DP's ex making arrangements in our time

[Lala1980]

DP's 4 children stay with us EO weekend. DP's ex-wife drops kids to us 5pm on Friday evening, DP takes them home by 6pm Sunday. This basic agreement to my knowledge is court ordered. DP does not have great relationship with his ex. She witholds communication regarding the children and rarely replies to his texts or emails.
The kids live approx 15 miles round trip from us.
Ex wife texted this morning to say youngest DSS (4) has party until 6pm where they live so she will drop the other 3 over at 5pm but DP must pick youngest up at 6pm.
I personally feel that this is unreasonable as we only have one car and I am not always about, so even if DP has access to a car at that time, he would have to drag the other three kids out as soon as they arrive to pick up the youngest.
My personal opinion is that ex wife should not accept invitations or make arrangements for the kids on DP's contact weekends. That is his time with his children, he doesn't get a lot of time with them because of his work, and he treasures that time. To be honest, he doesn't want them missing out on parties and school stuff, so 9 times out of 10, he wouldn't turn down the invitation either, but unless he has the car and childcare for the other 3 in place, the other 3 get dragged from pillar to post if one child has a party...
AIBU? I personally feel that ex wife should have asked if it was possible to pick youngest up at 6pm, or suggested she would bring them all over a 5 not 6pm...
Are other people happy when ex makes arrangements for the kids that affect their DP's time with them, or is this normal (I am not a biological mother myself)...

AhoySailor.. I know there's no answers, but on some level it helps to know we're not the only ones. Thanks for replying. Much sympathy to you too.

What it seems to come down to, is that trying to do everything (have quality time with both parents, go to parties, go to clubs, keep up with both families, have trips/holidays) is difficult, as there are only so many hours in the day. If you think about, this is a problem that a lot of people have, regardless of child/parenting situations!

So this means, choices have to be made. The children, as much as we should be encouraging independent thinking/taking their opinions seriously, are not really old enough to make these decisions alone, as they are complicated and they cannot possibly understand the repercussions fully.

So the question come downs to how to make the decisions about what the children do. It seems in a lot of the situations being discussed here, the RP feels that it is their right to make all the decisions about what the child does, and that the NRP does not have the right to make these decisions.

In our situation, from what I've heard her say, I think this is because the Ex feels that as my DP doesn't do 50% of the parenting, she earns the right to make these decisions as she does the majority of the care. She also feels that as they live with her most of the time, their life is there, and that by taking them to stuff where we live, rather than where they live, we are creating two separate lives which is damaging. I think as the children are always living, wherever they are, they are able to make one continuous life for themselves, and that if both parents are enthusiastic about all parts of their lives, then they can achieve this!

It feels as though, until a court says DP has the right to decide what DSCs do when they're with him, we're up against a brick wall. If we had this reassurance that time would not be taken away, it would be very easy to support taking them to parties and clubs, as DP would be confident of knowing when he was seeing his kids. The issue comes when someone else makes those decisions and you just have to fit around them. So it does feel as though the only option is to stand your ground.. but as you say, doesn't get you very far a lot of time. But as DP said to me yesterday, all he has left is his integrity... so hold on to it.

Thank you for taking time to read and respond... it helps just to discuss it, to get my thoughts straight, so I can stay strong for my partner (and for me too!). It feels very selfish, just going into my situation in depth like this - so thank you for indulging me.

As a Mum, I'd say go to court. However, who moved 100 miles away? The DC's mum or the DC's dad? It makes a difference IMO. As does whether she left him as he had an affair.

If he has an affair (no assumptions here, just an IF) and she moved away to be nearer her family, then I think you have to grin and bear the distance, and the issues caused by that, as it's his own fault that the mother needed support.

If she is still in the marital home, and the father moved away, to be with a new partner, then again, he has to grin and bear the issues caused by the distance, as it would have been his choice to move away from the DC's.

However, if the mother moved away to be with a new partner (through an affair or a later relationship), then SHE should stop being bloody obstructive and sort something out.

