I become invisible during access visits

[cobbledtogether]

I have a step daughter, who is lovely and we get on fine.

My problem is that I just can't work out what happens to my DH when she's visiting. Its like I become invisible and my feelings mean nothing.

Earlier today I came downstairs to find that they had both gone out. Nothing had been mentioned about going out, they'd just gone. I had no idea where to or how long. At first I thought they'd gone to the shop, but after an hour they'd not come back, so I texted to ask how long they'd be so I could make plans - no reply.

I waited for about another 30 mins then text again. No reply, but they came back about 15 mins after that. As soon as SD was out of earshot, I got an earful about texting and chasing them up as he was allowed to spend time without me there.

This really annoyed me as of course he is and I don't interfere in their time, but I thought it was fair enough on a Saturday to want to know if they were going to be out all day and also thought it was reasonable for him to mention that they were going out in the first place.

This isn't the first time this has happened and its really beginning to piss me off.

I could possibly understand his actions if SD and I didn't get on, but we actually like each other and spend time alone when DH is at work quite happily.

He says I need to understand that her visits are their time. I say that's fine, but it shouldn't stop him from at least letting me know if they are off out somewhere.

I'm beginning to wonder if it is me

With respect, I am a step parent as well as a biological parent, and I certainly do not refer to my step children as 'step brats'.

And I am entitled to attack the views of others, whilst respecting their right to hold those unsavoury views.

Actually it's a topic within an open forum called "step-parent ing ".

Not just for step-parents. For anyone effected by or interested in issues relating to step-parenting.

In any case surely colditz has as much right to comment (as she has) about the "step-parent" relationship her partner has with her children - likening her position to that of the father in the OP.

Crossed posts - was faffing about with the italics.

Has it occurred to any of you that these children miss their fathers? That maybe, just maybe, they want their dad's attention without having a spoilt womanchild butting into everything and demanding attention like a toddler left out of a game?

Yes, absolutely it has, which is why I make damn sure that I don't butt in. However I don't think it makes me a "spoilt womanchild" to think I still deserve a bit of common courtesy while his child is here.

Has it ever occured to you that there its in the best interests of everyone if the bio parent, step parent and child all behave with courtesy to each other? That's not me being spoilt, its being sensible.

There seems to be this idea that if you are a stepparent you have to put up and shut up about any bad behaviour on the part of the bio parents and their children.

Frankly I would advise anyone thinking of entering into a relationship with someone who already has children to think long and hard about it as its a bloody minefield and if the kids are OK, you've still got their birth mum/dad to put up with.

hmmm - perhaps my last paragraph was a bit harsh, especially since I actually have a decent relationship with birth mum.

I'm just a leeetle tetchy about this subject at the mo.

I'll try putting it another way.

If your friend had her husband, who was living away through no fault of his own, come to visit her, and they went out without you - would you digitally chase them around trying to find out where they were and what they were doing and why they had gone out without you and how long they were going to be .... do you not think that would come across to your friend and her husband as needy and interfering?

Your partner and his child have a relationship. It does take precedence over your relationship with him. If he's doing something with his child, it must be very annoying to have to break out of that bubble to reassure you that he has gone to X place, he will be home at Y time, and you should amuse yourself with Z!

You're a grown up lady, could you not have gone out or stuck a DVD on or something?

Bit harsh colditz we are just talking about manners I wouldn't go out with our son without telling my DH what we were up to surely that's just part of being in a family. One of thebiggest bug bears for me as a step mum is lack of communication between all parties andnow my SD is a very bad communicator for me its about setting an example to all kids, step, bio, niece, nephew whatever

Firstly Colditz it was me - not the OP who used that term - and crossed out so not to be taken too seriously ( as in 'letting off steam' - if thats allowed on here ? ).

I take exception to your predjudised view of stepmothers who dont have their own children - surely a stepmum with kids of her own can be 'very spoilt and demanding' as can anybody else really whatever their parental or other status.

Just a few more exceptions to go then - I am not my OHs partner - I am his wife/his legal next of kin/joint and equal owner of our home - so sorry but nobody has more 'right to his time' than I have.

