Oh my goodness

[theredhen]

it's official, DSD2 aged 14 wants to move in with us full time. She had a row with Mum, wanted to stay with us for a couple more nights, but she is now saying she doesn't want to go back except for every other weekend and wants to stay with us the majority of the time.

Meanwhile, the ex wife who has witheld contact between DP and his 2 youngest kids for months now, declaring abuse from DP towards them, trying to get police and social services involved and getting us a fair way down the court proceedings route has suddenly decided that we can start to have contact again and go back to exactly as it was. She has made herself look a complete idiot, she was even making the kids go to the next town as she didn't want DP in her town picking up and dropping off the eldest kids, now all of a sudden, we're allowed to her house again. No co-incidence that DSD2 has been refusing to see Mum and she is panicking and thinks by allowing DP contact with the others, we won't play the same game as her, and stop DSD2 from seeing her.

My head is all over the place. DSD2 is very different from the 3 other children and I get on with her much better, I can see similarities between myself and her but the reality is I don't know if I can deal with bringing up someone elses child full time. What if I get attached and then she clears off back to Mum? can I really "share" my time between DS and DSD as well as working full time and living in the back of beyond? I'm going to find it hard enough during the week and then the weekend will be filled with the 2/3 other children and their arrogant, rude behaviour. The thought of the whole situation is filling me with dread and fear. I think the weekends with the other kids is more frightening though than DSD being there all the time. At least I have some opportunity to treat DSD as I do DS and she is much better mannered and behaved than the other 3 anyway.

It makes me really upset to think of losing my evenings with DS, those special times of watching a film or teaching him a new skill when DP goes out, I feel I will lose this time at worst, or now have to share with DSD and I'm not sure, I want to, which in turn makes me feel terribly guilty.

To add to the mix, DP ex is going mental and wanting to wait for DSD outside school, constant texting (which DSD has apparently, all but one time ignored), DSD has said the more Mum tries to push her, the less time she wants to spend with her.

DSD Mum and maternal grandmother have expressed concern about DSD2 state of mind, they have said they think she might have an eating disorder and might be experiencing hallucinations based on diary comments they have found, but no hard proof. I have seen no evidence of this, although, obviously I haven't been looking for it, but will do now. My gut feeling is that they are wrong and trying to find justification for DSD not wanting to live with Mum anymore rather than Mum look at her own behaviour.

Ironically since the counselling session last week and since this has all kicked off, DP has been saying that I am always right in my opinions and views and that he sometimes just takes some time to see it. I've been pretty blunt with him about his other kids and he has told me he doesn't really want DSD here all the time as he enjoys our time together and the fact that he gets a rest (he will spend an average of an hour per evening driving DSD about now). He's told me he knows his eldest is rude and disrespectful and that his youngest is an attention seeker. He's saying he wants DSD to have the same chores as DS etc but I know he really has no idea how to enforce consequences etc., so unless he's going to start listening to me, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Also, this is DP busy time of year and he will be working 15 hour days, it means that we only had his children for every other weekend contact and one night in the week, we didn't do the 50/50 as it is supposed to be in the rest of the school holidays, this meant that I really looked forward to the summer and saved up my holiday time from work to spend days with DS and now I have to accept that I have to share that with DSD and I'm not sure I want to. Then I feel sick with guilt. Then I think how nice it will be to have a "ready made" family of 1 boy, 1 girl. Then I remember how much influence the ex has in our home and don't believe that will change.

I feel like a puppet in a show and everyone else is allowed to pull my strings. DP and his ex have created the whole situation and yet it is me who has to deal with it. By allowing one child to cut contact with his father, she has taught DSD2 that she can cut contact with her Mother too. "We reap what we sow" as they say.

And what I didn't express very well in the OP, is that I feel DP kids are all pretty messed up, I'm not so naive to think that DSD can come and live with us and we can live happily ever after. I think there is something significantly wrong if a 14 yr old can make a life changing choice like she has on little more than a whim.

I feel like I'm surrounded by these damaged kids and that I have a duty to try and give them some "normality". I feel responsible. To the outside world they have everything going for them, two well educated parents who no doubt love them very much, financially secure, lots of support with education and extra-curricular clubs etc, but when it comes to it these are pretty messed up kids because of their Mothers controlling behaviour and a disney Dad.

