So my opinion was asked about contact.......

[theredhen]

He actually asked my opinion!

Then correspondence was sent to ex wife. Only when I looked at the correspondence, instead of the 50% of the next school holidays WE had decided on, he added on a day here and a day there and he has ended up asking for 70%!

He also then told me that oldest DSD (age 14) has told him that she is old enough to decide when she comes, so will come when she wants.

This actually means that she will not be allowed back to Mum's when others are with us (because her Mum needs a break, even though she doesn't work at all), but will be encouraged to come at other times also.

When I moved in, I thought I knew what I was getting into, but my goodness, how things have changed. He is supposed to be a part time Dad, but partly due to sheer number and partly due to ex wife refusing to do anything, we are having 1 or some of the children now everyday. Even when they are off sick, he runs round to the ex wifes house and picks up the sick child and brings them home to spend the day with him.

The reason I say this is because it's not Him Bringing Up His Children with support from you, it's actually You Bringing Up HIS CHildren with support from him!

We do 3 school runs, because they go to 3 different schools. 1 primary and 2 different secondaries. Combine this with 1 or 2 of them doing an after school club and it can add up to 5 children coming out at 4 different times.

Ex wife got snotty a few years back because he was refusing to let children attend after school clubs because of all the ferrying about. She threatened to stop him seeing them on school days, so now he just fits round whatever they want to do. He really struggles to get them to tell him when they are coming out of school, so sometimes he sits and waits and they don't even come out.

DP is a big earner (which is amazing considering the amount of holiday he takes, how many other fathers have their children for over 6 weeks of the holidays in a year as well as being there if they're sick and before/after school) so if I were to give up work, we could manage, I just don't know if I could stand him picking fault with every penny I would spend on DS. I suspect he would say his kids could have more pocket money, for example, because they go to local school which involves no bus fare, whereas I have to pay for bus fare for DS. I think he likes the idea of me working, but not the practicalities. He doesn't like it when he has to come home and cook his own dinner sometimes or when I don't sit down to be with him til 9pm.

If he says "no" to his ex, the kids won't attend clubs, see their friends etc. This does happen, although eldest 2 get on public transport sometimes now from their Mum's house. He is very keen for DSS to pursue any amount of sports and organises things for him, but because he doesn't like dance / drama, he is putting off organising anything for his daughter. I am stopping myself from organising it for her because then I feel, I am adding more to the already massive agenda.

We do get time as a couple, but not on contact weekends / days. DS goes to his Dad's every other weekend (although this is a bit hit and miss) and DSC are with their Mum. Sometimes DP will go off and ferry kids around, but at least I'm not left with 3 in the house. So, he gets his quality time with me, time with his kids - he's happy. Simple.

I had a partner before I met DP, who I didn't live with and who tried to insist I had his kids while he went off to play golf. His ex wife backed him up and told him I was being unreasonable as I had had them when he had gone to work before. Basically she didn't want her kids and neither did she, but the kids were told that "redhen doesn't want you". The kids were left to roam the streets and wait outside the golf club. When I see those kids now, I still feel terrible for them. I know I did nothing wrong, and the "real" parents were the ones who should feel ashamed. I just wonder if I am odd and uncaring? I feel pushed into a corner, where I have to look after them and if I don't, then I am obviously some sort of wicked witch.

I do wonder if he really appreciated the effect it has on me and on DS. When we talked about Sat eve, and I said I wanted to go and see my friend but couldn't because we are committed to his social event, he said I could still see my friend and what a good idea, because then she can come to me. Of course this leaves me with 5 kids to put to bed while trying to have a glass or 2 of wine, while DP swans off with his friends. He honestly didn't think for one minute, I woudln't think it was a good idea!

