Christmas gifts for non-contact DSD?

[NotaDisneyMum]

DSD (14) has had no contact with DP for months - after giving him an ultimatum; her or me.
There were some Christmas presents for DSD under our tree - one from DPs sister/Bil, one from his parents and one from us.

Originally,DP was going to drop them off for DSD at her mums house, but has now decided to let her know they are here if she'd like to come and pick them up.

Thoughts?

Dolly - yes, like you, my presence in SDS Dads life coincided with his decision to change his parenting approach.

Yes, the fact that I parent my DD very differently to the way he had been raising his DC's had something to do with his decision to change. He saw the way I did things, we talked about it, and together, we learnt how to parent more effectively.

The dynamic of DP's marriage had been that "he did what he was told" by his exW, so DSD believes that in a marriage, the wife tells the husband what to do and DP's exW beleives that I am pulling his strings; and has said as much to the DSC's.

They are all underestimating him - DP is more than capable of making up his own mind and making his own decisions; but neither DSD or her mum have ever seen that side of him so it inevitable that they will blame me.

My presence in DSD life - that should say!

Yes! That part annoys me. In the past, my dh has, in his own words, been soft as far as his kids are concerned. He, like many dads, fears their rejection to the extent that he has overlooked poor behaviour. It's really hard. I mean, if her parents were together I know he would not tolerate this petulant, foot stamping manipulative behaviour. He's a grown adult. He's an intelligent man in a responsible job. He's able to make up his own ,ind and he needs o help from me, if I'm honest, to recognise shitty behaviour.

But his youngest child has been "allowed" to behave badly so that she would still see dad. Now she's not getting her own way, she's voted with her feet.

After years of her resentment, I do not miss her one bit though obviously, I feel for my husband.

I think us stepmums are the easy target. It's so much easier to blame us than either of the parents. I know I bore the brunt of a lot of dsd's anger at her mum, and I know, because she's talked about it, that she was jealous of the way dd was being brough up . Bless her heart, it was really not easy for her.

wax - why aren't all DSC like this though? What makes some of them take it out on their DSP, and others accept and welcome their parents new partner into their lives ?

Of course, the reaction of the other parent is one aspect - but is it inevitable? Genetically programmed? Or is it a choice (all be it an unconscious one) on the part of the DSC, to blame and reject, based on education and values they have been taught, and in which case, can they be "re-educated"

notadisneymum, interesting point. I have 3 steps. All grown now at 23, 21 and 18. The eldest is lovely. I met her at 16. She is a generous girl....open minded and was very much the "big sis" to the other two. The middle one is ok with me and lovely with my young son. The youngest is just not nice. As I've said, she is/was the youngest when her parents split and allowances have been made. She's the "baby" of the family, if you like. I think she found it hard to see her dad with another person (to love) in his life. Now after 6 years, dh is a loving step parent to my young son, who adores dh. Dh returns that love. I don't think the youngest step daughter likes this, having been the much doted on child for so long.

She has in the past said she's "ok about X" (my son) but would prefer I were not with her dad. What can you do? I'm here. We took 4 years of long distance going out before either of us felt ready to commit again having been treated dreadfully by previous partners.

I don't think it's "biological" this rejection of site parents and research shows that stepdaughters are very much more likely to resent another female in dad's life than stepsons with stepdads. In y case, that's true.

Sorry for typos..... Tis iPad text!!

NADM you say "Yes, the fact that I parent my DD very differently to the way he had been raising his DC's had something to do with his decision to change. He saw the way I did things, we talked about it, and together, we learnt how to parent more effectively.

The dynamic of DP's marriage had been that "he did what he was told" by his exW, so DSD believes that in a marriage, the wife tells the husband what to do and DP's exW beleives that I am pulling his strings; and has said as much to the DSC's.

They are all underestimating him - DP is more than capable of making up his own mind and making his own decisions; but neither DSD or her mum have ever seen that side of him so it inevitable that they will blame me.
"

I cant relate to that sooo much. DSD explains it that she thinks it's my fault her parents argue because before Dad was with me they got along so well. What she actually means (whether she realises it or not) is that before he was with me he went along with everything her mother thought about parenting because he had no idea how to do things differently. His ex pulled all the strings and she and DSd ruled the roost. Far from "all getting along" he just didn't ever stand up to her. He now has his own opinions and stands by them. I just happen to share them with him.

