DP's ex making arrangements in our time

[Lala1980]

DP's 4 children stay with us EO weekend. DP's ex-wife drops kids to us 5pm on Friday evening, DP takes them home by 6pm Sunday. This basic agreement to my knowledge is court ordered. DP does not have great relationship with his ex. She witholds communication regarding the children and rarely replies to his texts or emails.
The kids live approx 15 miles round trip from us.
Ex wife texted this morning to say youngest DSS (4) has party until 6pm where they live so she will drop the other 3 over at 5pm but DP must pick youngest up at 6pm.
I personally feel that this is unreasonable as we only have one car and I am not always about, so even if DP has access to a car at that time, he would have to drag the other three kids out as soon as they arrive to pick up the youngest.
My personal opinion is that ex wife should not accept invitations or make arrangements for the kids on DP's contact weekends. That is his time with his children, he doesn't get a lot of time with them because of his work, and he treasures that time. To be honest, he doesn't want them missing out on parties and school stuff, so 9 times out of 10, he wouldn't turn down the invitation either, but unless he has the car and childcare for the other 3 in place, the other 3 get dragged from pillar to post if one child has a party...
AIBU? I personally feel that ex wife should have asked if it was possible to pick youngest up at 6pm, or suggested she would bring them all over a 5 not 6pm...
Are other people happy when ex makes arrangements for the kids that affect their DP's time with them, or is this normal (I am not a biological mother myself)...

We get this all the time too. Dp just rearranges his life (and therefore mine) to accommodate it rather than sometimes say "sorry that's not convenient".

Sparkly I found your message very judgey of us and our situation. I am not sure if I have been clear enough but we do not have a problem with the kids having parties in our time. With 4 of them there is something on nearly every weekend, and in the two years I've been with DP, they've never not been allowed to go to anything. Our issue is always that we are not ever consulted even when they fall on our weekends - we have limited car access, so transport isn't always a given, sometimes we do have plans on our weekends, and a bit of a heads up as to when parties are mean we can arrange transport and reschedule our diary to accommodate. Parties are not organised at a day's notice, the invites must go out in time to give us some warning? So to reiterate, the kids have never not been able to go to a party on their weekends with us.
Secondly, I am not criticising all the fantastic single/lone parents out there who do a great job. I am passing comment on my DP's ex wife who doesn't appear to be doing a great job. Admittedly this does all come via feedback from the kids, snippets we glean from stuff she puts on Facebook, feedback from the kids schools etc... I admit it is not first hand information, but if what we hear is correct, it worries us. I don't want to drag her through the mill on here not having all the facts, but with regards to Sparkly's comment, DP has attended every doctor and hospital appointment for oldest DSS that he has been made aware of and would drop anything for the boy. I can fill you in on the whole story if you have all year, but the mother really hasn't shown concern for him and his ill health on many occasions.
Sorry to rant but I don't want this twisted from my original post.

I think, sadly, you may need to make a bit of a stand if there's a next time and just say no, it's not convenient, you already have plans and this may make her think twice before making commitments on your DH's behalf which he is unaware of! It's just bad practice generally. If the ex and your DH cannot agree to discuss and agree, that is...

Hmmm.... i am not unsympathetic and many here will have seen my posts on similar issues. DH's ex has always done this and it has always been a huge bone of contention. I'm afraid it does also tend to get worse as the DC get older and the ex allows them to make their own plans for seeing friends/ going to parties etc and then expects them to sort it out with their Dad, rather than saying "No. Your time with dad is important, we all need to reach a comprommise."

That said, what your DP's ex is actually suggesting (please correct me if i'm wrong) is that your DH collects his youngest from the party one hour after she has already dropped the other ones off. Would it be unreasonable to either offer to collect them all at the same time (if enough room in the car?) at 6pm or ask her to drop them all off together an hour later? It's just one hour.

DH's ex never drops off the DSCs, all the driving is down to him (unless she just so happens to want to go shopping or do something near our house). Tbh your DP's ex sounds reasonable in comparison to many others. I return to my original point - it's one hour and i do think you might like to consider being a bit flexible on this occasion. As someone else has said though, if it became a regular occurence i would challenge it. Your DP and his ex need to somehow start communicating better for the DCs's sake. And you DP should be making it clear to her right now that this is a one off and he doesn't expect it to become the norm.