It was literally only weeks ago, that I sat him down, had a big rant, calmed down and calmly explained that I feel this is not my home, I am not respected, I am not happy and I have a very strong urge to go back to my own house. My house was "between tenants" at the time and the draw to go back was very strong. He got upset, kept saying how we have something special and said he would consider my needs a lot more. Since then, he has been "asking" me every time he runs up the road for 20 mins if it's OK with me. God knows what he would do if I said "no". Probably pack all the moaning kids in the car and tell them "redhen doesn't want you". He told me he would definetely consider what I wanted when it came to school holidays as he knows what upset it caused last time. So he snaps at me before he even asks me, makes sure he asks me in front of DSD and tells me how she will be "turning up" whenever she feels like it as she is old enough now. I suppose I am waiting for ex wifes response before I go nuts at him because she might just want to have her kids for more than a few days in the holiday. That's what I'm pinning my hopes on - a woman who won't even meet me, hoping she can make me happier than DP can!

You are most definitely NOT "odd and uncaring". My God woman, you are practically a saint and have done far far more than I would ever be capable of (without having a nervous breakdown).

It strikes me that your DP "listens" to you - as in the rant the other week - but doesn't actually hear you if that makes sense. I just don't think he "gets" what you're trying to convey - either that, or he's being deliberately obtuse so life carries on for him as per usual. Asking you about him popping up the road completely misses the point, and asking your opinion about arrangements in front of the children is underhand and places you in an impossible position ..... but I guess he might justify that with something along the lines of "see, you wanted me to ask you more, so I'm asking ...." (regardless of the time and place).

I've long thought that there are some men (and it's usually men) with kids for whom the attraction, or one of the major attractions, of a partner is the help she brings him in raising/caring for those kids. Obviously two pairs of hands are better than one, but some men really do flounder at looking after their kids themselves and some of them believe it's more "natural" that a woman should be doing this for them (even if she's not related to the children). It certainly sounds like your ex was one of these .... when you refused to help him you were verbally attacked as if it was your duty, and I wonder if there's not an element of this with your DP too. His life would certainly be a lot more complicated and difficult if you weren't there, and you are definitely being taken for granted. So many of his ideas are so very wrong .... the pocket money thing you suspect would happen for example, that's appalling. Pocket money is a treat whereas bus fares are a necessity.

If you want to save this relationship, do you think your DP might consider counselling ? I just wonder if a neutral 3rd party might be able to help him see your point of view and help him understand how biased and unfair the current situation is - to you and DS ?

It's strange, you know that he's being utterly unreasonable and frankly it's ALL about him, his children, what his ex wants etc and yet, you then justify it all.

Yes, you are in a relationship with a man with 4 kids, plus yours makes 5 but....the kids have taken over everything. I wonder whether, if he and his ex were together, would they have put their foot down and said "this is all too much - how can we cut down on this to-ing and fro-ing?" I know that parents of teens spend most of their time taxi-ing their offspring around. My DH is the same....UP TO A POINT. But, he draws a line, consults me and and so far I've never been made to feel I'm last on the list!!!! We have 4 between us. His 3, and I have one son.

I'd move out and let him get on with it. If not, he will NEVER make any changes. You will be here on MN, feeling unhappy and put-upon FOREVER and it will be your own doing.

This man is not going to consider you unless you consider yourself.

Since then, he has been "asking" me every time he runs up the road for 20 mins if it's OK with me. God knows what he would do if I said "no".

Redhen, you actually have to say no sometimes. The trouble with being a SM is that you can see what everyone needs and how it can be facilitated. So you agree to things, and then you remember you have forgotten all about yourself.

You need to think about what is and isn't acceptable. Number one on my list would be no ferrying DCs around on non-contact time. He is their dad, not a babysitter. Number two would be no going off with one DC leaving the others at home for hours. If DP can't live without taking his DSS to some club, what can he suggest as a solution or compromise? Take them all with him and let the others hang around? Limit it to one, very special club?

You have to work out what you are happy with, what you can cope with, and what is definitely too much - and then stick to it. You also have to be prepared to resist the idea that the DSCs relationship with their dad is the most important thing in your family. It is important, yes, but in a blended family everyone has to lose out a bit, including the DSCs. And including the DP. Otherwise it isn't working for you, and you matter too.

