Christmas gifts for non-contact DSD?

[NotaDisneyMum]

DSD (14) has had no contact with DP for months - after giving him an ultimatum; her or me.
There were some Christmas presents for DSD under our tree - one from DPs sister/Bil, one from his parents and one from us.

Originally,DP was going to drop them off for DSD at her mums house, but has now decided to let her know they are here if she'd like to come and pick them up.

Thoughts?

We are in same boat re presents we have bought for oldest sd - dsd will take them with her tomorrow - don't want to lower ourselves to game playing

MJ do you think inviting her to collect them is game playing?

There is no way we'll use DSS as a messenger - DP's original plan was to drop them off when he picked up DSS on 27th, but we thought is was important that DSS (and DD) saw that DSD still has a place in this family if she wishes it.
It just seems wrong somehow that DSD accepts gifts from someone she refuses to interact with

Why don't you give her the option. Let her know there are gifts if she'd like to come, otherwise you will drop them off. Then she knows that the door is open for her to come to see you and also that you are still caring enough to buy some gifts that you want to get to her. I'm not sure dangling them as a carrot is the way to go, she may feel like you are trying to blackmail her into coming even if that isn't your intention. And I'm not sure just dropping them off without any attempt to see her is either. Admittedly though I don't know the background here but FWIW that's probably what I would do.

No sorry I didn't mean you are game playing - i was meaning that's how I see dsds behaviour - dh has asked her if she wants to meet him to collect or if she wants other dsd to take them home.

She didn't even bother to answer the text he sent.

But rather than drop down to that level dsd will take them - so she doesn't think dh doesn't care.

There is no right answer in situations like this - all anyone can do is what they think is the right thing. It's a minefield.

I dont want sd1 in our home again though - she is in her 20s now and although I understand her behavior is as a result of the emotional abuse she has suffered I have no relationship with her and I don't want her around dd and ds2. It would be too confusing for them.

If she ever resumes a relationship with dh then I will have a rethink.

So difficult - and with a teenager determined to take the hump, whatever you do will be wrong. So in many ways that frees you up - do what you think is right without worrying about her reaction. Or box clever and give her the choice - then she has to decide how churlish she wishes to look.

DSS (9) chose not to come to DH's Mum's Christmas get together this year. DH wouldn't have given him the choice but it is beyond our control and I feel very bad about the huge sack of presents he got and will make damn sure he writes thoughtful thank you letters. It's just basic good manners, IMO, to spend some time with people who love and care about you enough to spend more than they can afford on presents, not just decide it is easier to stay at home knowing you'll get your presents anyway.

balia how right you are! If DP gives DSD space, then he doesn't care, but if he tries to maintain contact, he doesn't respect her.

Giving DSD the choice will undoubtedly lead to a demand to drop them off to her mum at a time DSD isn't home - shed rather have hot needles poked in her eyes than actually face him

To add dsd didn't want to take presents to they are still here where undoubtedly they will remain until I give up and use them.

Lol mj - hope you bought her something useful!

There is an added complication for DP - his parents and sister used to send presents to DSC's mums address - until DP explained that we celebrate birthdays/Christmas here to - even if it's not actually on the day.
DPs parents left their gifts to DSD here, asking DP to pass them on - if DSD doesn't get them, they'll undoubtedly go back to sending them to their mums home - which undermines all the effort we're making with DSS to help him feel like this is his home too

We have a similar issue - I wont de-rail/ hijack your thread but bascially DSD (12) and her mother have drastically reduced DH's contact with her and as a result she missed all the Christmas socialising with both his and my family. She has about 8 presents at our house now and has asked her Dad to A, tell her if they are gifts or money, then B, open them and she will decide if to come and get them, then C, bring them round to her Mum's.

He has said no to all of this and her mother has been on the phone telling him he's manipulating their DD in to visiting us and is playing nasty spitful games... apparently DSD was in tears that she wasn't getting her presents.