I think in all these instances, a court order may be necessary, to tighten up contact so it's not messed with.

But bear in mind what the REASON for the 100 mile distance is. If it was not the MOTHER'S choice for there to be that distance, or she HAD to move for family support, then it is unfair to blame HER for the lack of contact and children not wanting to miss sports and parties.

IMO if the father chooses to move away, he has to accept that contact will suffer.

Yes, it does helplittlelamby knowing we are not the only ones here going through this.

We (me and dp) seem to struggle every weekend we have his son staying with us to find time to do just the everyday normal things, plus some nice things, plus attend to any other needs of his son my have.

When my partner decides to do something exciting with his son like going on a rollercoaster (a really small, pathetic one ... one for kiddies), the mum goes bloody nuts when she finds out (once the child has been returned home), yet it's okay for her to take him on a rollercoaster (a really huge, fast one).

Double standards!!

I have many more examples of this, but I won't bore everyone ... no doubt everyone else has similar stories too

If you lived in the same town you would have a midweek overnight as well, and you should be having the DC's for half of all school holidays too.

I can't understand why anyone would move 100 miles away from their DC's other parent?!

I have two Ex's that I have DC's with, and we all live in the same town, so that our DC's see both parents for a decent amount of time, without disrupting them going to weekend activities and parties, and so that their fathers can do a school run a week (or two a fortnight but in the same week in 2nd Ex's case due to work shifts).

Why would anyone, RP or NRP want to move so far away from their child's other parent. My Ex's never would! They would lose so much contact time that moving away from this town just wouldn't occur to them, for ANY reason!

Unfortunately CouthyMow not all parents (mums or dads) have the option of living in the same town as their child(ren).

My partner moved in with me (35 miles away from ex) due to the marital home being sold as part of the divorce ... SHE had already moved out several years before this, to another town 50 miles away (after she had an affair and moved in with this guy!!! ... took child with her .... she is not with him now either!! ... totally upsetting and confusing time for son who was 3 at that time), ... 35 miles away is slightly better than being 50 miles away (so effectively he's moved slightly closer to his son).

But my partner is prepared to travel, ... he knew it would be him who would have to do all the running around, collecting his son, etc. He's trying not to miss a moment of his sons life ... (wouldn't have missed any of his son's life at all if ex-wife hadn't run off and had an affair!!)

We know the situation isn't ideal and that potentially we should be living in the same town as her, but due to work, etc, etc ... it makes sense for us to live where we are. Where we live doesn't detract from my partner and his effort to see his son.

Yes, I agree, it is better if the parents of the child(ren) can live closer, and take equal responsibility for that child, but unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way.

CouthyMow - DP and Ex were living in one place when together. She moved away (back to her parents - totally understand why you would do that), about 200 miles. He then moved, to get a job and to stay with his family while he sorted himself out, resulting in the 100 mile gap. He also moved onto a direct train connection to the nearest station (Ex lives in a village with no public transport). I met him 2 years after break up (which was mutual - relationship breakdown, no affairs and in fact they will both tell you they left the other!), when he was just getting himself back on his feet financially and emotionally.

So I don't feel there's anyone to blame for where we're all living, so the best thing would be for everyone to accept the situation and work out something that works for DP, Ex and children!

We do want to move closer, but we also want to do that in a sustainable way (both financially and emotionally). We could rush into it, but for the sake of a year or two, it feels better to wait and (try to) find good jobs that we enjoy and can support ourselves with, and to sort out DP's finances (wrecked after separation!) so we can get a mortgage and hopefully buy a family home. It currently feels like with the jobs we have, we can offer where we currently live more than rushing the process of moving there. Like Ahoysailor says - where the father lives doesn't detract from his care for his children, or his ability to be their father - it's just different to how it would be if he lived closer.

couthy your conviction is admirable - but somewhat removed from reality!

Only yesterday, you were berating my DP for not having a job so being unable to pay CM. Today, you are equally emphatic that separated parents should remain living in close proximity to each other.