My DS has got things going on with his own Dad and the counsellor told me last week that the reason DS and DP are not "bonding" is because DS cannot trust anyone or anything to be a constant in his life apart from me. So how on earth is all this going to affect him?

Redhen, in your first post you say that your DP isn?t keen on having DSD2 with you all the time. You?re not over-struck on the idea either. So surely as you and DP are the two adults in the household, you can decline the request?

Children in a ?together? family don?t have the luxury of swapping homes each time they have a row with their parents ???

I think this could make your life even more difficult and you don?t deserve that.

Yes, I know. After her "just staying another night" I decided to have a talk with DSD last night. I told DP it was a fact finding mission and I just wanted to hear her part of the story, which she gave me. DP then asks her "what do you want to do?". Whilst I do accept she has a right to ask for what she wants, I do feel it's so wrong for parents to give so much control to children. Ultimately I think kids just want us to parent them, not ensure the world revolves around them.

Could you let her stay for a few days to give things time with her mum to cool down, but treat a request to come and live with you as something you need to give longer term consideration to?

Not least it should be something that she has considered and thinks is for the best in the long-run not just a bolt hole after a row. And you and DP need to work out how it would work out in practice - how much driving around would be needed, by who, what house rules and chores she would need to do, etc.

Also her mum is only going to get worse in her efforts to control the kids if she feels under threat that after every row they could jump ship and head off to their dad's. If mine were to do that to me, I'd feel pretty undermined if he offered to let them stay. I'd want him to back me up that they should sort out whatever caused the row instead.

theredhen - oh my god, just reading that made me want to boil my head!!

I think you need to spend a little time thinking about it, just let it 'sit' and see how you feel, you don't need to decide immediately.

If you do decide to go ahead with it, then you and DP need to do a lot of talking about how things will work!

I agree with you - kids need parenting, not just getting what they think they want.

Good luck sorting your head out!

Purple, the trouble is that DP ex has allowed DSS to walk away from his Dad completely after a silly row. DSS has had no contact at all with DP for months now. It is no different to this situation and DSD2 has learnt from Mum that running off to the other parent is an option because she has seen her brother do it and be supported fully by her Mum. Most of us could talk to our ex's and sort the situation out for the benefit of the child, but DP and his ex can't and I know I couldn't talk to her either. She is full of hatred for DP and just can't see the wood for the trees.

DP text me this morning to say he's spoken to the school and DSD has told them she is now living with us - she told them this before we had the conversation last night. He has now arranged for himself to be the first point of contact with the school and is going to phone about school transport today also. It's all going very fast.

The more I think about it, it is the unpredictability of the others coming or not coming and their behaviour which is actually the big issue for me and always has been. Also, I am worried that we won't even get the "third of the time" contact between DSD2 and her Mother that we have been getting if we "swap" things round. In theory if that were to happen, I would at least get some time with DS alone, but ultimately who is going to force that to happen? No-one.

I have always said I won't make DP choose between his kids and me and I have been on the cusp of leaving him for so long now. It's been a long time since I envisioned a long term future with DP.

But before, I was just leaving him and he's an adult. Now when I think of leaving, I'm going to be letting down DSD2 as well.

Poor you!!!

I honestly think around 14 is a time when girls often vote with their feet to live the previously non-resident parent so she's not being that unwired.

In all honesty she probably deep knows that your house is a much healthier place to live in addition to wanting to be away from her Mum.

I think you and dh need to decide some grounds rules to discuss with dsd2 together before she "decides" if she really wants to move and then you will consider the request (Completely ignore the fact of what she has said to school etc or if she knows you know then say as far as both of you are concerned it is not final).

As part of the discussion I would include that she needs to see her mum once per week/fortnight for at least x hours regardless - or she has to agree to meet up with her for coffee somewhere or something.

That dh will not run around after her every evening she will have to accept 3 or 4 evenings per week she is stuck in rural doom.

That 2 nights per week she will retire to her bedroom at 8pm (or whatever) as that is your couples evening.

