DSS is now 18 - surely things must change ......... ?

[Petal02]

So DSS has now celebrated (he didn?t have a party, he just wanted to go out for a meal with DH and I) his 18th birthday and starts back at 6th Form College (for his second year of A levels) next week. I?d like some honest opinions, especially from those of you who know the background details.

We?ve been operating flexible-ish visiting for the last few months, with some minor resistance from DSS, and on the whole it?s worked OK. DSS now works on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, just round the corner from where he lives with his mother. DH had (unsuccessfully) tried to ferry DSS to/from his workplace during his alternate weekend stays with us, but given the distances involved, it just meant DH spending Saturday and Sunday on the road, whereas if DSS had been based at his mothers, it?s literally a two minute walk. So DH has had to concede that it?s impractical to keep DSS with us beyond Saturday lunch time on access weekends.

DSS is very keen that he still has the same amount of time with his Dad, even though DH works Monday-Friday and DSS works Saturday and Sunday. Even DH had reluctantly agreed this is impractical. However as access weekends used to run from Thursday 4pm til Sunday 6pm, and now they?re shorter because they finish at lunch time on Saturday (before DSS starts his afternoon shift),DSS wants to shift his visits so that they run from Tuesday 4pm til Saturday lunch time. I understand that he?s losing two weekend days with his Dad, as he?s now working, and wants two extra week nights to compensate.

But having an ?access weekend? that starts on Tuesday (!!!!!!!) even though it finishes on Saturday lunch time, seems ridiculous for an adult. And that?s what DSS is now, he?s an adult. It surely can?t be realistic to maintain the same amount of contact hours that he had when he was 11, not when he?s working at weekends, and it?s logistically very difficult for DH to bring him over to us on a Tuesday night, because that means he needs lifts to/from college on Weds/Thurs/Fri which impacts greatly on DH?s work. Not to mention that DH and I often do stuff on weeknights. Should we stop these things because DH has an adult son?

In my opinion, things surely have to change ???. I don?t see why (although tell me if I?m wrong) DSS can?t be OK with Thursday 4pm-Sat lunch time? Yes, it?s less time with his Dad but he?s 18 now. Of course they still want to see each other, but I?m amazed that an 18 yr old wants so much rostered time with a parent. I?m also worried that DSS may cease his weekend job if he can?t maintain the same amount of contact with DH.

DH hasn't given DSS an answer on his Tuesday-Saturday request yet. I want to talk to DH about it tonight or tomorrow. But before I do, I?d like some opinions from fellow SMs. I don?t want to spend four consecutive weekend nights hanging out with DH?s adult son, just so that ? x? amount of weekly hours can be achieved. I think it?s all insane but I suspect I?m too close to the situation to see it clearly.

Ive name changed for this as this thread is making me really, really angry.

My A Level aged student is a RAPE VICTIM, I would be absolutely horrified to encourage a symbiotic relationship between me, him and exh to the exclusion of friends and a social life. Our focus has been to get DD back to a "normal" life, with her peer group.

At the age of 18, there should be more to life than staying in with mum and dad, I have read all of petals thread in the past.

I would be massively concerned about an 18 year old, who has no friends, no life and no inclination to work. There is a huge underlying problem and if you ask me it is the infantalising of a young man by parents who are too scared to let their little boy grow up.

It is NOT RIGHT, the way he lives, or that he wants to live, there is something really and severely wrong with this, he is never going to cope in uni unless there are some drastic changes and quickly.

I cry every night that DD isn't living the same life as her peer group, and she has 50 times the social life of this young man.

Why can't he stay 2 nights a week instead of 4 a fortnight? I'm assuming alternate weekends were put in place originally so that both parents had one weekend with him and one without, but if he's only staying half the weekend would it not make more sense to do that every week?

Fair enough I can see why you might expect an 18 yr old to be more adhoc about staying at his dad's but if he literally can't get there without pre-arranging it, how can you expect that to work?

I do wonder why many are so quick to blame op for not wanting this new regime? Why is the boys mother and husband not helping with transport for her son?

Petal just wants her dss to spread his wings and grow up. She only feels resentful of him because he refuses to do it and her dp and his ex seem content to allow it.