Then theres my 'relative newcomer' - ( who should therefore take a back seat presumably ) status ? Wrong again I have been with my DH over seven years - hardly a newcomer !

And as for these 'children,dependants' - we are not talking about little innocent toddlers - we are talking about older teenagers and in my case adult stepkids - huge difference - and you seriously dont think that teenagers/young adults cant ever be 'brats' - or even be referred to as such.

Oh and by the way - your theory about my attitude being related to not having kids of my own is - last but not least - well and truly out of the water - I have two of my own - so I also can see both perspectives. Sorry !

His children have more right to his time that you have. It's a supremely self centred view to think otherwise. Owning half a house with someone does not mean you usurp their child's position in their heart.

As for having your own children - what's your point? You have children of your own - that doesn't mean you are being pleasant to your partner's children.

As for being a relative newcomer - well, relative to your partner's children, they were there first and he loves them more than he loves you, even if he's too scared of your attitude to say so. That's how normal fathers feel about their children. You are second in his affections, as is everyone when they are competing against children, and as it should be.

horrible situation for you. of course he needs time alone with his DD but apart from anything else it's common courtesy to let you know what he's doing.

I'm a stepmum, I've been with my now-DH for 8 years and right from the start we were spending time with the kids as a couple - but always made it clear they could have him to themselves too. but we're family and we love spending time together - in fact my DSDs prefer me to DH :o

sorry if I've missed it upthread but how old is your DSD, and how long have you been with DP? and what does DSD feel about the current access arrangement?

"His children have more right to his time that you have. It's a supremely self centred view to think otherwise. Owning half a house with someone does not mean you usurp their child's position in their heart."
I like to think there's a bit more to my relationship with my DH than just owning half a house with him!

When my DH & I got married we made a commitment to each other and while I fully accept that he has children who love and depend on him and who he loves immeasurably, I also believe that if divorced fathers are not able or willing to "make room" for a new partner in their familiy then they shouldn't commit to one.

I think, Colditz, that you are missing the point a bit here. I believe that all the step-mothers posting here treat their DSC well. They don't ignore them, disrespect them, call them names, disregard their feelings and needs and definately don't behave like a "spoilt woman-child". In RL they get on with it in spite of getting all the above treatment and worse in return.

Then they come on here and are able to vent their frustrations with a group of people who know what they are going through and lend a sympathetic ear. This forum helps step-mums to manage their feelings and get through the very real and well documented difficulties associated with being a step-mum. What is written here is NOT a reflection of how step-mums are treating their DSC - it's an outlet for the perfectly reasonable and valid feelings that step-mums have, and it helps. If it helps us then ultimately it must also be helping the SC.

just out of interest what happens when a stepmum and the DH have their own kids?

when the stepkids are over, does the new baby get ignored as well?

Colditz, you?re being rather judgemental. If you?d read this thread properly, you?d see the majority of us actually like our step children, but find our partners? behaviour frustrating.

So to get back to the original point of the thread, do you honestly think it?s acceptable that the OP?s husband should just go out with his daughter, without having the courtesy to mention that he?s leaving the house? That?s just plain rude IMO.

And then we had my husband, who had a hissy fit a few weeks ago because I didn?t shut the toilet door properly. Again, not SS?s fault, but rather strange behaviour from my husband.

To quote Glasscompletelybroken, I would also like to think that there?s more to my relationship with my husband, than simply being a joint property owner! I?m his WIFE ffs. I also agree with her comment that ?if a divorced father is not willing to ?make room? for a new partner within the family, then he shouldn?t make that commitment.?

A lot of men understandably want a new partner, but give little thought to how it all fits together on access weekends. I?ve often said to my husband, that whilst it might make life easier, I can?t just temporarily evaporate when SS arrives, only to ?re-form? when he goes back home

Algebra makes a good point too ? what happens if the DH and stepmum have kids, does the new baby get ignored too when the stepkids come over? Well in some cases yes. Which is very sad. Again, it?s a case of a normal, decent man who develops blinkers when the stepkids arrive.

I think it all boils down to guilt. You?ve heard the phrase DisneyDad? The non-resident, guilt ridden father who will do the most insane things to indulge their child?s every whim. It?s not healthy.

