So my opinion was asked about contact.......

[theredhen]

He actually asked my opinion!

Then correspondence was sent to ex wife. Only when I looked at the correspondence, instead of the 50% of the next school holidays WE had decided on, he added on a day here and a day there and he has ended up asking for 70%!

He also then told me that oldest DSD (age 14) has told him that she is old enough to decide when she comes, so will come when she wants.

This actually means that she will not be allowed back to Mum's when others are with us (because her Mum needs a break, even though she doesn't work at all), but will be encouraged to come at other times also.

When I moved in, I thought I knew what I was getting into, but my goodness, how things have changed. He is supposed to be a part time Dad, but partly due to sheer number and partly due to ex wife refusing to do anything, we are having 1 or some of the children now everyday. Even when they are off sick, he runs round to the ex wifes house and picks up the sick child and brings them home to spend the day with him.

I should point out that the reason I wanted to be consulted was so we could decide together which days the 50% contact be on, not for how much.

50% is a given, but as my work is the only work that can't just be chopped and changed and I am doing the lions share of care and housework, then it only seemed fair to me that I have a say on when they are here and when they are not within the parameters of the 50%, if that makes sense?

I would be absolutely furious. Livid. Ballastic.

I think I have to accept that there will be 5 children in my home all the time and that I will be bringing them up, with DP being out at work most of the time whilst I also work full time.

I think if I hope for anything less, then I am just going to be disappointed.

The thing is, I could have met someone else and had more kids of my own if I had known I was going to be having to sacrifice so much of my self for someone elses kids. I really thought I could just support DP in bringing up his kids some of the time, but it's just relentless.

Ex wife doesn't want to work - she doesn't. Ex wife doesn't want to look after her kids and spend some time doing what she wants - she gets days and days each week and weeks at a time in the holidays.

DP wants his kids as much as possible, he gets it (although he thinks he doesn't)

DS wants something nice - he can't have it because others will want it and we can't have them left out.

Redhen wants some peace / me time / DS/Mum time - I'm just being selfish!

Sadly Redhen, I think you've been hood-winked into all this. Maybe your partner had all the best intentions when you first moved in, that you'd only have his children at specific times, and that he'd be more 'hands-on'. But he's let it slide, and I'm at a loss to know how to change things.

I agree that, if you plan to stay, you need to accept that you'll have four extra children in your house the majority of the time, to the detriment of you and your son. It's just too easy for your DP to bring them all over, go back to work, and leave them all with you. Because, unless you actually move out, there's not very much you can do.

I really feel for you. When you have a stubborn non-resident-father who wants his kids under his roof regardless of anything/anyone else, it's VERY hard to successfully challenge the situation. I find my situation frustrating enough, but yours is in a different league. You are NOT being selfish.

Echo everything Redhen said and unfortunately I don't know what the answer is because unless you split up you are, by default, the main carer for 5 children a very large part of the time .... which is bloody tough when it wasn't what you anticipated, wasn't what was agreed on and wasn't as the result of some unforseen emergency. It strikes me, and has struck me several times before reading your story, that you are often little more than a babysitter for both your DH and his ex. When do you get your break ?!?

There is a refrain oft repeated on MN about "knowing what you were letting yourself in for" blah di blah with a man who has an ex and children but being prepared to take children on when fully consulted about it - and then it would usually be on a permanent basis - is rather different to this totally casual arrangement when you have no idea really on a day to day basis who's going to be there or not. It would drive me mad - especially like you say as you are doing most of the cooking, cleaning and caring. I don't know how you are supposed to plan anything when you're just taken for granted. In a way - though I wouldn't wish this upon you - it'd be better if DP had full custody as at least you'd know what was happening and could plan/budget accordingly .... plus, and I apologise if speaking out of turn, it would probably be easier from a discipline perspective as I imagine it's potentially hard when the kids flit between two households with inevitably different rules and standards.

I guess you could go on "strike" but practically that's not going to work is it and I think that you've basically ended up in an all or nothing situation where you have to either accept this rotten state of affairs (rotten because you can't rely on your DP to keep to his word or treat you with respect) or bail out. I know what I'd be inclined to do, for DS's sake if nothing else, particularly as you feel he misses out because of DP's haphazard arrangements.

If nothing else, please tell me that the percentage of time the skids are with you is reflected accordingly in any maintenance DP gives his ex. That really would be adding insult to injury if she refuses to anything whilst pushing the kids onto her ex you as often as she can. As for "refusing to do anything" I'm sure you know that DP is in effect enabling her to shirk her responsibilities if he always picks up the pieces. I'd be livid about that too as his idea of picking up the pieces seems to be to dump them on you.