HTH.

Thankyou Matana
It was last weekend and we did make all those offers but dps ex will not have the kids a minute extra on her weekend off so I rearranged some stuff to stay in with the other 3 so dp could do the party pick up.
Your advice was really helpful thank you

Would it not be a party that your DSS WANTS to go to? Why should he miss out on a friend's birthday party just because it is his dad's weekend? You do realise that doing that will quickly cause resentment from the child towards its father?

My DS1's dad used to do this until DS1 was old enough to explain how he hated missing his friend's parties, as they always seemed to fall on his dad's weekends. It caused my DS1 to say that he didn't want to go, it is difficult.

Would you want to tell a 4yo that he has to miss his friend's party (a massive event to someone so young)?

At one point, as DS1's dad claimed it was too difficult to get to the parties, I offered to pick him up, take him, and bring him back straight afterwards.

Your DSS's mother obviously realised it's inconvenient timing, but has offered to drop the other DC's off to make it easier for her Ex, all so that her 4yo doesn't miss out on a party he wants to attend.

She can't do right for doing wrong!

Bloody disgusting that she didn't go to hospital when her son was ill!!

CouthyMow: I don't think you have read this post in full. Let me copy and paste an addition I made earlier to the OP:

...we do not have a problem with the kids having parties in our time. With 4 of them there is something on nearly every weekend, and in the two years I've been with DP, they've never not been allowed to go to anything. Our issue is always that we are not ever consulted even when they fall on our weekends - we have limited car access, so transport isn't always a given, sometimes we do have plans on our weekends, and a bit of a heads up as to when parties are mean we can arrange transport and reschedule our diary to accommodate. Parties are not organised at a day's notice, the invites must go out in time to give us some warning? So to reiterate, the kids have never not been able to go to a party on their weekends with us.

Also, ExW did not offer to drop the other DC's off to make it easier for the youngest to attend the party.
I suggested in an earlier post that what would have been better would have been for her to bring them all over at 6pm not 5pm, or keep the other 3 DCs at home until 6pm, then we collect them all at 6pm.
Instead, she dropped 3 of them to us at 5pm, and we had to sort out collecting the youngest.

I understand the odd cross post occurs, but please read a thread in full if you can before making judgey comments, as you may have people wrong.

Yes, when I had read the rest, rather than just the OP, I saw that this wasn't the case. And as for her not visiting her asthmatic DS when he was in hospital - I can't begin to imagine that! I spent my due date with DS3 on a fold-out bed in hospital with DS1 who was on a drip because of his coeliac.

And I also have a DS2 who has severe asthma.

I think that yes, she could easily have brought all 4 DC's at 6pm, though it still would have meant the older 3 being dragged around in a car, just by their mother instead of their father. I can't see what the difference is there though, they still would have been dragged around in a car, does it matter whose? Or is it just the inconvenience?

If your DP and his ex were together, she surely would have left the older 3 with him while dropping off the youngest at the party, so I'm guessing that's what she thought here, drop them with their dad so I only have to take 1. However, surely it would then have made more sense for her to pick him up AFTER the party and drop him at his dad's?

I might get splinters in my bum from sitting on the fence with this one, I can see both sides of it really!

Does she have a new partner? Because if not, then she couldn't have 'kept the older ones at home till 6pm', they would have been in the car with her?

Parties cause SO much hassles when your child has two separate houses!

But the child often doesn't want to miss them.

lala1980 we get this all of the time from my partners ex

There has been many occasions when my partners child has arrived for the weekend, clutching a party invite (for the saturday or sunday), which we have had no prior knowledge of (and basically have to drop everything or change all plans to ensure his son gets to attend).

The worst weekend ever being, ... waking up on a sunday morning, everyone showered, changed, and having late breakfast/brunch and his son getting asked what he'd like to do today ... 'going to 'school friend' 6th birthday party.