And thanks for the advice about not leaving things too long. I guess in most areas of life things do blow over so it's clear why people take this route but you are right... I just need to work out what to do about it.

I think what's most relevant here is not the actual rights and wrongs but the perceived rights and wrongs.

DSD has sent your DP a text saying "why are you blackmailing me?". She thinks that her dad is blackmailing her and this needs addressing.

I would drop all the presents over for her and forget about them. I think you are in a difficult situation because most of the presents are not from you. They are from other family members and therefore you aren't the giver - when you accepted them, I think it was probably implied that you would ensure she got them, even if she made this difficult. If you really want, withhold the present from you and DP, but I would hand it over with good grace. She thinks you are blackmailing - drop the presents over with a note saying that you aren't blackmailing but would like to meet up (perhaps in a netural place) so that she can air her grievances. You need to sort the root of the problem out, not conduct battles over things like presents - they are just a symptom of the problem, not the actual problem itself. If she won't meet up and have a go at sorting it out, then at least you made the first move and left the door open for her.

You ask: At what age is it no longer acceptable for a 'child' to expect gifts from people they do not like, are rude to, or refuse to engage with?

I'll answer it for you (in practical terms): the point is not whether it is acceptable or not, the point is that she is a schoolgirl with no income and wants things/money so she'll accept things/money from people she refuses to engage with until she is old enough to earn her own money. Once she earns her own money, she won't need to accept things from people she refuses to engage with (rather like you not wanting to have a present from your X as you detailed above). This is of course from her perspective, I am not saying this is "right". And I will add that if she feels wronged by her dad (which she clearly does), then she will probably feel that the things/money are compensation for this and that she is entitled to them. She will not conform to "absolute" good standards of behaviour when a) she doesn't have her own finances and b) she feels wronged by her dad.

the point is not whether it is acceptable or not, the point is that she is a schoolgirl with no income and wants things/money so she'll accept things/money from people she refuses to engage with until she is old enough to earn her own money. Once she earns her own money, she won't need to accept things from people she refuses to engage with

Actually, the point is precisely that it is unacceptable. As a child, her DH is obligated to make sure (along with her other parent) that she has her basic needs met. He has done so, apparently. He also has apparently made sincere and multiple attempts to meet her emotional needs.

As you point out, she quite naturally wants other things. But the idea that she needs to take things from people she doesn't want to engage with? Not at all. In fact, if that is her attitude, I'd think a much more serious intervention is called for! Imagine if such an idea (I can't afford it, so I will play on the emotions and affections of others to get it) were to continue into adulthood...

Allowing her to abuse people's (even relatives) generosity and to behave in ill-mannered or hurtful ways, and still get her "wants" (as opposed to her needs) met, would be poor parenting and counter-productive, in that it puts the business of acquiring things over the parent-child connection.

Gifts can certainly be conditional. Affection and respect between the giver and recipient seem like reasonable conditions.

Anyway, the gifts are not being withheld. They are hers to pick up when she likes. The act of delivering the gifts is what is in question.

I've just realised that one of the first lessons young DCs are taught is that gifts are conditional

...he's making a list, he's checking it twice, gonna find out who's naughty or nice....

This is soooo tricky, isn't it?

I think gift giving ought to be conditional in some respects. I think to snub a gift, and this IS what she's doing, making her point....stamping her foot as it were, then the gift ought to be either tucked away for as long as it takes for her to realise that behaving badly and being showered with gifts doesn't usually happen or donated to a charity shop or better cause. A parent's unconditional love is not to be tested in this way. It's unkind and if in the future, she behaves like this in relationships/at work....then people will just walk away from her.

It's a good time to learn, IMO and some lessons ARE tough!

Hear hear Brdgrl !

I would also add that a parent who has not seen the child for months (generally) isn't in a position to hand out discipline/lessons in behaviour. It is idealistic to think that the DSD will respond to being taught about acceptable behaviour by a parent whose behaviour she doesn't consider acceptable and who she hasn't seen for months.

My DB was a teen when my parents split and he is still hurt over things that my father and stepmother said/did during his visits. He is 30 now. It won't ever be repaired and now he sees them once a year, under sufferance.

