DSS is now 18 - surely things must change ......... ?

[Petal02]

So DSS has now celebrated (he didn?t have a party, he just wanted to go out for a meal with DH and I) his 18th birthday and starts back at 6th Form College (for his second year of A levels) next week. I?d like some honest opinions, especially from those of you who know the background details.

We?ve been operating flexible-ish visiting for the last few months, with some minor resistance from DSS, and on the whole it?s worked OK. DSS now works on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, just round the corner from where he lives with his mother. DH had (unsuccessfully) tried to ferry DSS to/from his workplace during his alternate weekend stays with us, but given the distances involved, it just meant DH spending Saturday and Sunday on the road, whereas if DSS had been based at his mothers, it?s literally a two minute walk. So DH has had to concede that it?s impractical to keep DSS with us beyond Saturday lunch time on access weekends.

DSS is very keen that he still has the same amount of time with his Dad, even though DH works Monday-Friday and DSS works Saturday and Sunday. Even DH had reluctantly agreed this is impractical. However as access weekends used to run from Thursday 4pm til Sunday 6pm, and now they?re shorter because they finish at lunch time on Saturday (before DSS starts his afternoon shift),DSS wants to shift his visits so that they run from Tuesday 4pm til Saturday lunch time. I understand that he?s losing two weekend days with his Dad, as he?s now working, and wants two extra week nights to compensate.

But having an ?access weekend? that starts on Tuesday (!!!!!!!) even though it finishes on Saturday lunch time, seems ridiculous for an adult. And that?s what DSS is now, he?s an adult. It surely can?t be realistic to maintain the same amount of contact hours that he had when he was 11, not when he?s working at weekends, and it?s logistically very difficult for DH to bring him over to us on a Tuesday night, because that means he needs lifts to/from college on Weds/Thurs/Fri which impacts greatly on DH?s work. Not to mention that DH and I often do stuff on weeknights. Should we stop these things because DH has an adult son?

In my opinion, things surely have to change ???. I don?t see why (although tell me if I?m wrong) DSS can?t be OK with Thursday 4pm-Sat lunch time? Yes, it?s less time with his Dad but he?s 18 now. Of course they still want to see each other, but I?m amazed that an 18 yr old wants so much rostered time with a parent. I?m also worried that DSS may cease his weekend job if he can?t maintain the same amount of contact with DH.

DH hasn't given DSS an answer on his Tuesday-Saturday request yet. I want to talk to DH about it tonight or tomorrow. But before I do, I?d like some opinions from fellow SMs. I don?t want to spend four consecutive weekend nights hanging out with DH?s adult son, just so that ? x? amount of weekly hours can be achieved. I think it?s all insane but I suspect I?m too close to the situation to see it clearly.

Hmm. It's interesting that some of you wicked stepmothers see Petal's house as Petal's house, and not as the boy's home with his father. And interesting that some of you think that because there's no legally enforceable contact order, that contact should reduce. Odd.

I wonder if perhaps when you are on one side of a situation, those on the other can never win. I have seen many posters on MN insist that contact with parents is the thing of paramount importance - that to put children building hobbies and friendships above the contact arrangements with the other parent is not acting in their best interest. Yet here is a young adult whose parents have done just that - put the contact rota above all else, and they've still done it wrong? In that case, what is the "right" way? Is it the relationship with the parent, or building interests and friendships that is deemed most "important"?

lol at wicked stepmothers. Do you spend your whole life engaged in pantomime talk or do you restrict it to particular subjects on mn?

No-one has made a link between the lack of a court order and time spent at his fathers house, actually, except for you.

My DSSs (15, 17) often come here when their father isn't around. This is their home and they come here to do things like study, have meals, relax, chat to me, play with their little sister and all the standard things one does at home. It isn't just about being with a bio parent. I also do things with them when DP isn't around - yesterday DD, DSS2 and I all went to the hairdresser together.

I don't understand why Petal02 cannot extend the same sort of welcome to her DSS since he clearly wants to spend time in the home of his father and stepmother.

But the boy is lucky enough to have two homes. Why is it so terrible for him to spend more time at one than the other because it's virtually impossible for the father to do the ferrying?

Dss and his mum could be pro active in arranging transport. Neither are choosing to take the initiative and both are expecting petal and the boys father to do it all.

It doesn't take a genius to work out where the boys lack of initiative comes from?

Optimistic why does either have to be 'more important'. Surely both are achievable?

I don't know the back story to all this, but the whole number-of-hours thing is really bothering me. Are we looking at it the wrong way round? Perhaps it isn't that this young man wants to spend as much time as possible with his father (which does not seem likely as he is content with time at his father's home without his father being there). Perhaps he wants to spend the maximum time away from his mother? OP has said it was the mother's house move which created the distance between the two homes ("the ex moved away to be nearer her new husbands job."), and that the mother is not willing to bring her son to their home.

I wonder how comfortable this young man is in his mother's home that he goes to such lengths to maximise his absence from it.