It does seem a bit game playing to withhold them but I support him in his decision that if she can't be bothered to make the effort to see us, or our families then she doesn't deserve the gifts.

I do feel bad though as the people who gave them to her I'm sure want her to have them. She'll come next weekend and can have them then.

She is notoriously spoilt though so there is a bit of a back story with us.

BOM I remember your post about DSD demanding your DH open her gifts so that she could cherrypick - i wondered how you had dealt with it.

DP is on the phone to his parents at the moment - i suggested he ask them if they considered it unreasonable to expect DSD to collect her gifts - perhaps you could ask the gift-givers in your situation if they would mind you opening the gift as DSD has requested because she wants to decide if it's worth visiting her dad for

Ha, not a bad idea - I fear she may not get many next year if we did that...

Yes, asking the family is a good idea for yours I think. pass the buck See what they say

BOM to be honest, I'm sick and tired of the unspoken elephant in the room each time DPs parents visit - it's about time they faced up to reality, even if they have to accept that DP is a disappointment (in their eyes).

Earlier in the year, when DSD had refused to speak to DP or myself for months and had upset my DD via text, the inlaws visited and FIL announced that he'd ''arranged it all with DSD,and she had agreed that she was happy to come out to dinner with us all'
Um, no, I don't think so - there is a lot to resolve before I will subject DD or myself to DSD presence. Unfortunately, I'm now the wicked stepmonstermother in the IL's eyes and they think that DP should win his DCs affection by being DisneyDad!

God that sounds horrendous. At least DH's family are on our side (not as oppossed to DSD's but just in general over our view on he situation with her mother)

What did they say when he asked about the presents on the phone?

His mum is fine about asking DSD to collect them - and even went as far as to say that if DSD decides not to pick them up, then they may not send any more!

Unfortunately, FIL (who is textbook NPD) has elevated DSD to golden grandchild status, he treats her as a victim of BM, and considers us to be totally unreasonable by not accommodating her inevitable behaviour!

I wouldn't send dsds presents to her mums no matter what the reason - sd1 has never had a relationship with me - dh likes to get her a present as he is ever hopeful that one day she will escape her mothers clutches come around, so they are just token gifts.

As it is our hands are tied - she won't it appears anyway, meet him, he isnt allowed to the house and dsd didn't want to take them (she also "forgot" the christmas card sd1 asked her to bring - dsd told us.

I'm glad dsd feels able to say no to us.

If my dsd suddenly decided not to come up (and in the past it has been a month) the presents would just wait, because we are also her family.

NADM it's a nightmare.

BoM I'm sure she will come around and you are right - 4 attempts at contact a year is apparently a sign dh doesn't care about sd, but when does more become harrassing.

DH has not had any contact with SS2 (17) since may when we had major row as he demanded £4k for car insurance before he had even got a provisional license / taken any lessons. We finished saying that we would be putting b'day and christmas money in a sepratae account and when he was ready to discuss matters fairly and reasonably he could have the money.

Surprise - just before Christmas he starts texting - and asking for a cheque.
Needless to say he has not received one - I think sometimes you have to stand firm and say 'no more'.

Well, well, well

DP received an out of the blue text from DSD today, just five words:
Why are you blackmailing me?

DP only posted the letter inviting her to pick up her gifts today, so he assumed that the text was meant for someone else, and that she'd got herself into a spot of bother with friends and had sent DP a text meant for someone else by accident.
He tried calling her - she wouldn't answer; so he called her mum to check DSD was OK and let her mum know that she might have got into something out of her depth. Her mum said that she thought it was meant for DP and it was about Christmas presents.

