DSS is now 18 - surely things must change ......... ?

[Petal02]

So DSS has now celebrated (he didn?t have a party, he just wanted to go out for a meal with DH and I) his 18th birthday and starts back at 6th Form College (for his second year of A levels) next week. I?d like some honest opinions, especially from those of you who know the background details.

We?ve been operating flexible-ish visiting for the last few months, with some minor resistance from DSS, and on the whole it?s worked OK. DSS now works on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, just round the corner from where he lives with his mother. DH had (unsuccessfully) tried to ferry DSS to/from his workplace during his alternate weekend stays with us, but given the distances involved, it just meant DH spending Saturday and Sunday on the road, whereas if DSS had been based at his mothers, it?s literally a two minute walk. So DH has had to concede that it?s impractical to keep DSS with us beyond Saturday lunch time on access weekends.

DSS is very keen that he still has the same amount of time with his Dad, even though DH works Monday-Friday and DSS works Saturday and Sunday. Even DH had reluctantly agreed this is impractical. However as access weekends used to run from Thursday 4pm til Sunday 6pm, and now they?re shorter because they finish at lunch time on Saturday (before DSS starts his afternoon shift),DSS wants to shift his visits so that they run from Tuesday 4pm til Saturday lunch time. I understand that he?s losing two weekend days with his Dad, as he?s now working, and wants two extra week nights to compensate.

But having an ?access weekend? that starts on Tuesday (!!!!!!!) even though it finishes on Saturday lunch time, seems ridiculous for an adult. And that?s what DSS is now, he?s an adult. It surely can?t be realistic to maintain the same amount of contact hours that he had when he was 11, not when he?s working at weekends, and it?s logistically very difficult for DH to bring him over to us on a Tuesday night, because that means he needs lifts to/from college on Weds/Thurs/Fri which impacts greatly on DH?s work. Not to mention that DH and I often do stuff on weeknights. Should we stop these things because DH has an adult son?

In my opinion, things surely have to change ???. I don?t see why (although tell me if I?m wrong) DSS can?t be OK with Thursday 4pm-Sat lunch time? Yes, it?s less time with his Dad but he?s 18 now. Of course they still want to see each other, but I?m amazed that an 18 yr old wants so much rostered time with a parent. I?m also worried that DSS may cease his weekend job if he can?t maintain the same amount of contact with DH.

DH hasn't given DSS an answer on his Tuesday-Saturday request yet. I want to talk to DH about it tonight or tomorrow. But before I do, I?d like some opinions from fellow SMs. I don?t want to spend four consecutive weekend nights hanging out with DH?s adult son, just so that ? x? amount of weekly hours can be achieved. I think it?s all insane but I suspect I?m too close to the situation to see it clearly.

Allnewtaketwo - when you said, "Did his mother actually have a child with the expectation that she could get rid of him for 4 nights a fortnight? Surely if you have a child you expect it to be a permanent thing rather than a temporary arrangement" - does that not apply equally to his father??

Aren't you equally assuming mum can't wait to boot her son off? Perhaps she just wants him to spend time with his father and it has nothing to do with not wanting him around?

His father isn't looking to get rid of him though. It is his son who took a part time job during the scheduled contact hours. In fact Petal's DH has been extremely keen to maintain contact with his son, not to get rid of him at all.

I'm really struggling with this thread now!

Is it really considered best for older DCs to renegotiate their shared care arrangement each time they take on a commitment outside the home, to ensure that the amount of time they allocate to each parent remains proportional to the agreement that was arranged at the time their parents first separated?

If my DD joins an after school club, will it be best to renegotiate the arrangement with her Dad so DD still spends the same proportion of her remaining time with each of us?

If she goes on a school residential during school holidays - do we re-negotiate splitting the rest of the holidays between us?

When she goes to Uni, do we make sure that her visits home are equally divided and she spends alternate holiday weeks with each of us?

I bloody well hope not. I can't understand the argument for this at all - it implies that quantity of time spent together is the key factor in a relationship - and yet my own experience is that quality is far more important.

Aren't you equally assuming mum can't wait to boot her son off? Perhaps she just wants him to spend time with his father and it has nothing to do with not wanting him around?

Maybe maybe maybe who knows. What difference does it make to the point of the OP? And the fact that the change in contact cannot be practically facilitated by the father and won't be practially facilitated by the mother.

It's absurd that Mr Petal wanted his daughter to go out less and Mrs Petal wants the son to go out more. Perhaps she's trying to push him the way of the daughter, so he becomes excommunicated. Just hang on in there, Petal, and keep doing what you're doing

Funny isn't it. The poster that uses the ridiculous and outdated term 'Wicked Stepmother' makes no mention of the childs actual mother who also wants her son 'out of the way'

Selective, passive aggressive and sarcastic Frieda, ohh what a catch you are

These threads really are a waste of time. So many posters just jumping in and reading what they want to read (that the SM is always in the wrong) and never answering the logical and thought out posts because, heavens, they may have to admit that the Wicked Stepmum has a point - or wants what is best for the stepchild.

What a horrible, nasty, blinkered world some people must live in.

