‘Mummy, why do all of the runners have black skin?’

[MoiraRoseIsMyQueen]

So, my 5-year-old has just asked this question while watching the 100m heats, and I’m struggling to answer! Does anyone have any advice on how to respond, without making generalisations or being racist? I am so sorry if I sound ignorant but I said ‘because people from Africa tend to be very good at running because of their genetics’ - and then thought that is probably not a good answer. Help!

@bunnybuggs people always say that but if you don't know a sport exists, doesn't cost much to take part in and is nearby - how do you know to try it?

I have a nephew - black - who has taken part in what are regarded niche team sports in the UK. He only know to look for them because I mentioned trying out such sports.

@jskei

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Is it not possible to allow for any good faith and trust these days and take people at face value?

What you are accusing is offensive when no offence was initially intended. Even if this is a hypothetical question is it nevertheless valid.

We need more understanding not antagonism and hate.

Team GB is a multinational multicultural team and even hosts Japan specifically selected a black athlete although as you see from the Olympics table lead by China and Japan the most able are east Asian. All the Chinese and Japanese medalists are indigenous to their nations. It is fortunate that Team GB can be inclusive to include athletes from all ethnicities and cultural backgrounds being a mixed team but competing under one national Team GB Olympic association.

Just bite the bullet and tell him about slavery.

Tell him about the thousands who died in transit across the Atlantic.

If they weren't fit and healthy they wouldn't have survived.

Not talking about this, that's what's racist.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

So me saying I don't believe OP is more offensive than OP promoting the idea of Eugenics..; which is the study or belief of behaviour or ability based on genetics.

Amazing what disgusts or doesn't disgust some people!

@felulageller

Just bite the bullet and tell him about slavery.

Tell him about the thousands who died in transit across the Atlantic.

If they weren't fit and healthy they wouldn't have survived.

Not talking about this, that's what's racist.

He's five. It can wait.

I think that the issue is that you are asking for a response. That suggests that you want a stock answer that makes the question go away so to speak.

Just be honest with your son and tell him you don't know. If you're honestly bothered about being able to give him an informed answer, tell him you'll get back to him, do the work and conduct some research. Natives by Akala has a very clear explanation.

Asking Mumsnet is conformation of how many people aren't very well informed on this subject so responses here vary far too much from the logical to to absurd.

@jskei. You are throwing the word eugenics round without actually knowing what it means. Here’s a dictionary definition for you

“Eugenics is the practice or advocacy of improving the human species by selectively mating people with specific desirable hereditary traits”

No one is talking about that here. We’re talking about the naturally occurring genetic traits.

Eugenics is not "the study or belief of behaviour or ability based on genetics." It is attempting to "improve" people's genetics via selective breeding and trying to filter "undesirable" traits out of the gene pool. Obviously studying, for example, heritable medical conditions is not eugenics unless you try to prevent people with those conditions from having children. Your comment cheapens what eugenics actually is.

@jskei holy crap, are you kidding?! I posted this in good faith, I’ve found the responses really interesting and informative, and definitely lots of food for thought. Sorry if that doesn’t fit with your world view

[quote jskei]@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

So me saying I don't believe OP is more offensive than OP promoting the idea of Eugenics..; which is the study or belief of behaviour or ability based on genetics.

Amazing what disgusts or doesn't disgust some people![/quote]
Oh no. I was not aware of anyone discussing eugenics as admittedly I have not read every post in this thread nor repeatedly for good measure.

In this context I duly retract my above post in reference to cause upset to you. I did not realise there was any negative underlying construct within this otherwise innocent and interesting thread. It is quite frankly an interesting and timely sporting topic given that the world is a global village despite and it is refreshing to see people from all corners of the globe coming together to celebrate their sport once every few years and do so as one Olympic family. The only colour that matters to these amazing athletes is of course the colour of their personal and national reward. As a lifelong sports enthusiast and in a lower level participatory capacity when I used to compete I saw opponents not the colour of their skin or racial make up! Let’s celebrate sport and not any racial inconsequential nonsense. The Olympics is a time of sharing joy and the stories that make a few athletes stand out for the right reasons. This is their time and obviously it is a year late as the Beijing 2200 Winter Olympics are to take place within months. I suppose there will be mostly athletes of European and East Asian origin at the Winter Olympics but there is no reason why south Asian, Africans and Latin Americans should be excluded apart from lack of exposure to these sports owing to lack of suitable facilities. I say that as someone who used to be amazed at skiing in the Dubai desert of all places with its larger than life indoor ski centre.

Sport is and should be colour blind! It is good for health and more should be inspired as post London 2012 Summer Olympics to give it a go!

Body shape, regardless of ethnicity, is a huge factor. In the UK, rowing about which I know a bit because a friend worked for them, they look for long arms and legs first and foremost, then height, because that's the physique that makes the boat go fastest. I know nothing about other sports but I would guess that every sport has a perfect physical profile.