I think I have problems with boundaries - letting him dictate to me/DS what is happening and me trying to accept it. Feeling like I am "wrong" to put my own needs first and that I am being selfish, unkind and uncaring for not allowing him to put his needs first. It's not the first time this has been an issue for me and I thought I had addressed it through counselling a while ago.

His ex wife complained he was "controlling" and I think this is what I am experiencing.

If he wants his kids 24/7, why can't he accept that I don't want to live with him? Why can't he see that a compromise could keep us all happy?

The truth is, he is doing exactly what he wants and having me at home too. He might consider what I want to watch on TV or make me a cup of tea, but my basic rights to have time to myself, a right over what goes on in my own home, rights to have time with my child are being walked all over at best and completely dismissed at worst.

I am going to talk to him about giving up work (not that I think I will actually do this), about whether he has informed his daughter that she/he will have to check with me before turning up anytime at ours and why he didn't respect my wishes on the holidays again. I will suggest counselling too.

My thoughts-

1. Do not give up work. You will feel a thousand times more put upon and undervalued, and it puts you in a dependent and beholden position. Not good.

1. Don't think of yourself as un-maternal. Lots of perfectly lovely mothers are not cut out for coping with lots and lots of children - they need space and quiet too much. And that's assuming they are their own children! Personally I'd be a gibbering wreck if I had four (or five) children.

1. Your dp isn't your ds's father is he? In which case, if you left, you wouldn't be depriving him of a father?

Have you considered whether you could maintain a relationship with your dp, but just not live together? There is no law that says you have to do it the expected/conventional way - and personally, I think it might be the only way to save your relationship. You would have your own space, be responsible for your own son, and when you see your partner it would be about the two of you, not about domestic drudgery.

There have been some interesting comments over the last 24 hours.

The schedule of school pick-ups and after-school clubs is insane, not to mention the weekend schedule. I?m sure most parents with large families do their best to ensure their children participate in after-school and weekend stuff, but there is a LIMIT. As someone said, I wonder if the DP were still with his ex, if they?d run round like idiots, as if they were a cab company. I think there?s some real guilt-parent going on here. He?s so dedicated to his children, that it completely skews the rest of his life. Sadly, he probably thinks he?s doing a really great job.

Even if Redhen weren?t there, he?d probably carry on in a similar manner, running round like an idiot doing lifts, and leaving them all at home while he goes to work. He?d just have one less person to do lifts, and I doubt there?d be much cleaning or laundry being done.

I agree the comment that he should NOT do ferrying around on non-contact days. He simply validates his ex?s lazy behaviour. Mind you, my ex used to charge around between his/ex?s house on non-contact days, if ever SS had forgotten a school book/clothes/DVDs etc. His excuse? If I don?t do it, then my kids miss out. But since we?ve moved, the distance is too great, and it doesn?t happen any more.

Redhen, is there any way your DP would continue the relationship if you lived separately? Because I can see no other way forward. I doubt very much if your DP will change his attitude and behaviour ? so unless you?re prepared to accept the status quo, I don?t know what else you can do.

No definitely don't give up work. You will have no options then.

I think the key is to let go of the perfect-Sm thing. You have to be prepared to stand there and say 'No you cannot see your DC then, because we have agreed xxxx.' Otherwise the natural desire of a parent to see his kids will always override anything else.

The fact is your DP has no boundaries with his kids - which is totally understandable. But boundaries are what need to be put in place if you are to manage a blended family successfully. And actually this is what you naturally do with your own children as part of any normal family.

Yes, DP is very, very insecure when it comes to his kids. He lets them talk and treat him very badly sometimes. I feel they have very little respect for him. He is frightened they won't want to see him if he doesn't spend every minute chasing around after them.

I also think he hasn't really "let go" of his marriage. Although he hates his ex, he says he doesn't understand why she went, he feels the relationship was fine until one day she upped and left. This does make me feel that he is very good at not really considering anyone elses needs and just blunders through doing what he wants, oblivious to anyone else. He has a very good job and he is in charge of a lot of people / money etc. and I wonder if he carries this through into his private life?

As for living apart, I did suggest it to him a few weeks ago. I said we could carry on our relationship but live apart. He said it was "going backwards" and we might as well give up. Which of course, just makes me feel that it isn't really ME he wants as rather a "someone".