To also be included is the chores expected of her.

Does that make it seem more bearable?

If she doesn't stick to the rules the consequences will be...
removal of non-school taxi services for.. a week?
reduction/removal of pocket money?
removal of internet time?

That type of thing.

I really don't think it should be for DSD2 to decide where she lives - she's too young to understand the implications. Redhen and her DP should be the decision-makers. When you're 14, there are some decisions that you don't get to make. The adults do it for you. And this is one of those decisions.

It doesn't bode well does it?

14 yr old girl decides to move house, without actually telling any of the adults, when she finally lets the adults know, it's only because DP says "what would you like to do?" which suggests to her that the decision is all down to her.

Her grandmother simply says "well it's up to her, isn't it?".

DP is already saying he won't be able to do this and that anymore because of DSD activities.

When I asked DP NOT to run around after the kids every single night (even when they weren't living with us) ages ago, we had a big row because he refused to tell the children that X night a week is his night with me.

I suggested to DP last night that we should broach the subject of DSD seeing her Mum and suggested that we should suggest that she sees Mum Fri after school to Mon school drop off this weekend. DP thought it was "too much" and suggested an hour at Grandmothers as a start. I said I thought it was better to start with "too much" and then we can negotiate down rather than us trying to force her to go for extra time.

When I think of all the times, he's sent rants to his ex when he has missed out on his contact and yet, here he is condoning no contact with the other parent.

TBH having read your last post, I'd just leave

There is no way your dp should ever have asked her what she wanted and agreed to it.

There should have been a discussion with you and dp then saying you would discuss it with her mum - even that was only at face value IYSWIM.

How much unpredictability can one woman and one teenager about to start his GCSE's live with?

There are very few situations where I would advocate ultimatums; but if you really think that you couldn't live with DSD2, and that the choice has already been made, i'd make it clear to DP that you will leave if she stays permanently. I think you're completely at the end of your tether, which is totally understandable.

Have any of them at any point asked YOU or your ds how you feel about this?
It sounds like you are being steam rollered into it.
If my DP were in your situation he would be enjoying the payback to his ex and not thinking about what is best for DSD. Do you think this is the case for your DP?
I think things are already fragile with you and DP and having his dd move in will make a bad situation worse

Yes, DP has asked me how I feel about it. I've told him I've never wanted to have another person's child live with me full time, I would never have chosen to live with someone who had kids fulltime, but I won't tell him what to do, it wouldn't be fair of me and ultimately he could say no to her and I leave him anyway.

And yes, he has already said he is tempted to stop all contact for DSD and her Mother to spite his ex, he has said he is glad his ex is panicking and getting a taste of her own medicine. I can definetely see where he is coming from but he hasn't said he will go through with any of it, he has said he will be fair.

Petal, it's not so much whether I can live with DSD, more that I can't live with the unpredictability and volatility of the whole situation.

My dss 17 did not speak to dh for a year, fully supported by his mum. Now dh is terrified that if he ever tries to properly parent younger ss, that is the pattern. I agree that 14 is still a child too young to decide, but a court would give a child that age the choice. And that is where your dp's dilema is; is he going to say to his child "No you can't live with me?' From what i have read of your posts, i might be wrong but i don't think so.The fact that your dp would not tell his kids that x night a week is yours is very telling and would infuriate me.

I never wanted to have another person's child live with me full time (let alone one who doesn't acknowledge my existance) but now i have, because dh's ex moved away and ds is at school here. Am i happy with the situation? No, but i know it won't be forever and i look at the bigger picture and how my life and my dc's lives has generally changed for the better. If you are not happy and not coping (with or without sd coming), your ds will suffer and he really does have to be your first priority as he did not bring this situation upon himself.

I too am at the whim of where my dsc wish to live. And yes it i unpredictable but dh always says to me g-d forbid if his ex passed away we would have to have them all anyway. He also says that he lives with my 2 dcs..

Yes, exactly that. I can't say that he has to make a choice about his DSD living with us, after all my DS is living with us too. However, it doesn't mean I have to live with a situation I don't want does it?

He's not going to say "no you can't live with me" and I don't blame him for that really.