Oh God Redhen, I don't know how you stand it but surely you deserve better than this ? And so does your son.

Excellent post Catsmother - unfortunately you're absolutely right, all Redhen can do is (a) put up with it; or (b) walk away. Although Option A is likely to cause many years of upset and resentment, not to mention the effect on her son. And whilst it's easy to advise her to take Option B, I expect she loves her partner, and love always clouds the water!

As I've said before: Lord give me the grace to accept the things I cannot change. In which case I hope Redhen has an awful lot of grace .....

The trouble is that;

a; Kids are now older and DP seems to think when he leaves the house with 5 children in, the eldest can take responsibility if need be, meaning I am free to come and go as I please. Whilst this is true to an extent, it means that he is keen to have them when I am at work and I am the one coming home to the abundance of work they bring. I am also not going to pass over responsibility to a 14 yr old while I am in the house. Ultimately I am the adult and the responsibility lies with me and yet I am not given any choice in when I take that responsibility unlike both of the birth parents!

b; Ex wife has a new boyfriend, so whereas she was keen to keep kids close to her and show she was capable. Nowadays she will think nothing of getting DP to do a 20 mile round trip for a journey that would put 3 miles on her car. Of course, she is never available to do any running about when it's our time to have the kids. DP and I are like ships that meet in the night when the kids are here.

I can go on strike to an extent but there are already things that I purposely don't do to try and help with the building resentment, but ultimately just being surrounded by children and having no space is the hardest thing to deal with. In fact, I find myself looking for chores because I have no opportunity to do anything nice for myself in the house when the kids are here.

I wish DP would understand that he could have us all, but by constantly pushing and pushing for more and more time with his kids until anything less than 24/7 isn't enough, he is pushing me away.

Oh dear Redhen....I am not surprised you feel pissed off. Christ only knows how you cope with FOUR stepchildren plus your own son!! I agree with Catsmother - it would be easier if you had full custody because you would have much more control over your domestic arrangements.

Easy to say in Mumsnet life, but you HAVE to talk to your DP about what it practically means to have your stepchildren over for more time. Forget even the emotional side of things (time with your son etc) - who is doing the shopping, cooking, organising, ferrying around for them? Quite simply, it is lovely that your DP wants to see more of his children but then he is going to either have to share the burden (sorry, joys!) of childcare or throw some money at the issue and get a nanny/au pair/housekeeper/whatever to help you out.

Now, even with some help, whether you want to see so much of your stepkids is another matter.......

Tooting,

I've said it before but actually DP is pretty good in a practical sense. He does get on with dinner, having it virtually ready by the time I get home or by sharing the job with me at weekends. Invariably he washes up too and one of the kids wipes up.

We have a cleaner, although she doesn't clean everywhere and do everything, but even so, I am lucky in that respect.

DP does most of the running about for the DSC but invariably that leaves me with 3 of them at home. This weekend, for example, DP will be out for 40 mins on Fri, 6 hrs on Sat, 3 hours on Sun as a minimum that I know about now. That's because of our very remote location and DSC sports and friends. Not surprisingly I have arranged to meet up with a friend for lunch on Saturday as an escape.

I do the shopping, but I have it delivered. I do all the washing and most of the ironing.

The hardest part is simply not having any space. I also feel loathed to invite friends over because it is so hard to cater for 12 for example, it just puts me right off. You can never find anywhere to just sit and talk without kids hassling you or shouting at each other.

If we had full custody, they would get a taxi to and from school meaning we would avoid the minimum of 3 school runs we do at the moment, sometimes more depending on clubs. I suspect DP and I would come to blows big time over discipline though as we are already struggling with different standards here. No matter how many times I point out that by him picking up after his kids, he is teaching them that picking up their stuff is optional, he agrees with me, then picks up after them while snapping at my son to do it himself and DSD2 (who is a little darling).

Catsmother, he does pay maintenance but more than he should do due to me and DS moving in. And there isn't a week go by when she / the kids don't ask for more money. We had DSD4 in tears the other week because the school were nagging her for some money for tuck and her Mum said we must pay it. It was £2 for the term and it was 2 months late. DSD2 is going on a school trip soon and because it falls on our weekend when she leaves, we are having to foot the bill for all the equipment. If the Mum was dropping her off at the bus, we would still be paying half.