Before he met me, he was continually dating and within days of his wife leaving. I have tried to see this as just a "man" thing, but I think he is very insecure.

I have to stop being frightened that he will tell the children "I don't want them", which I think he will do to show that it's not him not wanting to see them and have to show him that I have the right to have what I want too.

Redhen, hopefully he won't feel the need to do that but you are right, you do have to let go of how others will judge you.

Also redhen, your DP does sound like a good man. He asked your opinion, even if he couldn't quite take it on board, and he has tried to check things out with you. And he is, of course, a loving dad, which is nice. You need to keep on talking, and keep getting really really clear about what is and isn't okay, and hopefully you will get there.

I hope things work out for you both redhen but, you seem to have been talking about this for such a long time.....

Have the feeling you'll still be in the same position in 5 years time....

But Slimbo, I look at you with even more steps than me and think OMG, how does she do it? Only one of my steps is under 12 and none of them are here full time.

I do agree that my job is my security but I have been thinking my finances are just another thing that makes life easier for DP and DSC whilst my standard of living (apart from being in a bigger house) hasn't really changed.

We had a "chat" this evening. He tried to say I was being petty when I complained that he had discussed things with me, then changed the dates when it came to contacting the ex. He said it wasn't much "different" to what we had agreed and when I tried to point out how little his ex wife would see the children over the break, he pretended to not realise that 11 nights to us and 5 nights to her is not 50%. I also said he was out of order for having the discussion in front of the DSD and I had to tell him that it is not acceptable to allow DSD to turn up when she feels like it without consulting me first. He tried to say that if he didn't see them on such and such day, it would be a long break for him and that he is arranging a lot of this round me because we are supposed to be going away for a weekend. To be honest, I would rather have a weekend with DS anyway!

He has apologised and I have left it at that.

As for the clubs, he has already volunteered to take all the children to DSS club on Saturday and take them shopping, which is good.

I am still in a dilema about what to do about Saturday night. Leave all kids here to run riot and go with DP? Leave them all to it and see a friend instead? Or invite friend here while all 5 are here.

After I have stood my ground, I end up feeling "guilty" for upsetting him, although I do also feel very glad for making my point and I know I made it well.

That sounds really really good, redhen. It's okay to feel guilty but don't show it!

I'm not showing it. [Smile].

I'd go out, and leave them to it, but then I'd be worried about leaving my ds!!!

God......damned if you do and damned if you don't!!

hi... if he is a high earner and the day to day drudgery of cooking / cleaning/ ferrying about is getting to you (as it would to most!!) why not get a cleaner/homehelp/nanny person who can do all that (or some of it...)? If he could support you giving up work, then he could afford to pay someone to do that work and be no differently off financially. You would also get to keep your job which I think is essential to maintain independance.

Wendi,

That is exactly it. DS is fine to leave alone for short periods - really sensible. DSC are another matter however....

Late,

We already have a cleaner. I think it is more the never getting more than the odd half hour here and half hour there at weekends to do anything because there is always another pick up / take to go and do. Also, never getting near the tv or a computer and never getting a minutes peace. Those are the hardest parts.

I take your point Redhen, that the main bugbears are the fragmented days due to all the pick-ups, and the lack of peace and time to yourself. I think there are simply too many children in the equation for it to be any different.

I honestly think you need decide if you can live like this, or if you'd prefer not to. I just can't see it changing for you.

What colditz said

He needs a slave, not a life partner!

I can't help thinking that if you give up work he'll expect you to have his children even more...

Also meant to say, it's no wonder he wanted you to move in with him - he's got an unpaid live-in housekeeper/child minder!

I don't know if anyone has suggested this, and apologise as I have not reas all the posts. But what if you and ds moved out and you continued your relationship?

It may not be forever, and at least you would have your own home, space, and time with ds. And then you and dp could date and actually enjoy each other again.

Once the kids are older and probably don't want to go to dads so often then you could think about co-habiting again.

Just a thought as someone else suggested this to me.