My reality is very different from the one you portray, and I'm sure I'm not alone! People are making incredibly hard decisions every day - whether to see their DCs less and support them financially, whether to put their home at risk, whether to remove a child from daily contact with a parent for a chance of financial security.

If your life has been unaffected by these issues, then good for you! But please, please try and accept that your reality is not everyone else's, and that your simplistic solutions really aren't applicable.

Ahoy sailor - but in that case, the mother moved away first, so SHE should be the one doing the travelling IMO. Not the father. I hold no grudges against men, whatsoever! The one who moves away first should do the travelling, surely, as they are the one that caused the distance between their DC and their other parent.

And I didn't say it was an affair, to the other poster, I was VERY careful to say IF, not that it was, I think that was misread!

I was trying to make the point that IF there was a sensible reason for the distance, then the mother should stop being bloody obstructive and she should COMMUNICATE better.

I still can't see why she can't at least text your partner as soon as she knows there is a sports fixture or a party.

I don't think she should wait for your partner to ok it first though, I think it should just be assumed that if the child wants to attend a friend's party, it should be fine for them to go, no matter WHOSE weekend it is. Unless you have already communicated to the mother that you have plans for x weekend, so please don't book sports or parties then. You don't have to say what, just that the DC will be busy.

Also, with a lot of weekend activities, you CAN'T do every other weekend, the child HAS to commit to every weekend, every fixture, or they can't do the activity at all. Which is unfair on the child. Why should they miss out on something they want to do just because their parents are separated?

Unless she is nasty enough to deliberately scupper plans when given advance notice, then tell her to keep x weekend free etc. if she IS nasty enough to scupper premade plans, unless it is for an unmovable sporting fixture that the DC has been committed to doing (in which case SHE should communicate that to YOU in advance), then court all the way.

But court WILL result in the DC's having to stop weekend activities if their chosen activity is something that you have to commit EVERY weekend to. Whether the DC's want that or not.

It is possible to get a NMW job ANYWHERE. It doesn't require moving. It may not be what that person is used to, but is a job and some form of support nonetheless.

Of course my life has been affected by these issues,I have had to turn down a job offer that would have significantly increased mine and my DC's standard of living so that I didn't move away from the town where their Father's are.

I don't see how it's simplistic to put my DC's emotional needs and needing to be close to their fathers first, before making money. They need both parents, and their contact (and emotions) would have suffered had I taken the job. So I didn't.

Hardly simplistic. It was a straight choice - move 100 miles away for a job and good money and affect their level of contact, or forego the job in order that they had the same level of access. The access won out for me, even though my standard of living is much lower because I didn't take the job.

Ok couthy I bow to your superior knowledge over the circumstances I find myself in.

My DP should indeed take a NMW job - the closest is a 90 minute public transport commute away according to Job Centre Plus but you obviously know different? - so that he can financially support his DCs to attend guitar and riding lessons (which have continued unaffected despite his exW repeatedly telling the DCs that she is on the bones of her arse financially.)

In the meantime the reduction in our household income through my lost tax credits and council tax benefit and DPs additional commuting costs would lead to us, including my DD, becoming homeless as we would be unable to keep up mortgage payments.

Perhaps its me thats being too simplistic, In a choice between DSC's music lessons or DDs home, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone when I say I'd chose the latter.

I find your constant implied criticism of Dads that are doing the best they possibly can in very difficult circumstances quite offensive, tbh.

Can I play devil's advocate here?
I am relatively new to all this step-parenting malarky, so please tell me if my observations are way off the mark, but why do so many people on here treat children from broken homes differently from children not from broken homes?
All the advice on this thread seems to agree that if there is a party invite, the child MUST attend no matter who's weekend it takes place during. There seems to be no concept of the child can't go if we're busy/away, don't have transport, can't afford it...
I was not from a broken home, and it didn't mean I got to go to every social event and party going when I was a child - I only went if we were available on that date, someone could take me, and if it had financial implications, if we could afford for me to go...
Whilst I appreciate it must be hard for children from broken homes, indulging them and acting like they deserve extra special treatment because their parents have split up, will surely lead to them being spoiled, indulged, entitled children with unreal expectations of real life?