Redhen, are you sure you are getting what you want out of this relationship? Sounds awful to me, and it doesn't sound as if your needs are taken into account.

In lots of other ways I feel respected, but you are right in thinking that I don't feel like that when it comes to the kids.

His attitude is that he wants his kids as much as possible and no-one is going to change that. Even when I explain I just want 1 day every 6 weeks where I am not woken up at 5am to his kids demands and I get to spend a nice relaxing day with my son. He still can't respect that very simple wish of mine. He is quite prepared to take responsibility for his ex and pick up her slack if it means he gets more time with his kids.

As I said before, it seems to me that DP, kids and ex all get what they want and DS and I have to shut up and put up. He wanted me to move in, but wants me to make all the compromises.

I think the only thing I can do is take myself out and sometimes take DS out to on our own and leave them to it. I am starting to feel very resentful of the children, which is not good, because it's not their fault.

MJ,

I've never been over endeared with work but at the moment it's my life saver.

DP has asked me to "throw a sicky" a few times recently, which I have NEVER done. Do you not think it would encourage him to have the kids even more and for me to feel even more resentful?

Magicjamas - you took the words right out of my mouth.

Redhen - I've been thinking about your situation all day; I totally get where you're coming from, but couldn't think of any sensible advice. However Magicjamas does have a point. You're practically a mother-of-five, and I don't how you can be expected to work AND run a home with so many children. OK, so they're not with you all the time, but their visits far exceed the usual 'alternate weekend' format, not to mention there's FOUR of time.

It seems that whilst all this drives you up the wall, you don't actually want to leave the relationship. And that's fine, you know the dynamics better than anyone. If I understand correctly, the problem is that (a) having so many extra people in the house is very stressful and you have no time to yourself; (b) your son is always outnumbered; and (c) you have no say in the access arrangements.

But if you didn't work, you wouldn't be trying to cram all the domestics into evenings and weekends when you could be spending time with your son. You would always get time to yourself when they are all at school. It wouldn't alleviate point (c) but it would be a start. It would take a LOT of stress from you, possibly making the "unchangeable" aspects of your situation more bearable?

I take my hat off to you; I work full time, and find it hard to 'keep house' to a high standard due to the lack of hours in the day, and thats only with one alternate weekend stepchild!

You've tried so hard to get your DP to change his stance, but to no avail. So rather than fighting against things you can't change, why not consider something you CAN change??? I've no idea what your DP's views would be on this, but you're really struggling with all this, something's got to give.

I realise you're not bio-mother to your DPs children, but whether you gave birth to them or not, the domestic workload they create remains the same.

I must confess I don't quite see where your DP is coming from on this. You say he's happy to pick up the slack for his ex if it means he gets more time with his kids, but from what you say it doesn't really mean this at all ... merely that they get to spend more time at your house because it seems he's absent so often when they are there. Maybe it does mean he sees them a little bit more when he finishes work but in the meantime, it's absolutely NOT FAIR that YOU - not him - pick up the slack by caring for his kids for hours at a time - without being consulted. (Your schedule this weekend sounds horrendous).

Do you think he sees them as some kind of pawns in a game with his ex ? As in .... if they're not with her but at his (even if he's not there) then he's kind of got one over on her - proving he's the responsible parent or something ? (even if he's not there).

I suppose "at least" it does sound as if you're not being unduly burdened with the practical side of all this but I understand totally and have huge sympathy for the emotional side of this. However nice/well behaved the kids are (or not) there's no doubt that 4 extra completetly alters the dynamics in your household and of course that's going to affect you and DS. DP is being ridiculous and irresponsible if he thinks it's not an issue because the 14 year old can take responsibility for her younger siblings. Quite apart from anything that's really unfair on her and any sensible and responsible adult wouldn't be able to ignore those 4 children by taking her for granted. Even suppose she was willing to become a parent figure for hours on end (very unlikely) with the best will in the world she won't have the life experience (or authority) to know what is safe, acceptable and appropriate in every given situation and realistically how much notice are the younger ones going to take if she attempts to discipline / control them ? That notion is plain ridiculous.

It boils down to you being used as an unpaid and unappreciated babysitter while both the ex and DP do what they want. Even if that is DP working, why the heck should you be looking after his kids without being asked if this is okay and, when your requests for a teensy bit of leeway and understanding so you get the occasional bit of time alone with your son, and/or can make arrangements to see friends in your own home uninterrupted are ignored or refused ? Taking yourself out - as I'm sure you know only too well - can only ever be a temporary measure and isn't always do-able due to money or weather. In any case, why shouldn't you sometimes be entitled to some simple peace and quiet in your own home ? In the long run, you are going to get more and more resentful about this and quite possibly damage your mental health, because this is about you being treated with no respect as if your feelings and opinions don't matter.