However, I am prepared to make compromises and to try and keep things as steady and predictable for DP as possible. I could live my life at the whims of my ex is who very unpredictable but I put strategies in place to ensure that the effect of his behaviour is minimal for DP. Unfortunately I'm not extended the same courtesy and the effect is multiplied by four.

DSS17 did not speak to DH for a year, fully supported by his Mum. Now DH is terrified that if he ever tries to parent younger SS properly, that this will be the pattern.

I can totally identify with that. DH hasn?t seen his daughter for over five years (she now lives abroad), because of a silly argument. The ex was delighted about this, she saw it as a victory. As a result of this, DH?s younger child, isn?t parented in the slightest, just in case any minor arguments flare up, resulting in him losing his son too.

No you don't have to live with it redhen. Since it does not sound as you will have a casting vote, you will have to see how it pans out, continue with your counceling and then make a decision, and whatever it is, you will always know that it was made over a period of time and not in haste or panic. I have 3 scs and the times we have been all together for extended periods have honestly brought out the worst in me with feelings of resentment and almost depression. I do admire people that make it work and sometimes think i'm just not made of the right stuff for this.

Petal i find that ss is well aware of dp's terror of upsetting him, and uses it to his full advantage.

RedHen ditch the dp and keep dsd, far simpler all around

Your dp is being completely unreasonable, any decent parent and partner would have had the sort of conversations I mentioned above, discussed it all thoroughly etc

OH, redhen!!! I can't believe this is happening. You are already pushed to the limits, and also - I can't believe your DP would let things get this far without talking about it properly. I just don't think he has any idea what is being asked of you already or what this change would mean for you.

Although I am very pleased that he is seeing reason (in theory, if not yet able to act on it!) about the behaviours of the other kids. That is a beginning - but you guys- he has a long way to go.

I agree that the way it has developed does not bode well - and you aren't being given a chance to really think it through. IF DSD were to move in, it should only be after rules and plans and strategies are decided upon and only once you feel DP is really and truly and FINALLY going to support you.

Also, absolutely agree that this is a decision for the adults. Children should not be making these kind of calls.

This relationship and family is too child focused. This is why all this is happening. DSD "decides" something, we all jump, family meetings every night, solicitors etc etc. She has literally had a little tiff with Mum and yet she is refusing point blank to see her Mum but won't give any other explanation as to why, only silly reasons that don't warrant moving home at all. Maybe there is more going on that I don't realise? Or maybe the kids in this family have just learnt that behaviour is normal?

I think I could learn to live with DSD2 although I would find it hard, what I can't live with is the lack of stability, the volatility and the unpredictability. Maybe I'm silly for wanting so much control over my own life, maybe someone else can just take "things as they come"?

But this is me, someone who needs to know who's sleeping in my home that evening, who's staying for lunch and who's having their friends over rather than just finding out at the time.

Nothing will ever stay the same for long in this family.

All the adults in RL (friends and family) are saying that "DSD is old enough to decide", so by the same token, she is old enough to decide anything and everything else including when she has a row with me and runs back to Mum, I expect. DP is not pushing the issue of DSD seeing her Mum very much and is feeling guilty for trying to insist on half an hour. Doesn't bode well for discipline and consequences in the future does it?

DP is obviously struggling and stressed and is telling me how wonderful I am, lovely person, great Mum etc. It feels like desperation on his part to keep me because he knows that he's piling far too much pressure on me.

When I was single I used to say that I wouldn't be with anyone who made me worse off than being a single Mum. In the forefront of my mind was money in that statement, but I think maybe that should apply to emotional and practical issues too.

DP is obviously struggling and stressed and is telling me how wonderful I am, lovely person, great Mum etc. It feels like desperation on his part to keep me because he knows that he?s piling far too much pressure on me

Well that?s something, if he realises he?s pushing things too far. In which case you should take advantage of this, and insist that the adults make the decisions, not a 14 yr old.

Oh Redhen.
What will happen if the other dc argue with their Mum and announce they are moving in too.
You will be overrun with all of them. All the time.
Your life will not be your own any more - and your poor ds
I really think its time you put your foot down.