Ah, helpme i couldn't agree more but that opinion is in the minority!

The poor, innocent victims of parental separation need special treatment to make up for the tragic lives they've had

Yes, CouthyMow I fully agree, in this instance it should be the mum doing all the travelling with their child, since SHE was the one who decided to have the affair, move away, etc, but that is never ever going to happen with this woman - ever!

She is one out-and-out lazy BLEEP, BLEEP BLEEP ... insert whatever sweary words you wish.

The frustrating part being, she travels to the town where we live almost daily, due to there being better shops, better transport links etc, but does she ever bother to contact my partner to tell him to meet up (in the town where we live) so he can go collect his son (or drop son off at our house) ... NO

She never has, she never will ... she is awkward!!!
She would rather travel to our town with son, do shopping, go home again and wait for my partner to come to collect his son, rather than be slightly useful and reasonable and drop him off with us (even though a couple of times she has just been arriving at her house (having had to rush back to her house), just as my partner is turning up to collect him).

Even when she left all those years ago, it was always my partner who had to travel to see his son (yes, he did attempt to get her to do it, but she just refused and said if he didn't come for their son then he wouldn't see him!! ... there is only so long my partner can go without seeing his child).

She won't even consider meeting half-way (which would be useful too) ... if my partner doesn't come to get his son, he's not going to see him ... which then makes her call him a useless father!!!!!!!!!

I have many, many stories about this woman and her attitude, her behaviour, but this isn't the appropriate thread. Sorry, went off into rant mode again

Agreed HelpMe - just because they have separated parents shouldn't lead to the children being spoiled and entitled. In some cases, they have tow fabby homes with lovely families and step families on both sides.
I know we moan on here, but sometimes, it's not all bad for the kids!!!

I think that the issue in this thread is ultimately one of the mother trying to retain total control over her DCs' lives, and to marginalise the father. A party (or sports engagement, or whatever) is just another way to prevent her exH from seeing his DC freely.

Agreed Bonsoir.

indeed, bonsoir!

So, here's one example - my DS1 has wanted to go to football training on a Saturday morning since he was 7yo. It is not something you can do every other weekend, you have to commit to EVERY weekend barring illness. I have had to say no for 3 full years because his dad is refusing to take him despite DS1 being desperate to go.

Why should DS1 have to miss out on an activity he has desperately wanted to do for 3 years just because his parents are separated?

My ex has nothing against football, is happy that DS1 likes football, yet is preventing DS1 from joining the team as it will be out of 'his' time every other weekend.

If we had been together he wouldn't have had an issue with it.

To me that says he isn't putting DS1 first.

Now that he has stopped seeing DS1 (his choice I might add) why on earth SHOULDN'T I sign him up for footy? But I'll bet that when he takes me to court again (like the last 3 times, he won't just say to me can we restart contact, the first thing I will know when he decides to see him again is when a court date drops on my doormat), DS1 will have to stop.

It's NOT 'spoiling' DS1 because he's from a 'broken home', but simply letting him attend an activity that he wants to do. Not asking ex to pay for it, just get up and take him, but he wouldn't even though he lives within walking distance, closer than me, to the football ground.

If DS1's dad and me were still together, DS1 would go. If DS1 was with me every weekend, he would go. But because his dad and I are divorced, he can't go.

That's not spoiling someone as they're from a 'broken home', it's your DC wanting to do something perfectly normal that all their friend's do.

My yardstick is : would they have done this activity, or gone to this party, if my ex and I were still together?

If yes, then IMO he should go.
If no, then IMO he shouldn't go.

I don't see why a child has to miss out just because their parents aren't together. If it is something DS1 would have got to do if ex & I were together, then why should he miss out just because we are not.

And that also includes the party invites DS1 got from Ex's house that were on my weekend. I'd take DS1 anyway, because he shouldn't have to miss, say, his cousin from his dad's side's birthday party just because it is 'my' weekend.