These threads really are a waste of time. So many posters just jumping in and reading what they want to read (that the SM is always in the wrong) and never answering the logical and thought out posts because, heavens, they may have to admit that the Wicked Stepmum has a point - or wants what is best for the stepchild

I really don't think that statement applies to this thread.

This thread has just gone crazy.

The dad cannot facilitate the contact that his son wants due to work commitments
The mum cannot (or will not) facilitate the contact that the son wants due to reasons unknown

Therefore the son cannot have the contact that he wants.

I agree that maybe there are reasons that the son is acting like he is, and those reasons do need addressing but that doesnt mean he can have the contact hes asking for

If addressing those reasons were given the priority they need then the issue of contact rigidity could be resolved.

Really?

So Petal is concerned about her adult DSS - he has no friends, no outside interests and no will to be flexible about his contact with his father. But Petal is wrong.

The adult DSS took a weekend job that impinges on the time he spends with his father, and causes his father problems at work etc. Petal suggests a solution. But Petal is wrong.

...and the statement doesn't apply? Nope.

"If addressing those reasons were given the priority they need then the issue of contact rigidity could be resolved"

Amberleaf I think your time on here is wasted, you would be much better spending time charging for some sort of telepathic physoctheray diagnosis I'm sure

Yes addressing those reasons need to be given a priority but its not Petals place to do it. Thats the responsibility of her DP and his Ex.

So if quality's more important in the contact - which I don't necessarily disagree with - where is the plan or intent to provide the DSS with fewer hours but better quality contact? I don't see that here. All there is is the declaration that the dad doesn't have the time to spare to do the ferrying about so tough, and that Petal doesn't want to sit around with her DSS in the evenings, so tough. It's all about diminishing time with him, nothing about increasing quality of the dad-son relationship.

Petal has a right to an opinion has have all human beings, in particular over matters in their own home. Dh does have responsibility and has made a practical decision

Can I just reiterate what Allnew has just pointed out ? that it?s not a case of me and DH wanting to ?get rid? of DSS, it was DSS who elected to take a weekend job, thus forcing a change of visiting arrangements. DSS?s proposed ?new visiting arrangement? is not practically or financially viable for DH, so it has been declined.

And as NADM so rightly points out, you don?t expect to have to renegotiate contact just because a child (let alone an adult) takes on a new commitment?

What if DSS goes away to Uni, only comes home once/twice per term, how are we going to fit in all the ?lost time?? Surely there comes a point that if a young adult decides to work at the weekend, then they have to accept this means less time with their parents? This would surely be the case in a ?together? family.

Interestingly DSS also misses out on time with his mother when he?s working on ?her? weekends but there hasn?t been any mention on him making up the ?lost time? with her. However knowing how the ex?s mind works (ie time equals money) in the past she?s insisted that DH undertake every second of his weekly parenting duties, otherwise she threatens to contact the CSA.

So I?m sure that if DSS is spending even half an hour less per week at our house than before, the ex will be there will her calculator working out how much her maintenance should increase.

Petal's concern doesn't seem to extend to any solutions that make life better for her DSS, only better for her and her DH - ie get the DSS to drive cos that'll save them driving him around and losing work time. So all the stuff about 'I want him to be independent' comes across as 'I want him to go away'.

And yes, those solutions should actually be her DH's responsibility - or even the joint responsibility of her and her DH as parent and stepparent? But I don't see any discussion of either of them thinking about positive solutions.

All there is is the declaration that the dad doesn't have the time to spare to do the ferrying about so tough, and that Petal doesn't want to sit around with her DSS in the evenings, so tough

Oh thank you for proving my point - I do appreciate it

He still gives the ex maintenance even though his son is 18? I didn't know you had to.

Petal, the university situation is not the same as the situation for an A level student. That university context is where a young person starts to make a more profound transition to adulthood. But that's not happening for another year. It goes back to your point that he's an adult now, with which I - and others - have disagreed and said that reaching adulthood is a phase and doesn't happen overnight.

But why can't DSS's impractical suggestion be responded to with one that is workable? Thursday and Friday night suit, so why not do that weekly?

LtEveDallas thanks for deciding unilaterally that posts agreeing with you are logical and posts disagreeing aren't

DH is paying maintenance til DSS finishes his A levels

So DH accepts then that he's not an adult till he finished A levels, if DH is paying maintenance?

But does he have to? I mean, can the ex hold him hostage for maintenance now that DS is 18?

Maintenance is paid under the same rules as CB - until 19 if the child is in full time education (A Level equivalent level, not uni). It's to ensure children like Petal's DSS who were born at the start of the school years are still supported through their final year at school/equivalent.

NADM, if it truly is "quality" rather than "quantity", then surely the advice given would be for children to do activities, see friends, attend parties rather than maintain current contact arrangements, yet it isn't. If it really was about "quality", then surely the posters with children who don't have quality contact with the NRP would be advised to reduce contact? I am not at all saying children should maintain the same level of contact throughout their childhood - as I said I feel it is important for my children to build independent hobbies, friendships and interests. I'm just curious how that could be balanced with contact with an NRP who either doesn't live locally or won't do the same in "his" time?