrow. But before I do, I?d like some opinions from fellow SMs. I don?t want to spend four consecutive weekend nights hanging out with DH?s adult son, just so that ? x? amount of weekly hours can be achieved. I think it?s all insane but I suspect I?m too close to the situation to see it clearly.

'A level retakes are no different to A levels. If it takes you one, two, or three times its the grade at the end that counts. Ridiculous statement'

Yes. Because Universities never look at whether it's a resit when comparing applications.

I agree with Bonsoir. It seems clear to me from your posts that you think 'flexible' contact means less contact. Like others, I find the image of an 18 year old writing down his contact hours very sad - that is not normal, but to simply say 'well he's got to grow up because he's reached this arbitrary age of 18 so now he's an adult' is not actually going to suddenly make him be a grown up. He is this way because of his upbringing.

And the vast majority of 18 year olds are boys, not adults. Especially ones that are still at school. They may be on the way to adulthood, but they are not there yet. Aside from anything else, their brains don't stop maturing until their early 20s (particularly in areas regarding impulse control, adjusting behaviours on consideration of long term impacts etc). Just because he could be fighting awar, does that mean he should?

The fact is, he will grow up in his own time. If you push him (in any way other then very gently) you could damage this lad; and quite frankly he sounds damaged already. You don't want him there, he knows that. You are hiding behind practical difficulties so you don't have to say what you really mean. Be honest. If 'flexible' contact meant he ended up staying with you more than he does already, would you really be happy with that? Considering any contact for the next 10 months at least will involve having to do college pick ups/drop offs, working around his job etc. That isn't going to go away.

Oh, and A Levels are by far the most important thing for university application. How do they even know whether you are independent or have 'age appropriate life skills'? Of course there will be some candidates with tons of stuff, but good A levels, a part time job (shows dedication and maturity) and a passion for whatever subject he is applying for? More than enough to get him into most courses.

LtEve There are plenty of courses where they will not accept A Level retakes. Plus this may well be his only shot to take them without having to pay for them.

I really am surprised how many people think an 18 year old isnt an adult Surely the transition into adulthood starts around 13/14 when children have their own opinion and can voice their feelings and needs in a more mature way.

Petal, i would go along with everyone who says push him to get his driving license. This might alleviate the transport issues which seem to hinder any flexibility. I cant honestly understand why any 18 year old would want to spend their 18th birthday with either parent, shouldnt he be out ordering his first legal beer with a group of friends or was that just my kids

Does his Mum encourage this dependency? I would be very worried that if your DSS isnt making huge strides in his maturity then there is no way he will be off to Uni. You could be doing this when he is 25!

Both of my DDs stayed on for A levels but they were in no way treated as children and certainly didnt act as children. They made the decision to get up everyday and attend school without my foot up their arses, they also had fantastic social lives that didnt revolve around me and Ex. They both had jobs from the age of 14 washing dishes at the local pub which paid for nights out. Myself and their Dad let them get on with it and they flitted between houses as and when it suited them, more often than not it was my house purely because i live in the town.

fenton summed it up perfectly by saying the only person hampering his freedom is him

I have huge sympathy for you Petal. Order his provisional license! He is an adult not a child.

You will find people on here who talk about how they were living on their own with two jobs and a baby by the time they were 18. And how students should pay their own way through university because they're adults. That's one point of view.

In my family/circle of friends it's normal for DC to stay in school until 18. School, not college. They have a dress code. They live at home and may have a weekend job but their parents pay for their clothes, give them money every month etc. Studying is their job. When they drive their parents pay for the insurance and the petrol. Then they go to university which their parents help fund them through, coming home during the holidays.

Bonsoir No adult freedoms? No choices? No options?

Are you saying that at 18 years old, he is at the behest of his parents/law/others - unable to make his own choices about how he spends his time, with whom he socialises, what he studies, whether he earns or not?
Are These all things that he has no choice over and are enforced on him by his parents and others?

No wonder petal is frustrated - I would be too if I saw an 18 year old treated in such a way.

That's not true, is it. As i understand it, He has chosen to continue his studies, chosen to take on a part time job, chosen to pursue a university place - those privileges of adulthood should not be available to a child who doesn't want the responsibility that accompanies them.