It didn't take us long to work out that FIL (did I mention he's textbook NPD?) had interfered thought he could help and been in contact with DSD after DP spoke to MIL about the gift they left for DSD when they visited before Christmas.
FIL was all set to take the credit when DP told him that DSD had been in touch - it rather took the wind out of his sails when DP read him the text!
He was soon back on script though 'oh, poor little DSD, she's being torn apart' DP actually challenged FIL, but it won't make any difference I wonder whether FIL would actually excuse DSD bodily injury or even murder, 'because she's so mixed up' !

Eurgh, how horrible. I can't get my head around how these adults walk amongst us!

Who on God's earth wouldn't understand that it's not blackmail but teaching your child right from wrong

And didn't the in laws say they didn't mind when you asked them before..?

You should take the presents. It does sound like blackmail, or rather bribery. She doesn't want to see her dad. Her dad wants to give her presents. So her dad needs to get them to her.

But don't we all bribe our kids all the time?

-If you pick up after yourself all week I'll take you to the park on Saturday.
-If you help me lay the table we can watch your new DVD after lunch.
-If you lie to me again then you won't go to Alison's birthday party.
-If you can't have the decency to spend time with your family over Christmas then don't expect any presents.

Not sure what the problem is here. Other than the emotion attached to Christmas time and gifts, which is why I have a pang of bad feeling over keeping my DSD's presents "hostage" (for want of a better word!) but after all if we don't teach them manners and decency who will?

What's the alternative "It's okay, don't put yourself out, you be as cold and detached as you like and I'll bring you gifts"

ruddy they are not just gifts from us, but also DPs family, who left them here knowing that DSD doesn't visit; they have encouraged DSD to pop in to see her dad and collect her gifts; she blames DP for that.

I do not understand your suggestion that DP should drop them off because DSD doesn't want to see us - are you suggesting that she is entitled to the gifts and it is DPs job to ensure she gets them in the manner of her choosing? That's certainly not an example I want to set any of the DCs
Even MIL had said that if DSD won't spend a few minutes with her dad, then the gifts obviously aren't important enough to her.

BOM - The IL are struggling with the whole situation; logically, they agree with DP that DSD should not be rewarded for her behaviour, but FIL in particular is unable to accept that DSD is anything other than an innocent victim.
If that were the case, DSD would refuse to see her dad and forget about the gifts - it is the materialism/greed that is the most unpleasant aspect of DSD behaviour to me

Yes, I would feel the same NADM. Your FIL sounds a nightmare!

Did her dad buy her presents because he wanted her to have them or to bribe her with or to try to make her feel bad?

The issue of taking in presents so the dss feels he has two homes is pointless. You say to him his sister won't come here for presents so relatives send them to the house where she actually is.

You don't like her game playing. She doesn't like your game playing. Stale mate.

Is it really game playing ?

(Responsible) parents bring their kids up to take responsibility for their own actions. This starts from a very young age and kids are either diverted from bad behaviour by the threat of what will happen if they continue, or, they're actually punished when they carry on ... e.g. going to bed early, pocket money stopped, being grounded etc.

With something like this where the child is being both rude, disrespectful and hurtful by refusing to see her own father and by giving him ultimatums about who he chooses to have a relationship with, what message does it send to the other children in the family if there's no consequence for their sister's behaviour. This isn't a primary age child for heaven's sake, but a 14 year old who must surely have some notion of basic manners .... no-one's saying she has to like NADM but she should be polite, as I'm sure NADM is to her. I don't think it's fair to SS if his sister gets all her presents regardless of her attitude AND, regardless of even the tiniest bit of effort towards civility (even if realistically she'd probably be doing it under "sufference"). If she won't do that, then yes, IMO, I don't think she should get the presents ... she's (more than) old enough now to learn that actions have consequences and maybe, just maybe, sticking to her having to collect the presents might just make her think about how hurtful and rude she's being.

Personally, another time I'd send her her present alright ..... an envelope thanking her for her charity donation, but a thunderbolt will probably now descend on me for being so heartless .... I just hate entitlement, and people who expect money lavished on them irrespective of how they behave to the present giver.