I'm a mum, and a stepmum, and my older child is also a stepchild ... so I've endured seen every possible permutation of step family life there is, apart from ever having been a stepchild myself.

This particular situation isn't about time spent together between the natural parent and their natural child ... but about basic courtesy and respect. Respect for another adult, respect for your partner, and respect for the person who also - presumably - contributes - both financially and practically to the family household^ .... the one which enables stepchildren to be housed, fed, clothed, entertained, emotionally supported etc etc etc.

Unless I've missed it I don't think the OP has said "boo hoo hoo, my DH spends time with his daughter and I feel left out and it's not fair". What she has commented upon is that when this happens, her husband is inclined to disappear without a single word .... which is bloody rude and contemptuous ..... which sends a message that for the duration, his wife isn't worthy of simple manners ..... and then, he compounds the situation by firstly ignoring her polite enquiries about how long they'd be and then berating her for "daring" to ask such an apparently impertinent question at all.

There is a world of difference between him spending some one on one time with his daughter, which is okay ..... and him using that time to treat his wife as if she doesn't matter at all. His behaviour would be equally unacceptable if he went off in the same way with a child who was the natural child of both of them and she'd have every right to feel equally put out about that.

The extra info about his failure to discipline his daughter and/or at least speak to her about the silent phone calls - let alone apologise himself for having a go at the OP for ranting at her about her (justified) suspicions makes him sound like a father who isn't prepared to parent .... not properly. Time and again, "absent" fathers are terrified of disciplining, disagreeing with, or refusing the demands of the children who don't live with them. Some of that attitude is due to guilt - no matter how their relationship broke down, others are susceptible to perceived, or actual, threats about contact being reduced/stopped should they dare cross the child(ren) and/or their ex in any way. He's setting a terrible example and behaving inappropriately ..... if his daughter is aware that BH is being ignored in this way when she visits, it gives her the message that it's okay to do the same - and that sets a very dangerous precedent where the child is effectively handed an inappropriate level of control within the family. And by failing to address the phone situation, he's allowed her to get away with something that's wrong - it's his duty to tackle such stuff and explain to her why it's wrong, why it could be upsetting, why she shouldn't do it and so on.

All this talk of putting children 1st .... most people would intrpret that as ensuring the children's basic needs are met before the adults. So, for example .... it would be wrong for them to go hungry while the adults ate ..... but it does NOT mean allowing children to disrespect adults. Children thrive when the relationships between the significant adults in their life are seen to be mutually respectful and supportive .... that is what makes a child (step or bio) feel safe and secure. It would be far far better for his daughter's emotional well being to see her dad and her stepmum in a good relationship, than for her to witness him treating her rudely. That's going to create an "us and them" scenario, where "us" is him and SD, and them is OP. Hardly conducive to good family relations !

Treating the OP with respect does NOT preclude DH spending special time with his daughter .... it's ridiculous to suggest that enabling that somehow negates the need for manners and courtesy. Perhaps they are even more important in a step family than in a totally "bio" family because inevitably, some step children are going to feel less secure and they therefore need to see and experience a really solid family set up.

OP .... given that your DH has an attitude of visits being "her time" does that mean you're not expected to get involved at all ? Does that mean that HE cooks all her meals for example, does all her washing, gets her room ready and so on ? If not, then he's being a bloody hypocrite on top of everything else.

Catsmother - Thanks for putting things a lot better than I could. I'm feeling a little too riled at the moment to do well reasoned argument.

In answer to your question - Of course he doesn't do everything.

Hmmm .... suspected you were going to say that.

It's really not fair is it ? (like you need me to tell you that) You contribute to making SD's visits happen and be enjoyable, yet you aren't worthy of simple respect because his daughter's here ?!? So, so wrong .... it puts the child waaayyy above you in the pecking order, and gives her the message that she's more important than you are. I don't think that's a healthy message to send any child - step or bio - because it can lead to kids being spoilt, demanding and manipulative once they suss they're untouchable so far as at least one of their parents is concerned.