Bonsoir ? DSS left school at 16, and then enrolled at a sixth form college, ie he changed institutions. So he has left school. We?re both keen that he does well in his A levels, but you don?t need a strict access rota to do well at school. And as other posters have said, life skills are just as important as academic qualifications. If he fails to do well in his A levels, he doesn?t have any life/vocational skills to fall back on, so god knows what he?d do. You say he doesn?t have the freedom to earn enough money to support himself ???. Er, sorry, but yes he does!!! He?s 18 FFS. If he wanted to leave college (not school, he left there age 16) tomorrow and seek a ?proper? job, then no one can stop him. He has the freedom. He?s 18 ???? !!!

You seem to imply that he can only get good grades if we infantilise him. I find this strange.

As another poster pointed out, his mathematical calculation of contact hours indicates that he?s not interested in quality time with his Dad, just the amount of hours. This has always been the case. He?s often spends Saturdays or evenings at our house when DH and I are out ? but DSS doesn?t mind this. DH has often collected him, dropped him off at our empty house, and then gone to work ? in fact both of them think it?s OK, contact hours are being clocked up, the rota is being complied with, both boxes ticked. The fact that they?re not spending time together doesn?t bother either of them.

I also agree that DSS is quite happy to with the transport problem, because yes ? it definitely maintains his dependency. He?s shown zero interest in learning to drive. So I may take the advice of those who have suggested we apply for a provisional licence on his behalf, otherwise it may never happen.

University will be the most horrendous shock for him.

I can't see how it is the son's fault.

His mum regularly wants him out of her house.
His step-mum doesn't want him around much.
His Dad doesn't know what he wants.

Poor kid, if he were my son he'd come first, children are for life in my book.

Then Petal is the problem how you and how your DP and DSS view the situation?

DP and DSS view your house as a second home, so he can be there whether you are or not, he spends his allocated hours (as he has two homes and thus has to split his hours between the two houses) there and all is OK.

You view it as yours and DPs home and as such DSS should be around when he can spend time with his dad rather than just around?

I dont know what the answer is because I think the key to this is why DSS is so determined to count the hours he spends at his dads house.

Yes. Because Universities never look at whether it's a resit when comparing applications

So no-one should bother with re-sits? Why do they then?

What about more 'mature' students that failed their A levels first time? I'm sharing an office with a lady that went to Uni at 30. She's my boss. It certainly didn't harm her.

Petal I'm not convinced that your DSS will actually go to university. I mean, it's not compulsory, and there is no reason he couldn't get a good job without a degree - millions of people do. But in his case I think uni will fall by the wayside for him, because it will be too hard for him to go - what will his dad do then?

Petal , why is it so difficult to understand your DSS likes spending time with his Dad? From the information you have given us the only way he can do this is by designated lifts from your DH, which means the times need to be allocated.

If he was able to move freely between two homes he could have a key, come as and when, and arrange with his Dad what they are going to do. This is what i envisage happening when my DSS gets older.

It really does come accross as if you just dont want him in your home, if thats the real reason for posting there isnt a lot of advice we can offer you!

pink as I see it, petals DSS is not motivated by spending time with his Dad. He would prefer to sit in his dads empty house while his dad is at work than deviate from a pre-arranged schedule put in place many years ago, even if the deviation would allow him to spend time with his Dad at another time.

His motivation appears to be sticking to routine, and ensuring that the agreement reached between his parents, years ago, is adhered to.

He appears to fear the responsibility of making his own choices as he is unwilling to take the risk of making a choice contrary to the choice that one or both parents would make.

I wonder how much of the strict calculation of hours might have to do with his mother as well. She has sounded quite money motivated previously

Of course resits have a point, but if you're 19 with As from resits you're behind 18 year olds with the same grades in the queue for places.

I still fail to understand what difference it makes. If he chooses to chill out at his Dad's house whether or not his Dad or Stepmum are in, what harm is he doing.

My DD, DSD and DSS all do this, so what, its their home, they are allowed to!