I would happilly spend time with engaging and enthused teenage children as they can be very interesting to spend time with. Listless apathetic disinterested in life teenagers - not so much.

Whereyouleftit - I suspect it's the mother wanting him to spend time away from her rather than the other way round

And there is a world of a difference between a 15yo girld spending every night with her boyfriend in stead of studying, versus an 18 year old having no friends or hobbies whatsoever

But this situation has been going on from way before he was 18 hasn't it?

His lack of outside interests and desire to be with his father has been going on for some time.

Allnew, my boys do football on a Saturday morning. It has several benefits for them, not least that it is a hobby. Something that can be written on a personal statement. It is local to my house, so if my ex had them from Thu-Sun every other weekend and didn't live locally (as in the case of Petal's DSS) then he wouldn't be able to take them on those weekends, making it difficult to maintain. Because I have 3 children, they often have various activities and parties on different evenings/weekends. It wouldn't work out if they had contact with their father away from their local area. I have seen posters in this exact situation who have been told that the contact with the father is more important than anything else, and that if he can't or won't take them to parties and activities then the children should stop the activity rather than reduce contact.

Hobbies and friendships are often built from childhood. If parents stuck to a rota at the exclusion of those it's hardly surprising that they are left with an 18 year old who shows very little evidence of either.

Well if you're going to split hairs I will adjust the statment to read as follows but still be equally as valid:

"And there is a world of a difference between a 15yo girld spending every night with her boyfriend in stead of studying, versus teenager having no friends or hobbies whatsoever"

Apart from anything else, there may have been legal ramifications involved in the 15yo's relationship. I don't know because I haven't looked back at petals old threads like a stalker

But the 18yo in this case has been dead set on the rota himself. I've not got the impession ever that he's ever suggested doing anything else. So although I agree that your example can and does happen, it isn't relevant for Petal's DSS

How does knowing older threads make you a stalker? Dramatic much?

Amberleaf - That's sad about the estranged daughter. So much destruction.

It's absurd that Mr Petal wanted his daughter to go out less and Mrs Petal wants the son to go out more. Perhaps she's trying to push him the way of the daughter, so he becomes excommunicated. Just hang on in there, Petal, and keep doing what you're doing.

theredhen - obviously the parent present during contact is ideal, but in real life it isn't always possible. And to ensure stability for the child/teen, it's much better if the contact schedule is accommodated.

I think a stict contact schedule is the way to go and any alterations should be agreed with the other parent in advance and in writing.

It wasn't just being familiar with Petal's threads in general though, was it. Actually Petal's threads have made very little mention of the elder DSD, so either the person quoting that has a particular interest in Petal and remembers everything she says to Mastermind specialist subject standard, or was specifically looking back at older threads with a fine tooth comb

I would have looked up Petal's old threads if I had the time. I usually do when the thread concerns an ongoing or complicated issue. When I don't, I usually find any advice I offer is useless way off base.

"I think a stict contact schedule is the way to go and any alterations should be agreed with the other parent in advance and in writing"

So I have a 17yo DSS. He should come to ours at 6pm this Friday. If he is for whatever reason unavailble until say 7pm, should his mother have a requirement to let my DH know in advance and in writing?

So now the picture is of a teenage boy who isn't happy in his mother's house, and he doesn't get welcomed into his dad's house (which, as people have said, is clearly not intended to be thought of as his home), quite the reverse. How sad for him.

"Did his mother actually have a child with the expectation that she could get rid of him for 4 nights a fortnight?" Did his father have a child with the notion that he would only ever see him for a maximum of 4 nights a fortnight? All this cuts both ways.

"I would have looked up Petal's old threads if I had the time. I usually do when the thread concerns an ongoing or complicated issue"

Really - hundreds and hundres of posts? Wow - you clearly have more time on your hands than me!

Stalker? umm ok. Its on Mumsnet which is a public forum its not like ive gone through her diary!

I specifically remembered that there was an older child that Petals DH no longer sees and yes I looked at older posts to double check before I mentioned it.

I call that being sure of facts before I brought it up and I think its highly relevant to the current situation.

Why has somebody now decided that he's not happy in his mother's house?

""Did his mother actually have a child with the expectation that she could get rid of him for 4 nights a fortnight?" Did his father have a child with the notion that he would only ever see him for a maximum of 4 nights a fortnight? All this cuts both ways"

The poster specifically implied that the mother should have the expectation of being able to get rid of the 'child' 4 nights a fortnight. This doesn't apply to the father, as the mother has residence. Also the other chose to move to a place far from his fathers, making it difficult for his father to facilitate the weekly contact. She can't have her cake and eat it, life isn't like that. She is also fixated on the level of child maintenance so I doubt she'd be happy with anything else

allnewtaketwo. it took about 5-10 mins max. not hard.

But the problem with the elder daughter pre-dated Petal didn't it? So how are the 2 situations related?

Im not sure if it pre dated Petal? why does that mean anything?

The situations are possibly related because it could be affecting the boys relationship with his father which is the real issue.

This is not all about Petal!