@Snookie00
OP is talking about and has argued race-based sporting ability. These same arguments echo eugenists and other racial superiority theories.

As another person said ....race and sporting ability is a VERY complicated subject that also includes discrimination since black people in UK & US are generationally denied opportunities in politics, business, acting etc which is a de facto a funnelling of one particular race into areas considered acceptable .. ie sport.

With all the conversations this country has unwillingly been having about race these past few years you'd think alarm bells would start ringing alarm bells when people ONCE AGAIN start pushing ideas on "naturally occurring genetic traits." however innocently.

I was always in the belief that it was evolution.

Not so much in today's multinational world with lots of migration but from when people tended to stay and live where they were born.

So the reason that a lot of African people (Eg Ethiopian) are good at long distance running is because genetically they are pre disposed to be able to walk/run long distances without fluids due to the living conditions.

And yes, that evolution is related to muscle twitch.

It's no different to how those with higher testosterone have higher muscle mass etc.

It ridiculous to say we should ignore all this to avoid saying someone is black.

And whoever ds said the swedes are good at throwing due to being Vikings probably isn't a million miles from the truth!

It's the same way that we have black, brown and white skins. Due to sun exposure.
This was also discussed re covid. Where we have such migration globally we have many black people living in lesser sunnier climes. Therefore they aren't getting the amount of vitamin d needed as black skin needs higher exposure. And this was linked to higher deaths in black people. (It's not the sole reason but it was discussed re the bit in d helping)
And malignant melonoma is more prevalent in white skins.

Genetics and ancestry aren't racist. They are evolutionaryfacts!

I'd have just explained that they trained hard and are the fastest runners in their counties so have come to the Olympics. They aren't all black.. but at such a young age I wouldn't have focused on colour as I'm guessing it was just a general observation

I think you should tell him about slavery and the holocaust immediately.

Infact try to arrange some visits to particularly upsetting places.

@jskei but no one here (i don’t think) including the OP has purported any of the things that you have attributed to this thread. It is not eugenics to talk about how genetics and environment shape us. It is eugenics to advocate breeding certain traits to improve humankind or othering people. It is bad faith to attribute malice in a conversation where there is none.

I watched a documentary on why Jamaica produce so many excellent runners. Have a look for it, I think it was on the BBC.

Surely for all of the Olympic sports it is a combination of genetics, drive, opportunity, access etc. The swimmers have done well this meet and the commentators are suggesting there is an Adam Peaty effect giving belief that there is someone in the camps the swimmers can aspire to, that is like them etc. They have strength and depth in numbers and will presumably get more funding after this games.

For the swimming at the moment the team is not very diverse though and I’ve seen a fair amount of discussion as to why swimming rates at all levels seem to be so different based on ethnicity. It feels largely cultural re lack of opportunity for many people. Athletics seems more accessible than many other sports so possibly has a deeper pool of talent to pick from.

I don’t doubt there are tons of children in more deprived areas with the talent to make the olympics but who never have access to the sports of training opportunities. In general private school alumni are over-represented at the olympics.

From the 100m final yesterday

Gold, silver and bronze went to Jamaica- that is likely funding, Bolt effect, focus on athletics as the national sport etc. 5th place went to a white woman from
Switzerland

@bunnycat101 I don’t doubt there are tons of children in more deprived areas with the talent to make the olympics but who never have access to the sports of training opportunities. In general private school alumni are over-represented at the olympics.
and those children will be of all ethnicities within certain social classes.

It is lack of opportunity and, at the end of the day, resources and money that determines who can use any talent they may have.

Opportunity is definitely a part of it.
Some sports are far more expensive to get started in than others, athletes and football, don't need much in the way of specialist equipment. Which is why poorer nations focus on them.

But to get to the top you need a supportive family behind you. Fatima Witbread grew up in care and eventually went along to an athletics club. She was eventually adopted by her coach when she was 14.

The Diane Modahl sports foundation is doing amazing stuff in the NW to help children from disadvantaged backgrounds (dmsf.org.uk). Aimee Pratt is one of their 'graduates' and if you look at her Instagram she talks about her story. (Aimee competed in the Steeplechase this morning) There are some good people out there trying to help people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

@User5827372728

I think every winner of the men’s 100m race for years and year has been black.

I would tell my 5 year old because each country has their own competitions and the winner then represents the country at the Olympics.

My thoughts on why; that I wouldn’t share:

Black people may rely more on sports scholarships at colleges/unis in places like America so then have to train harder to keep their college places.
Black kids may be pushed more into sports at school than other subjects
Lots more sporting black role models than role models in other sectors

The last white man to win the 100m Olympic final was Allan Wells in 1980.

@Rege

I’d have turned it around a bit and asked if she noticed all the gymnasts, swimmers, cycling, hockey teams etc etc were white and what did she think of that?

Well you'd have been completely wrong. Did you think the Britsh medal winning cyclist's name (Whyte) described his skin colour?