If I was the parent in this position, there would be no way I would be trying to hand out lessons in life to this girl at this stage. I would hand over the gifts to her, delivering them without upsetting her (ie when she isn't there/to her mother) with a note telling her that I loved her and wanted to hear her grievances.

etiquette - what are the benefits of that approach to DSD? Other than the fact that she gets what she wants, of course? Are you thinking that she will behave "more favourably" towards DP if he gives her what she wants, and that way, she "keeps" a Dad in her life - all be it, one who doesn't parent her?

Are you endorsing the "DisneyDad" approach to parenting - ignore all inappropriate behaviour and continue to fulfil her wants in the hope that she will come round and start to see him again, and discuss the issue?

In that case, I think that DP should avoid discussing the issue with her altogether; she is likely to get upset with him when they talk about it, which will undo any benefits it will bring.

DSD has screamed abuse at DP in the past when he has told her that he misses her - he is "making her feel guilty" about not seeing him, apparently and that's not fair on her.

Maybe DP is better off accepting whatever scraps of contact that DSD is prepared to throw at him with no expectations on his part or responsibilities towards her at all.

I'm not thinking of her behaving more favourably to your DP because that would just be manipulating her ie he gives gifts, she is nice to him, rather like bribery. I am not endorsing the DisneyDad approach.

I am actually thinking of her genuinely airing whatever she thinks that your DP has done wrong so that they can discuss it and get over it. (with the gift situation aside as that isn't the root of the problem).

She thinks that the reason he won't drop the gifts round is that he is blackmailing her. By giving them to her, she hopefully would see that he is not blackmailing her, he genuinely wants to be in her life.

Since all your DP has is actually scraps of contact, I don't see how he can use them to teach her life/behaviour lessons. She interprets it as blackmail, as illustrated by the present situation. I honestly don't see how he can parent her in the current situation - with her not wanting any contact and the actual level of contact being once every few months.

etiquette - DSD will not air her grievances, beyond telling DP that he has to choose between me and her and until I'm gone, she won't have anything to do with him.

When other family members (such as DP's family) have raised the issue of her not seeing DP, she has lied to them - saying that they have both been busy, or that it was only a few days ago that they last spoke.

She won't "air her grievances", denies that the absence of a dad in her life is a problem (after all, her mum managed just fine) and DP is unable to arrange support to help her as she is considered of an age where she must self-refer to counselling services and so forth.

What is his role in her life? You are suggesting that he fulfils her demands in this situation despite her behaviour, and actively chooses not not parent her because he doesn't have a relationship with her. Where does that leave him?

Notadisneymum.....I'm in complete agreement with you.

Lessons, even tough ones have to be learned here. If sd manipulates this situation now, how much worse will it get?

etiquette, I think you have raised a valid point that might apply in 'normal' families but with step fathers there are other dynamics at play.

NADM, Do you believe that your DSD has been subjected to parental alienation? Is this likely to be cause of the hostility?

smum yes, she has, her mum is open about it - and we've recently discovered resources that can help avoid the same situation with DSS - but I don't think that's the whole story with DSD, unfortunately.

The lack of boundaries from either parent in the early years of her life has created a teen that is even more entitled and selfish than 'the norm' - and that is already having an impact on her life. She is underachieving, there is regular conflict (including violence) between the few friends that she has, she attention seeks, and she is beginning to display signs of 'risky sexual behaviour' (a phrase I hate, but it's one that is used, apparently!).

It would be easy to blame it all on the divorce, alienation, lack of male role model in her life - but whatever it is, I struggle with the suggestion that DP should accept it because she has chosen to opt out of his parenting

They are really losing out on that parenting aren't hey NADM. What a waste of a good father

We were talking baout breakfast this morning and how when DSD was here for half the week we would encourage a healthy balanced breakfast, which would obviously set her up for a good ay at school etc. When she came at the weekend DH just didnt even bother to point out that she hadn't had breakfast and then had a piece of cake at 11am. He feels that as he now only sees her once a week there is little point in parenting her in this way.

Her Mum doesnt agree with breakfast and doesnt question what DSD has. So now she has missed out on the opportunity to regularly have this guidence.

It's the same with the presents. As your DH doesnt have much contact it seems pointless for him to enforce these morals on his DD.. but if he doesn't it renders his parenting completely impotant.