Me and partner looked confused. His son retrieves party invite from coat pocket (where that was hidden we have no idea, as partner normally checks for things like that) and the party is due to start in another town 25 minute drive away, in 30 minutes.

Here we are, having had a lazy sunday morning, with a party invite we knew nothing about (even his child hadn't mentioned it all weekend - from Friday night onwards), with no ironed party clothes, no present, no card ... nothing.

Thankfully because this (nearly) happened approximately 3 months before this (a sunday party which we found out about on saturday ... a bit more notice that time!!), I had prepared two emergency 'boy' presents and two emergency 'girl' presents, but they weren't wrapped up.

So we were sorted for a 'boy' present ... I'm rumaging through drawers trying to find cellotape and through cupboard to find wrapping paper. Drove down to the corner shop for a card (three streets away). Meanwhile partner has dragged his son to wardrobe to find something not too crumpled or something which will fit (we used to have limited supply of clothes at that time, but we have been having to stock up on these too, due to these incidents).

10 minutes later, child thrown in car, me and partner in car ... me driving this time, and trying not to break speed limit but trying to get there as fast as we can. Partner in passenger seat trying to ring 'school friend' mums mobile number on invite to tell her we were on our way.

Managed to get there approximately 20 minutes late, but thankfully 'school friends' parents were fine and thanked us for getting him there with such short notice. Phew!!! Don't ever want to be doing that again

I'm a little bit more organised than that now, with emergency presents all wrapped up and a selection of birthday cards, which can be used for other family members children, if not used for emergency parties (notice it's me doing all these things, not my partner)

Now that takes the piss! If I had a party invite for a DC when they were meant to be at their dad's, and the child wanted to go, I'd ask the dad before accepting the invite whether he wanted me to take the DC to the party, or whether he would take the DC to the party.

However, if it was a party my DC wanted to attend, dad saying he's not going would NOT be an option to me - because I would have to deal with the upset when they can't go - they never seem to show that to their dad, as often they aren't there as much, but the mother has to sit and console a sobbing DC who can't go to a party because their dad said no (for whatever reason, under about 9, DC put friends parties above everything, even their own Parent's birthdays!).

That's why now, to me, a DC not being allowed by their father to attend a party that the DC wants to attend just. Won't. Happen.

This party invite stuff happens to us all the time ...

We are NEVER told in advance when a party is happening on OUR weekend, or partner is told (by text message) sometimes 3 or 4 hours in advance, but normally 5 minutes before he is due to pick up his son for the weekend that said son is actually attending or due to be attending a party within the next 5 minutes - half an hour.

If my partner has already gone to pick up his son (biomum lives 30 minute drive away), but son is already at party by then, ... my partner's text messages are either ignored by her (and partner is left sitting outside ex's house for 5 minutes until he is texted back) or he is just TOLD (shouted at) by her, YOU will have to pick him up.

OK, so not a major problem collecting a child from a party, but sometimes the child is at a party in the town where we live and not in the town where she lives, so she has already driven child to party, gone home and then is sitting waiting for my partner/her exH to arrive to collect his son, just for him to be told (or texted) that son is not there, is attending party and that he will have to collect him ... Gggrrrr!!!

What a waste of time, petrol, etc ... If she had bothered to text in advance saying son is attending party, please collect (because it is in your town), then fine.

Biomum?! Bleurgh! I am my DC's only MUM. They might have a SM, but my title is MUM, not 'biomum'. If anyone called me that, I would be forced to vomit on their shoes!

Now, I can't see why the mum can't actually ARRANGE thing with you, of only to be considerate and save the driving and petrol, that's just childish!

CouthyMow I'm new here ... I'm trying to get used to all acronyms, so please be patient with me.
I have never ever claimed to be or ever shall be a mum to my partners child (don't even recognise myself as a step-mum, but others seem to think that's what I am ... apparently) ... I came on this forum to see if others were going through the same shit as me, not be vomited on

the child has its mum (its biological mother), but rather than being rude and calling her 'effin this and effin that' (which I would truely love to do) I will not lower myself to her level of communication that she has for us. I couldn't call her a MUM to that child.