Trouble is - and I'm sorry if I'm speaking out of turn or upsetting you - there's no reason for DP to alter his attitude ATM. You've tried countless times to have him show you some respect and he just ignores it (e.g. 50% agreed turns into 70% NOT agreed) because your verbal protests don't actually affect him doing what he wants. He knows you are too responsible and kind to leave the skids alone - albeit in the "care" of a 14 year old - for very long, however angry you are about them being dumped on you. Unfortunately, I think the only way he's ever going to alter his attitude is if you left - I know that's a biggie. Surely then he wouldn't regularly leave the lot of them alone in the house for say 6 hours at a time ? What did he do before you moved in for example ?

I just wanted to comment on Catsmother's excellent point, re the DP thinking he's having proper access and being a responsible parent by taking them to his house ....... even if he's not present when this is going on. I've often referred to this as 'Access by Proxy' and this is what seems to be going on in Redhen's house.

I recognise the symptoms, as my DH thinks he's having access, just so long as he's removed SS from his mother's house. It doesn't matter if SS is hanging round an empty house while we're at work, or if DH leaves him with me while he goes out - providing SS is on DH's "watch", DH thinks he's doing the right thing by him. I've often suggested to DH, that he'd consider himself to be having access, even if he dropped SS off at MacDonalds from Thurs-Sun.

So in Redhen's house, the DP collects the children, lands them on Redhen, goes off to work - which in reality means abdicating all responsibliity for the children. Hence 'Access by Proxy.'

Which is all well and good if Redhen was in agreement with this, but that's clearly not the case. Some people would take to this like a duck to water, some people (like me) would run for their lives. But what is really unfair, is that the DP has no idea, or chooses to ignore, the massive impact this has on Redhen and her son. And there's four of them .........

I used to climb the walls with frustration when DH insisted having SS all day on Saturday, even if he was working 8am-6pm. His argument? "this is SS's home from Thurs-Sun, whether I'm working or not" - and I just couldn't get past that. To be honest, he knew darn fine he was being unreasonable, but it would have caused in unacceptable interruption to the THurs-Sun access weekend if he'd had to take SS back home. If I hadn't been in the house on Saturdays, he would still have left SS in the house while he went to work. Call that Access? Yeah right.

I really don't know how to advise Redhen, apart from giving up work, but I totally understand her frustration.

Just one last thing - Catsmother comments that surely, if Redhen weren't there, the DP wouldn't leave the children alone in the house for hours on end while he went to work?

I'm ashamed to report that before I met DH, he'd often left SS (aged 11 at the time) alone in the house for up to 10 hours while he went to work. If access were due to take place, it didn't seem to matter to DH that he would be absent, he'd dutifully collect SS from his mothers, take him to his house, wire up the PS2 (or whatever) make sure he knew where the fizzy drinks were, and then head off to work. In my opinion he should have been with a childminder, but DH couldn't have afforded that at the time. Of course, the ex didn't care about this, providing the child have been removed from her house, she wasn't bothered.

I could not live with this man. This just goes on and on and on......

Does he want YOU for you or as his Maria to his Captain von Trapp???

To be fair to DP most of the time the children are left alone is because of he is fetching and carrying for one of the other children.

This weekend schedule will be something like this;

Friday PM - 20 mins round trip drive to do school run 1, wait for half an hr to do school run 2(I would normally do this one, but I am working later this Fri), bring kids home, 30 mins later, 20 mins drive to do school run 3. 20 mins drive to pick up 1 DSC from evening job. 20 mins drive to take 1 DSC to a party. I will do 20 mins drive to pick up DSC from party.

Sat AM - DP does 1-2 hrs work in the early morning, then he will leave with 2 DSC to take them to 2 clubs and return 1.5 hrs later. 20 mins drive to pick up DSC1 from club.

Sat PM - DP may do 1 hr work in the office. 3 hrs round trip to take DSC1 to sports match he plays in.

Sat eve - DP is committed to a social event. I can go with him or stay at home with kids. If I do, he will be gone for 4 hours.

Sun AM - DSC1 will probably want to see boyfriend, so this involves 20 min drop off. DP will then come back and set off for another 3 hr stint with DSC for sports. He may well tie in picking up DSC from boyfriends on the return journey.