I'm sure petal would rather spend time chatting about her day to a young man who takes responsibility for himself and shows respect for his parents rather than have a young man sitting in his room for the sake of the rota.

Petal is only human. I much prefer times with my own son when he shows positivity and determination rather than apathy and helplessness. Is that so unusual?

Hear hear whyonearth. There is nothing 'normal' about the DSS's behaviour, and to facilitate it regardless would be ignoring a large problem imo

So sorry to hear about our DD

I've stopped posting for a long time now but I've been reading Petal02 posts for years now. If this were simply an issue about independence and growing up, then there would be some understanding.

However Bonsoir and Amber (and some others) are spot on here.

If you read all OPs posts, and catch the relevant admissions, the you see that the OP, Petal02 -
she dislikes DSS
she wants flexible rota -- to be able to reduce visits, not increase or only vary when they happen
she wants DSS independent -- so he goes away out of her life

All this growing up, needs to be independent, flexible, is just from someone who has put a lot of smoke around the core fact. She has no actual interest in DSS well being, but just wants him grown up and out (and her DSS knows this).

holding I disagree, I too have been reading Petals posts for years, and I see a massive amount of frustration at the way they are living, that DSS isnt being allowed to grow and develop.

Do you actually think an 18 year old should have no friends, no social life then.

Petal is in a totally abnormal situation, I don't think she would have any issue at all, with DSS having a key and coming and going as he pleases, whenever he likes, I don't even think she would care if he lived with them.

The issue here is the relationship between him and parents is more akin to that of a much younger child, in fact, my 2 year old probably is more socialable.

Another thing Petal needs to recognise. As she cuts her husband's hours with his son, the hours for the boy's mother necessarily rise. The boy's mother has no alternative but to pick up the slack, when Petal stamps her foot and persuades her husband that it is all too much. It is entirely unfair. Imagine if the mother suddenly decided that contact hours should rise, she would not unilaterally just decide that.

Is there a contact order, btw?

Lots of 18 year olds have very little social life. My eldest son went out 4 times in his sixth form (both years) and he's perfectly normal and well adjusted. There just aren't a whole load of places you can go before you turn 18.

The DSS sounds like a good kid.

As she cuts her husband's hours with his son, the hours for the boy's mother necessarily rise

That is the biggest pile of bollox on this thread, he is 18, his hours with his mother shouldnt be rising, his hours with his peers should be rising.

Why can't he get on a bus?? Why is it drive me or nothing?? Yes public transport is a pain in the arse, but I managed it for YEARS.

really?? no where to go??

Football, rugby, gym, dance, friends houses, having people over, shopping, cinema, bowling, just out??

Thats off the top of my head, there is absolutely tons for an under 18 to do, if only they have the get up and go to do it, although that does make it clear why you are taking the view you are.

Also hear hear to whyonearth.

A bit of perspective on this, going back to the reason for contact arrangements - Mum and Dad are no longer together, the child in this case lives with his mother and has contact visits with his father. The contact visits are not to with his father's house, not to spend time away from his mother but to spend time with his father - that is the purpose of contact visits.

He seems to have got it into his head that he has to spend x amount of time at his mum's house and x amount of time at his dad's house regardless of whether his dad is actually there for any of that time - which is just wrong.

I would be interested to know what he does during his time with his mother, - is she also concerned that he never goes out, or does he go out?

and this from theredhen

"I'm sure petal would rather spend time chatting about her day to a young man who takes responsibility for himself and shows respect for his parents rather than have a young man sitting in his room for the sake of the rota"

exactly.

Is there a contact order, btw?

He's 18 ffs!

An adult.

The "contact arrangement" should be - "hey Dad, I'm thinking of stopping over next weekend, can get to you Thursday evening - are you about?"

frieda any contact order would have expired at 16 so its not relevant.

I think Petal is pissed off at DSS. I dont think thats unreasonable given what the backstory is, but I also think, and I think she knows that, that the actual person she should be pissed off at is her DP. He has enabled this situation, sometimes to sheer ridiculousness.

The mum also seems to be completely unwilling to do any of the transport, and whilst shes happy to send DSS off to Petals for the required hours shes not willing to help facilitate this.

Bottom line is for Petals DP to drive DSS to college and collect him Wed, Thur, Fri is not workable.