Anyway ... In regards to your other post
Yes, we can't see why she can't be normal and communicate with my partner and give him advanced notice of these things. Yes, she is childish, she is rude ... unfortunately she is everything which MUM's shouldn't be, a nasty piece of work who doesn't care much for the son. She isn't considerate and does things like this all the time (especially in regards to picking up and dropping off times)

Classic example (has happened several times) ... my partner texts her hours and hours in advance asking if he would be able to collect his son half an hour earlier than normal (for the weekend).

The text is ignored (or not seen by her ... fair enough!!)

He calls her mobile (call answered then cut off, or answered and background noises can be heard for about 1 minute ... sometimes partner hearing he is a D**k and other such charming words ... so it's not just the phone being in the bottom of her bag and getting answered without her knowledge)

He leaves it for several hours ... tries to contact her again ... contact ignored.

Partner attempts to go to house (sits outside in car, never goes to the door now, after having been attacked by her last year ... unprovoked attack, she lunged at him as soon as the door was opened), toots horn of car (as per normal) ... nothing

Partner has to sit for nearly half an hour (so it is nearly the 'normal' time for collection), sometimes with her just staring out of the window at him, flicking V's at him or occasionally she will send a text stating the child is eating or cleaning up their room ... any excuse not to send the son out.

Sometimes partner drives away and comes back at 'usual' pick up time, when she is being like that, but child is still be sent out late ... or he gets text message from her stating he is late ... WTF????

It's such a difficult question this, and I would love any advice anyone has. I'm sorry this is a long post, I'm at my wit's end. Big sympathy to anyone going through similar things, I wish I had wise words for you. This is my first time posting, so be gentle!

My DP's two sons live about 100 miles from us. Every weekend now from last April, and currently up to the end of October, she has (with never more than a week's notice) said that one or both of the boys have a party or a sporting commitment on the weekend they are due to be with their dad.

Firstly, I'd like to echo Lala1980's very clear message - we absolutely support the children going to parties and other social commitments and obviously understand the importance of these activities to young children (7 & 9). We have done our best to support these up to now and I don't think they've missed anything. However, currently, if any other activity comes up on 'his' weekend then she will accept without consulting, and then tell the children it is possible for him to take them to it.

A stable, meaningful relationship with both parents is incredibly important to a child's development. A meaningful relationship is considerably harder to develop when your (already very limited) time with your child is eaten into by taking them to other engagements. As well as 'structured' activity, you also need time just to be a parent - cooking, washing, playing, chatting etc. I don't think this is something that the Ex gives any importance to.

DP's ex says it is the children's right to choose what they want to do. So the situation is currently that DP calls his children to say hi on, say, Tuesday. They're due to come down on Friday. They say 'we have a football match on Sunday and mum says you can take us'. Up until now, if we've had something else arranged, they've been disappointed to not be able to go, but happy to come to see us all the same. Until yesterday, when the eldest was very insistent that all he wanted to do was go to the sports match rather than see his dad. She then took the phone off him, said to DP that he was upsetting his son, and then wouldn't answer the phone again.

I am furious and utterly depressed in equal measure. As I've said, we're up to 6 months of literally not knowing until 15 mins before if we're seeing the children. The stress this puts my partner under is enormous, as he loves his children and wants to see them! I also worry about the stress that it puts children under, having the role of their father questioned like this. She won't confirm any weekends in advance now, and has said the children will only see him when they don't have other commitments. I'm also scared that she's managing to turn the children against him, by putting him in the position of having to deprive them of activities.

We went to see a solicitor to find out what the law might think of a situation like this. Her opinion was that both parents have a duty to facilitate a relationship with the other parent, and that when an activity for the child arises, it is up to the parent with care that weekend to decide what to do. But the only way we could get that sorted is to get a court order, which it would be ideal to avoid.

