F1 2024 -Watchalong thread

[Brazilianadventure]

Happy New Year.

Thought I would start the 2024 thread given there is more political intrigue with the FIA.

2 resignations and one person choosing to not renew their contract. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67906883

Plus allegedly another ex-Red Bull employee moving to the FIA. https://x.com/silverarrowsnet/status/1744375322131231089?s=46&t=lJm6-66fq4MtGcwwAsK6Kg

I'm seeing "NO! Michael, NO!!!!" when you mention those headphones.

If someone has them, they'd probably be worth a LOT of money now due to the story behind how they got broken.

@LookItsMeAgain don’t it’s still too painful.😂

I feel your pain. It has completely tainted the sport for me anyway, even more so when the FIA came to the conclusion that the race director was wrong yet they still stand by saying “there’s nothing we can do”, if not them, who?

anyway, I digress…

Back to Mr Horner in the corner 😁

Gosh that was the most quintessentially F1, F1 on speed thing for me. These fuck ups and controversies are all part of it for me.

@ColleenDonaghy I am with LookItsMeAgain that the lack of a fair resolution has tainted the sport.

Sport can be cruel, F1 can be very cruel, but this went way over any sporting line. People make mistakes, how they resolve those mistakes is the measure of a person/organisation.

As an LH fan, I agree with you 100%. But I also wonder what they should’ve done. Taken away the championship from Max after the event? Even I would struggle with that being the right thing, and I can’t stand him.

They should have shared it, imo.

Recognise both LH and MV as champion that year. Seeing as how they fucked them both over.

There would've been no way to do that within the regs - they weren't tied on points for a start!

But that's the very frustrating thing about their conclusion not to do anything 'because of the regs'

The whole mess was exactly because the regs were not followed but made up on the spot by Masi.

Once you've stepped outside the regs, it's very hard to use them as your defence for why you cannot correct your mistake.

No, once a decision has been made outside the regs, that needs to be dealt with on accordance with the regs. Human error happens - rarely with so high a profile or such an obvious consequence! But it happens.

Referees make mistakes sometimes but the match result still stands.

It's the unlapping I don't get in F1. I accept it's part of the craziness, but why is it allowed?

It didn't used to be, trust me it's better that it is. Otherwise you could have four lapped cars between first and second at the restart, so it's much more fun to allow cars to race. It can also artificially create a much bigger gap between cars that were racing which can massively influence results for the lower teams.

Referees make mistakes sometimes but the match result still stands. I guess so - but the fact that they do and it can significantly disadvantage/advantage one side unfairly is exactly why elements such as VAR have massively increased in usage. Because generally every one accepts that human error (from someone not competing) is not a great way for a sport result to be decided.

In F1, though, the decisions are not quite as much 'in real time' as football and there is less excuse for human error. Yes, the decision had to be made quickly but, not split-second quickly. And he really only had two options: allow them all to unlap and then bring the SC in the following lap - or don't. He chose neither and ended up in an indefensible spot.

However, maybe I'm allowing myself to go back to 2021 too much! We have a fresh new season about to start and maybe I should look forwards - not back

That makes sense, I guess there's not a good solution! It just seemed bizarre (to bring up 2021 again) that Hamilton could be a lap behind then come in second.

Hamilton could be a lap behind then come in second.

That's not what happened. Hamilton was winning - he was first. He wasn't a lap down. Then behind him on the track were five cars who WERE a lap down and then Verstappen who was second. Behind him there were other cars who were also a lap down. e.g. Ricciardo who was directly behind MV but a lap down.

There was 1 lap of the race left.

The rules say that any cars who are a lap down should be allowed to unlap themselves (drive past the other cars and come round the track to join the end of the train) and then the SC will come in the following lap. If that had happened, the race would have finished while it was going on. LH in first, MV in second - all being led by the SC. There would not have been time to get racing again so MV would never have had chance to overtake LH.