I live in a really rural location growing up. There isnt evena bus stop for 5 miles, and the closest town was 8 miles away. I had to be ferried everywhere. Ive suggested going to a college in the opposite direction to my parents work (and they were seperated and lived 15mins from each other), which took 3 hours out of their working day ive have been told politely to get lost or even not politely at all

I can understand Petals DSS wanting to keep the time with his dad. As I said my DB did a similar situation, and I do think the DSS is clinging on because he feels if he doesnt its a slippery slope to no contact, and also hes been expected to live his life by the rota for so long, by both his parents, that perhaps he views this as what has to be done.

"The boy's mother has no alternative but to pick up the slack"

What slack? I have a child and don't get any 'slack' (although I sure hope to have when my child is 18 )

"Is there a contact order, btw?"

What's that got to do with anything? Even if there had been, it would have expired when he was 16.

'Hours with peers should be rising' - maybe, but he still has to sleep somewhere. While boys of this age might stay the occasional night at a friend's, that still basically means the mother having him living there for the extra 4 nights because he 'can't' go to his dad's. It is implicitly expecting more of the mother.

I would be interested to know whether, if the DSS could make his own way to their house and could get himself to and from college, the staying 4 nights in the week would still be a problem to the OP.

So why is not ok for dss mother to pick up the "slack" but it's ok for petal?

It's ok for a birth mother to not want to see her son but not a step mother??!

Hmm ohChrist Fenton - Contact visits are not actually only for contact, legally they are shared care arrangements: sharing responsibility for your child. There is no legal demand for the father to be present during his contact, so long as he has delegated to an appropriate adult.

I do think that in the case of many children (especially if the rota remains rigid and age-inappropriate throughout teenage years), a very rigid rota has the effect of developing something akin to robot 'slave to the rota' mindset. Like they can't think of anything outside that.

In the case of my DSS, I think it has been partially responsible for his stunted emotional and social development. During the hours set out in a (now expired) court order 10 years ago, his life only exists to abide by the rota. no outside activities, no friends. Can't entertain himself - he sees that as dad's job, as per the rota, this is his time with dad. Wouldn't occur to him to want to spend time with his dad outside of that, even if that would be in addition to the fixed time, because this wasn't in the rota. He himself has missed out on stuff that occurred when as per the rota, he should be ad dad's. His mother (like Petal's DSS's mother), loves the rota, and so her son is wedded to it. He is now 17 and to this day says "what are we doing next dad" on a daily basis each time he is at our house. Can't think for himself. Will (imho) be in for a great almighty shock when he starts university and there is a requirement to think for himself and plan is own time.

"that still basically means the mother having him living there for the extra 4 nights because he 'can't' go to his dad's. It is implicitly expecting more of the mother"

Did his mother actually have a child with the expectation that she could get rid of him for 4 nights a fortnight? Surely if you have a child you expect it to be a permanent thing rather than a temporary arrangement

frieda legal schmegal, the essence of contact visits is to spend time with the NRP not in an empty house, not with the stepmother.

Agree with holdingpattern. I also agree with bonsoir, which I almost never do. All this desire for DSS to "be more independent" is a thinly veiled attempt by petal to get him out of her house more, so she can have more attention from her DH. It's not pretty

How many threads have I read on mn from pwc's complaining that an nrp isn't actually spending time with the child during access visits. Literally hundreds of threads full of this exact complaint.

Re the boys lack of social life;

He has an older sister who Petals husband has been estranged from for some years (since she was around 15-16?)

They fell out over Petals DH being unhappy about her having a boyfriend and going out on school nights.

They no longer have a relationship.

Is it possible that DSS is clinging to his father and rejecting a 'normal' for his age social life because he fears his fathers disapproval and worries that he too will become estranged from him?

As I said previously his behavior screams insecurity-maybe the issue between his father and sister has a baring on how he feels?

Why not have contact when the young mans father is actually there? Rather than inconvenience petal and his dad? Why delegate the responsibility to petal?

Heaven help the poor mother having to spend an extra evening or two with her own son!

Why does a step-child always need to be warranted an excuse for the way they behave. This doesn't happen on mn to non-step children.

And there is a world of a difference between a 15yo girld spending every night with her boyfriend in stead of studying, versus an 18 year old having no friends or hobbies whatsoever