You mentioned another child .... whether they're your (singular) child or your child with DH, that also doesn't bode well if he's disappearing with SD only on a regular basis. Sure .... repeating yet again that there's nothing wrong with one on one time every so often but if you're a family there should also be family time, and, DH is going to have to be very careful that his behaviour isn't perceived by the other child as favouring SD. Particularly so if the child in question is also DH's. Similarly, don't know how old child is but they will soon work out from your "don't know" response that DH isn't showing you some basic courtesy - how the heck is that going to look ?

Something else that occurred to me .... this shouldn't even be about him not telling you he's off out, it should be about him not discussing his plans with you - unless we're talking about a quick 15 mins to the shop (and even then you should get a "just popping to the shop" before he goes). In other words, I wouldn't be happy if he simply told you that he was going out for 2 hours, end of. Couples discuss stuff liked that surely ? There's all sorts of reasons why him deciding unilaterally to disappear would cause problems.

It was the step brats comment that I found so devastating.

I adore my step children and would never even think of them as step brats. Yet every weekend I send my children to their father's. What if they are thought of as "step brats" there?

I suppose I had assumed that everyone else had the same tolerance and understanding of the issues faced by stepchildren - and it shook me to find I was wrong, and that many children are being thought of as a bratty interferance rather than the focus of their visiting time (which my step children are when they come to us)

?Time and time again, ?absent? fathers are terrified of disciplining, disagreeing with or refusing the demands of the child who doesn?t live with them?.

Very well put Catsmother, I think this applies to 95% of the situations we hear about on the Step-parenting board.

?You contribute towards making SD?s visits happen AND be enjoyable, yet you aren?t worth of simple respect just his daughter?s here???????

Again, I wish I could write as eloquently as you, because you?ve hit the nail on the head. It makes it damn clear (albeit in a non-verbal way) that the child is head and shoulders above the OP in the household and I agree it?s a very questionable way to behave. My SS must have realised long ago that he is held in almost fanatical esteem by his father, and to be fair he rarely takes advantage of his ?diplomatic immunity?. However a few weeks ago, during an access weekend, I mentioned my father would be calling round that evening, only for SS to say ?but isn?t it MY weekend?? ? in other words, he?s been conditioned by husband to think that access weekends are sacred, ring-fenced events ? again, not healthy.

Colditz ? I think when the term ?step brats? was used, it was rather tongue in cheek It?s impossible to say how your ex?s partner views YOUR children when they visit, although I think a lot will depend on how balanced a view your ex takes during those visits. If he morphs in a DisneyDad, then I suspect his partner will find it difficult, no matter how nice your kids are.

I think lots of us show high levels of tolerance and understanding ? it?s just that these qualities are frequently tested to the limit by the earlier-mentioned DisneyDads. Can I reiterate it?s the fathers who tend to cause the frustration, not the actual children.

You say that when your stepchildren visit you, they become your focus during their visit. Which is fine to a point, but doesn?t that make it quite impossible for normal domestic life to continue? If they only visited occasionally, then I could see your point, but if they?re with you on 50% of weekends, surely your life must grind to a halt if all your focus is spent on the stepchildren? I?ve had times when I couldn?t get my car serviced on an access weekend, we couldn?t take the cat to Saturday morning surgery with the vet, we couldn?t paint the landing cos it clashed with an access weekend ??.. I could cite many more examples. But surely it?s best for all parties if Real Life continues as normal, rather than creating a sanitised bubble for the step kids?

Colditz - I highlighted the more time with my DH. As in nobody has a 'right' to more time - who said anything about usurping their rights ? When theyre little or young teens I agree their needs take precedent. Then they grow away from their dependant family unit and form their own or at least become independant - and as my Step - 'children' are 24 and 27 - surely thats the natural order of things. ( unless they have SNs of course }.

I am not saying parents cant be as close to or love them as much when theyre adults - of course they can and do - but when a parent has raised and nurtered kids for getting on 20 years I think the parent is entitled to 'shift' somewhat to a new or existing adult relationship ( but not exclusively or to the detriment of other relationships ).

As for 'owning half the house' with him - I made that comment as one of many reasons why I should not be down the pecking order - and not suggesting on its own that holds any water. I dont accept that as one half of a married couple in our own home WHEN THE STEP CHILD IS GROWN UP that I am 'entitled' to any less of DHs time.