Does anyone have any advice on how we can resolve the situation? Ideally, we would like to confirm contact dates a bit in advance. Then, if something comes up, she could inform DP that this was the commitment, and he could decide whether we could do it or not. Most of the time, we would, but sometimes due to either other commitments (e.g. seeing family, going on a trip), or just the need for a 'normal' weekend (where they play with their toys, go down the park, go swimming, bundle with their dad, he cooks them tea etc), we would say no. She would respect that, and support the children going anyway, rather than leading them to think that their dad is depriving them of the activity they will miss. Does that sound reasonable? It is putting the children first, as it's thinking about their long term development and need for a relationship with their dad. It's also about recognising the situation for what it is - the children have parents living in two different houses, often two different towns, and this means some adjustments need to be made to their lives. We all need to live within the situation we find ourselves, and raging against this only hurts the children.

Any advice or thoughts gratefully received - and I'm very willing to hear the 'other side' as it were. I'm desperately trying to understand this situation and support my partner, and I want to know what's best for the children.

littlelamby - you should probably have started your own thread, but as you are new you are forgiven!

Your DH's ex is (as your solicitor told you) totally out of order to make arrangements for your DSCs on the weekend you have care. I think that your DH needs to put this to her in writing, with a clear message that he will pursue this through the courts if she refuses to comply. She needs to hear the message that he is not going to relent on this, and your DSCs need to hear it too.

We went through similar issues and, unless your DH is completely clear that she is being unreasonable and he decides to defend the boundaries of contact that are established, she will carry on abusing the situation in her own interest.

littlelamby I thought your post was well written and fair so I hope people are gentle with you.
I don't have any experience or support, but just want to say your situation sounds like ours but with the distance being so much greater, it must be so much harder for you.
Just wishing you all the best, plenty of wine, and a happier outcome. x

"DP's ex says it is the children's right to choose what they want to do."

This is a fallacious argument that does not stand up in court. Children of this age do not have the right to mess around with contact to their heart's content. Your DH should make this clear to his exW.

Thank you for those responses. The solicitor is drafting a letter at the moment saying just about that, so we'll see what that looks like, and my DP has taken the stance that he will not back down on this (even though at the moment, it appears to be harming his relationship with the children).

We will move closer, but jobs and other issues take time to sort out, and it's taken DP this long to get back on his feet after the break up. He has health problems too, which doesn't help. Although while the Ex takes this position, I don't think it would help as much it would appear to.

Trying to moderate the wine, but it definitely helps at times!

Lala1980 - big apologies if I have hijacked your thread, as a newbie not quite sure what to do! But I thought our situations were similar enough that people might have advice for both of us. I hope your situation improves too x

The DSCs need to understand the law too. It is very bad for DCs with divorced parents to think that they get to decide when and where they see each parent - they need firm boundaries or else they will play one parent off against another. Divorced parents need a united front over this in order to avoid their DCs taking control of their own lives...

Bonsoir - I agree, I don't think it's a good position for children to be in. At that age, your parents decide what you're doing (obviously taking into account input from you!) and to let children think otherwise, I can't help feel is destabilizing on some level.

Welcome littlelamby

Sounds like the situation me and my partner are in with regards to his son and the mum (ex-wife), is very similar to yours, except we live about 35 miles away from her.

bonsoir As much as I agree with your advice that the 'DH should be completely clear that she is being unreasonable and he decides to defend the boundaries of contact that are established, she will carry on abusing the situation in her own interest' ... I must admit my partner has been through this several times with his ex, telling her she is unreasonable, plus solicitors have been involved, but all to no avail ...

all the mum does is stop contact for a week or two, says he is a bad dad (What? ... for wanting to be with his only child and doing everything in his power to see his son), says HE is being unreasonable, etc ...

All we ever try to do is accomodate the childs needs in regards to attending parties and other events (I think he has only missed one party, but that was partly the child's fault for not saying he had a party or handing over the invite, until the day after the party, so obviously we couldn't take him ... mum went mad though (once child was returned home after the weekend), asking my partner why he hadn't bothered to take their son to the party, and yet she hadn't let my partner know about it either, so not really the childs fault) .

My partner is trying to be there for his son, but just hits a wall of abuse or conflict at every turn ... and all for what? An upset child (who sometimes doesn't want to be returned to mummy's house), and lots of strain on our relationship

Sorry ... it sounds like I'm ranting (probably am), but I fully understand what littlelamby is going through