OP it seems your problem is very common! However, it's a fine line between providing continuity for the kids and anoiying the other parent by arrnanging things without them knowing.

Cowthy, we have a very similar situation... my DP's son loves swimming. He wants to learn to swim. they have him alternate weeks My daughter starts the new term of lessons in September and he wants to too. Swimming lessons have to be same day every week (bar very expensive one to one lessons which we can't afford). DP has suggested it to his EX many times but she just ignores it. He has offered to go halves or pay all the cost if she's ignoring it for financial reasons. Offered to let her pick the day and time (they are after school lessons) and even offered collect DSS from school that day. take him to his lesson and drop him back or keep him overnight that night, whichever is most convenient for her. He's even offered to book the swimming lessons for the pool near her house not near his to make it easier for her. She has now complained that she feels he is trying to control "her" time with DSS and that children don't "need" to learn to swim, it's an optional extra rather than a necesscity.

As we see it DSS doesn't have two lives he has one "his". Why should he miss out on things because his parents have separated. It's baffling but DP's EX doesn't listen or seem to want to create a sense of continuity at all. I don't think it'll be much longer before DSS will be able to fully voice his own wants though and hopefully It will have more swap than DP!

God she must be really annoying! If my ex offered to pay for swimming lessons for swimming lessons for one of my DC's, I'd jump at the chance!

If there is a big family event that occurs at any time outside of the formal 'access visits' then DSSs are not allowed to attend, despite being 16 and 13. Their mother will simply not allow anything outside of the rota. They have missed all kinds of normal big family events that they would have enjoyed because of this. She doesn't have, or provide a reason to anybody.

Yet she has routinely arranged for them to do stuff while they are with us with very little notice indeed.

I think that if both parents genuinely have the best interests at heart then this stuff wouldn't happen

CouthyMow ... Yes, some mums can be great and very reasonable with their ex's, but others can be very annoying, stupid and unreasonable.

This is what happens with my DP and his son too.

DP has offered to pay for and take him to swimming lessons (because his son really does need them, as he isn't confident in water), offers to pay for and take him to Beavers, to pay for after-school clubs/extra activities etc, but at every turn he is told where to go from his ex-wife.

The stupidity is ...
SHE then complains to DP that he isn't doing anything to help his son,

SHE complains (to her friends and anyone who'll listen) that DP isn't paying for anything (DP pays CSA and is offering to pay for all these activities)

SHE says he is a useless father, who doesn't care for his son!!!

She is annoyed because all these activities would be taking place during HER time (but since she has rectricted access to DP seeing his son so much, of course it would be during her time ... everything is during her time!!!!!)

It's frustrating that SHE rules over everything that the son does or doesn't do ... DP's son needs to be out and about, interacting with other kids and having a childhood ... SHE seems to think that staying indoors, watching tv or going out for shopping trips (for HER to get clothes), is all HER child needs to do ... because that's all she ever does.

Some dads just want to be dads, look after their kids and spend time with them ... it's frustrating

Couthy- Yep! Only other option is paying for the lessons then DSS only going every other week. Just so pointless! It's actually more than her just being difficult - she has massive issues with DP (or me) "doing" things with the children. We like to he busy days and plan lots (often free even just trips to nice places/parks etc) She has said many times she doesn't want to hear about any nice activities we've done with them and if we do any "firsts" all hell breaks loose! :( the kids say she tells them to shut up whenever yet talk about him it me or their time time with DP.

Allnewtaketwo- That's just daft! Surely they're old enough to make twir own decisions about what they want to do.

Ahoysailor- have you had any luck at all getting the DSC's mother to agree to extra curricular activities? My DP is the same and offers to pay and facilitate but she just ignores his and DSS's requests. So odd. She doesn't even normally say no just doesn't comment.

Things are going downhill for DP with his Ex and It is affcting te children. He has said if necessary he will go to court and try and get a formal residency order. They cannot continue co-parenting every other week with no continuity for the kids.