'My' point about having children of my own was my defence to what you threw into the arena - you specified S/mums with no children of their own can be selfish and have tantrums or whatever if theyre not getting all the attention.

And the relative newcomer label youre determined to stick on me - wont I'm afraid - a 'newcomer' is a person who's recently come on the scene - whether 'relative' or not to anyone else. I am not a 'newcomer' to this household or relationship who should therefore still take a self sacrificing back seat as you seem to think.
I am entitled as is the OP - to the same common courtesies and respect as anyone else here. Your 'length of service' formula for calculating how much time and respect and even love a person should command - i.e. 'first come ,first served' basis is ridiculous. Should we love our parents more than our children then ? - on the basis 'we loved them first' ? - or love our first child more than our second - as 'they were here first'?
I feel so sorry for the grandchildren in your ideal world 'Colditz' !

Wheres your office by the way ? - that you can make a 'statement of fact' about how DH feels about me and/or his children - as in "he loves them more than he loves you.." - you even go onto 'explain' why I'm not aware of this 'fact' - "he is too scared of your attitude to say so"

Excuse me for butting in - as just the wife into your conclusive findings on my DH and I - but I have a few 'exclusive quotes' from my DH on how he feels (the audacity eh!) :

My DH believes real love is immeasurable. The people he really loves he could not love any more. For example he would tell you he loves his DGD - the apple of his eye - every bit as much as his grown up sons - it is a more 'full on' love at the moment as she is a small child - dependant and needy not to mention adorable. His boys are 6ft plus hairy males so his love for them has evolved from that stage - but not diminished in any way, not one iota.

My DH loves me - infinitely - I am - to quote him - "the love of his life". He believes real love cannot be watered down - his love for me does not dilute his love for his children or vice versa and his love for me while 'different' than for his children is just as strong.

His DGD asked him once that childlike question ( after our wedding ) - 'Do you love me or Suda most ?' - his reply was "I love you both the same". This was relayed to me later - I wasnt present btw before you attribute his reply to DHs morbid fear of me and 'my attitude'.

To get back to the OP ! No I do not think its unreasonable to expect a basic level of consideration and social niceties in your own home - however much your OH loves the other person present.

In a word Ta-ra.
Catch you later !! - see doesnt take much really does it.

Cats mother - very good posts - and Petal - thank you for explaining my use of the term - you know what. very well put and also very good post. You made me think of something else in response to Colditzs general stance really - and it is this.
I would be equally devastated if I found out one of my biological children was going to visit their other biological parent with a view to wantonly (providing they were old enough to know right from wrong obviously ) to cause disruption and even destroy their other parents and partners/step/siblings family lives.

I would be down on them like a ton of bricks - they would get a firm re-cap of the values I raised them with - i.e. consideration and respect for others.

I have no grandchildren, I have children, and Suda, as you made no mention of adults in your post and are posting on a step parenting forum, I assumed you had step children, not step adult offspring.

As for life grinding to a halt when my stepchildren visit - not really, because it's just more children thown into the mix. There is nothing I can't do with 4 children under eight that I can do with 2. Normal life carries on, but in my house, normal life is where the children are the focal point of the household at weekends.

Maybe I am very lucky that all the children are a similar age and that they get on. Their arrival (and the subsequent need to focus on their needs and wish to spend their brief visit with their father) doesn't impact on my time emotions in the same way that small children arriving in a childless household might.

It is difficult to bite your lip when you feel unfairly treated - but my point is, if you are going to consider your own right and need for attention as equal to that of your partner's children, you are going to feel unfairly treated, because you aren't equal.

Step brats may have been used in a tongue in cheek way - but how many step parents here send their own biological children off every other weekend to somewhere where they might, you have suddenly realised, be thought of as 'step brats'?

It's painful to send them anyway, but send them I must. I had just always assumed that grown women in relationships with fathers already knew that children come first. naive, maybe.

Irrespective of whom was staying in my house I would expect my dp/dh to have the common courtesy of telling me when he was going out. It strikes me as extremely odd indeed that both the dp and dsd went out without a word to the OP. For me that would be a real problem.