Pinkbraces: In the OP ...and it?s logistically very difficult for DH to bring him over to us on a Tuesday night, because that means he needs lifts to/from college on Weds/Thurs/Fri which impacts greatly on DH?s work

It's my understanding that Petal's DSS lives some distance from them. That makes a difference I think.

Pinkbraces ? you say you don?t understand why DSS shouldn?t come over to our (empty) house to chill out; but in order for this to happen, DH has to drive all the way to collect him, and then take him all the way back when he?s finished. Just to hang out in an empty house. You will never convince me this is healthy behaviour.

Dallas - sorry, I didn't see your post until I'd pressed send. Yes, you're right, its the distance between our house and the ex's house that's the problem.

Allnew - I think you're right that the ex insists DSS spends exactly the right amount of hours per week with us (even if it means DSS misses out on other stuff) but sadly DSS has been practically indoctrinated to believe that life has to follow the rota, week in, week out, with very few exceptions.

He does sound a bit of a lost soul, really.

It must be hard having to pick him up - I am sorry if I have missed this but can he not get the bus/train? And is it very far - a car may be too much but he could get a moped (dd has got one and is has been brilliant for her independence).

The clocking up hours thing is strange, but is evidently what he is used to. But I think it is fine that he just wants to come round the house and be there even if you and DH are out. If he is able to make his own way to the house can you not just let him have a key so he can come round as and when he likes? It doesn't have to stop you and your DH doing things - he can just be there and treat the house as his home whilst you carry on with your usual life.

Can he not stay?

If transport is the only issue then of course he needs to fit in with your DH working patterns, is their absolutely no alternative, how about a bike?

Have you asked him if he can get lifts or even if he can offer suggestions as to how he can get to and from your house without his dad giving him lifts all the time.

With regard to the provisional, I wouldnt apply for him, just get him to sit down with his Dad and fill it out online, its very easy, I did it with my DD last year.

What you seem to be implying is that you really dont want him about, perhaps thats how he feels and it manifests itself by ensuring he continues to have exactly the same hours as he is scared you dont want him to still see his Dad.

The expectation that he should suddenly turn into a fully functioning organised adult at the age of 18 is not realistic.

My DSD is 16 and she lives with us, I can imagine the reaction if she believed she couldnt continue to have the same time with her Dad at 18 than she has now, they do lots of fun things together and value their time, it wont change. Even when she goes to Uni, it will just be different.

So it's ok to push him into driving despite the fact that petal says he has no interest?

Surely that's an adult choice - learn to drive/make your own way or spend less time at Dads?

I have always found gentle persuasion quite useful.

The only outcome the OP seems to want is her DSS spending less time at her house, all of the suggestions from many posters have either been ignored or to difficult.

Having teenagers who want to come and go isnt always easy, and bear in mind he didnt choose where his parents lived.

I'm sorry pinkbraces but of course it will change - it is natural to children to spend less time with their parents and do less stuff with them as they get older. It should be the case that this is led by the young adults and is a natural progression towards independence. If your dsd is still spending lots of time doing lots of fun things with her dad when she is 18 then I would be seriously worried about her social skills and level of independence.

I'm not saying you can't have fun and spend time with grown-up kids - it's just not the same and shouldn't be the same as when they are children.

I think the choice of learning to drive or not seeing Dad would have to come with a bit of a warning wouldn't it? Eg - dad says "DS, I'll run you to and fro from college this term, I'll pay for driving lessons, and then if you pass your test, I'll buy/lend you a car so you can make your own way after Christmas"

If his dad doesn't or isn't able to do that, then DSS really cannot make his own way to and from his dad's house. So no matter how much anyone may think he ought to be more independent, there's no way he can be. It presumably wasn't DSS's choice that his dad lives in the middle of nowhere with no public transport.

As far as I can see, he used to come 4 nights a fortnight, this has reduced because of a weekend job, DSS would like it to resume with more week days instead of weekend, and Petals DH is happy to reorganise his work to facilite this. I can't really see what the problem is.

Whether he is a "child" or an "adult" is irrelevant to the fact that he's at a life stage (doing A levels) when young people are normally living at home with their parents. As his parents live apart, he divides he spends 4 out of 14 nights with his dad, why shouldn't he?