Like I say, this is what I know about at the moment, when they arrive, they may decide they want to visit friends or have friends over or may need something collected from Mum's etc.

So, you see, at the moment(this changes dramatically at certain times of year), he isn't working much at the weekends, but it is the running around for the children that is taking the time.

While he is driving 1 child, I am left at home with 4 children, 3 of them being step children. DP could get DSS to go in a mini bus to his sports events but because DP likes the sport, he wants to go and leaves me with the girls one of which wants to do drama and DP keeps putting off organising it for her.

It's ridiculous.

He doesn't want a partner he wants an events co-ordinator. What about your son, redhen?

DP, however, will be working for approx 6 hrs a day during the Easter holidays when DSC will be here.

DP picks up the slack during our non contact times too. So will regularly do a 30 or 40 min drive to pick kids up or take them somewhere because ex wife doesn't want to. Obviously this means he is out for a lot of the evening in "our" time, while his ex wife sits at home with her boyfriend having a takeaway (and I know this for a fact).

To whoever said that DP wouldn't leave DSC alone if I weren't here - yes he would. He might well take the youngest DSC with him if eldest DSD wasn't here but he would leave the others at home. He doesn't stop me from going out and he doesn't seem the slightest bit bothered about leaving them at home for hours at a time. The 4 eldest are all OK to be left in the house alone and they have each other to look out for.

DP is still waiting to hear from ex wife about 70% suggested time. I suspect she is talking to her (non live in) boyfriend and making plans that fit around him. Ironic isn't it?!

I have been thinking about the suggestion to give up work and admit it is not a daft suggestion at all. It would give me a lot more space and time and I could study to do a job I REALLY want to do later in life. The problem is a bit of viscous circle. Because I feel very insecure in my relationship, I am clinging onto the bit of familiarity and independence I have but of course this is making the limited time I have with DS or at times the house would be empty an issue. I would be absolutely terrified of "no escape" from the step children. The money issue would be interesting too. At the moment I pay for everything for myself and DS out of my own money, I also pay for all the food for all 7 of us and run my own car. DP pays all the bills and maintenance, everything for his kids. We share everything else. DP made a comment once to DS about how he pays for the expensive things in this house and he will have to learn that he makes the decisions. . We had a "discussion" about that one and he apologised saying he was just used to paying for everything for all his life (ex wife never worked) that it was just habit, but I hated him for it as I felt he was undermining me in front of my son.

I don't know what the answer is. I think somewhere in my heart, I don't think this is going to work. Maybe he needs someone more "motherly", and I'm just not up to the job? I want him to understand the impact having the children here has on me. I want to look forward to having the children, not feel powerless when they come. Not feel that I am forced into doing things I don't want to do.

Do you know when I was single I can remember saying to myself that I was content with my life because I don't have to do anything I don't want to do. Here I am, just a few years later, feeling so completely undermined and disrespected.

I know I keep coming on here and venting, and nothing seems to be any different from when I last came on. I am trying to make it different but as someone said earlier, my "words" and even my actions of going out and leaving him with kids, have no effect on him. I think he is happy for me to go out when the kids are here and I rarely here from him which is different to when he is home alone when I get a lot of texts. Makes me feel like a child substitute!

I think I would have gone mad without all your support.

Wendi,

DS does an after school club one day per week, and a friend and I alternate the pick ups.

DS also does an outside club which is 30 mins drive away. Different friend and I alternate the driving on this too.

Sometimes DS will have a friend over and this does involve an hr round trip to drop them back but they normally come home on the bus, so just involves a 20 min drive as normal to bus stop.

We don't have any public transport and we have to live here for DP work. So, we have none of the popping out to the park or to the shops with friends that DS was starting to do when we lived in our own home. Not kids fault, just the geography.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that it's all about the steps and DS gets nothing. But, this is such a long running thing and nothing seems to change, it just gets worse.

I think majic's correct.... your partner would have a breakdown if he thought it was all down to him. This heavily involved dad thing is only working because YOU are it's backbone. What possible life do the two of you have. It's a very big ask, taking on all that lot. You seem to have coped well but, I think he can see that you want to do what you can and he'll just let you keep doing it.

It's not a combined family you have there....it's a bloody three ring circus!!

"Roll up, roll up....come see the amazing redhen trying to keep all the plates spinning without turning into a headless chicken".

I just think he, his ex-wife (and his many of kids) are taking the rise.

Take care hen, you don't have some kind of breakdown, there.

if I were you, I'd start looking at nice little 2 bedroom houses.