As a slightly controversial option, they could have just got racing again with those cars in the way. There is a chance MV could have got past them all - after all, they are duty bound not to try to stop him as they are a lap behind - and overtaken LH in the single lap left. But maybe this wasn't likely - even with his fresh, soft tyres vs LH's old, hard ones.

But they didn't do either. They made a weird decision to only allow the lapped cars between LH and MV to unlap themsleves - screwing Ricciardo over as he had to stay lapped. Plus, they then brought the SC in immediately after the lapped cars had driven by - rather than the following lap, as per the rules.

and - arrrgh! I am back in 2021 again 😂

No, I meant at Imola!

I should have clarified @MercedesLeftWheelNut - I think it just really stuck in my mind because unlapping seems like such an advantage, and that if LH hadn't unlapped at Imola then there would have likely been no question about the championship winner by the last race.

Lol @Merrow , I know you didn't mean that as a gotcha, but it was very well done.

I don't think there's much sense in dwelling on the ifs and buts. The correct results are the ones recorded in the record books. Lewis arguably should have won 2021 but Massa was arguably more deserving in 2008, so that shakes out that seven for Lewis is about right. Loads of championships could be argued as having gone to the wrong person (and working down the levels, wins, podiums, points etc). But over a career most of them seem to end up about right in the overall stats. And as @Merrow has pointed out we tend to dwell on the last day but borderline calls happen all year long and each race counts equally (thank Christ).

Although Fernando being eight points from five (I think that's right) is painful!

Just enjoy the chaos.

That's true! Unlapping is a hard one because it does give such an advantage to those who are a lap down. Mostly, this doesn't seem to matter because they are still into the late positions after the unlap but Imola is a great example of how - yet again - decisions made off track impact results on track.

At least when decisions follows the reg, teams have had a chance to input into the theory of them ahead of time.

Massa 2008 was heartbreaking to watch, no? Those few seconds when he believed he'd done it, only for it to slip away again. And then to learn that the points from one of the races had been manipulated by a deliberate crash and his championship bid was just collateral damage Alonso is a great driver but from then on, he has always been a little bit tainted to me - because it seems so unlikely he didn't know anything about it.

And, of course, that leads us back to the Piquet family...

Just enjoy the chaos.

Maybe you're right - but then, if we did that, what would there be for us to chat over

I think history has overlooked just how well Massa drove that year as well, the team and reliability let him down over and over again. I remember us commenting it seemed like both competitors were trying to lose rather than win the championship (Hamilton had a number of driver errors, which was surprising at the time but in retrospect he was still pretty inexperienced in the grand scheme of things).

It was his last truly great year, I think.

Then he had the accident - and did very well to come back from it, but by 2010 Ferrari had him firmly in the No 2 spot and I think this beat him down.

A shame, because he was not only a good driver, at least 'deserving' of 1 WDC, but he also seems like such a nice guy.

@MercedesLeftWheelNut I agree they should have shared the title. It was the only fair outcome.

In 2008 remember in Spa Lewis won but was given a 25 second penalty for breaking a rule that didn’t exist. The rule only added to the rule book after the race had finished. I also remember Lewis and Massa in Silverstone 2008 the difference in class was evident. I feel sorry for Massa but Lewis won against the stewards.

@MercedesLeftWheelNut - you wrote "And, of course, that leads us back to the Piquet family..."

Which leads us back to the RBR Garage and sure there we are, back at the start of the thread again 😎

...and the countdown to Thursday's RBR car unveiling and whether or not a certain Mr Horner will still be there by then.

If he's right and the relatively stable technical rules means that many other teams will be more competitive in 2024 - what a season it might be! I'd love the race results to be a bit more of an unknown and to see some of the other teams really be in with a winning chance.

Is this the year to see the Maclaren and Aston Martin promising forms of last year, really come good? Have Ferrari finally managed to get out of their own way and start to be regular winners again? Will I ever see another Williams winner again?