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‘Mummy, why do all of the runners have black skin?’

307 replies

MoiraRoseIsMyQueen · 31/07/2021 12:13

So, my 5-year-old has just asked this question while watching the 100m heats, and I’m struggling to answer! Does anyone have any advice on how to respond, without making generalisations or being racist? I am so sorry if I sound ignorant Confused but I said ‘because people from Africa tend to be very good at running because of their genetics’ - and then thought that is probably not a good answer. Help!

OP posts:
leonpride · 01/08/2021 12:13

@Bythemillpond

Maybe don't say "people from Africa" because the Caribbean runners are not from Africa

I think most are originally through the slave trade.

And going way back to Pangea wasn’t South America /Caribbean Islands linked to Africa.

Well obviously, but it's confusing to a child. Caribbean runners aren't from Africa anymore than you'd describe Americans as English.

Like, it's technically right, but they have roots/origins there. People don't like their cultural heritage to be dismissed.

Meltinthemiddle · 01/08/2021 12:23

Wow what a good question and observation from a 5 year old. Nothing racist in talking about skin colour. Surely we should be able to have open and honest discussions about our differences and genetic backgrounds. I find it fascinating from some racial backgrounds seem to dominate a sport more then others.

Rege · 01/08/2021 19:07

@Intherightplace oh goody! We have one black cyclist in the Olympics finally! After many Olympic events with not a single black person despite there being a number of elite black cyclists. We are still waiting for the first black cyclist in the Tour de France! the event that is well known as an ‘the most white sport in the planet’, Even the Guardian paper exclaimed why is cycling such a white sport? But don’t let that bother you at all we have Kye Whyte this yr, pardon the pun Hmm.

Intherightplace · 01/08/2021 19:10

Alright. I was just remarking that PP seemed to have not noticed a black medal winner

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 01/08/2021 19:29

[quote Rege]@Intherightplace oh goody! We have one black cyclist in the Olympics finally! After many Olympic events with not a single black person despite there being a number of elite black cyclists. We are still waiting for the first black cyclist in the Tour de France! the event that is well known as an ‘the most white sport in the planet’, Even the Guardian paper exclaimed why is cycling such a white sport? But don’t let that bother you at all we have Kye Whyte this yr, pardon the pun Hmm.[/quote]
Are Latin Americans not considered Latin American? I am sure if memory serves correctly - there has been successful Columbian riders in the Tour De France cycling races historically and in recent times amongst all the European cyclists. Chris Froome is British Kenyan and cycled as part of Team GB but lives in Morocco?

www.colombia.co/en/sports/six-incredible-colombian-cyclists-excelling-world-stage/

Plus there is a BAME cyclist in Team GB BMX. I did not know BMX is an Olympic sport but it gives kudos to this type of cycling event too. Maybe more diversity in athletes in BMX than road and track cycling.

TankGirl97 · 01/08/2021 19:37

Not massively useful for discussing with your son, but there was a fascinating documentary a few years ago by Michael Johnson (a black US athlete), called Survival of the Fastest. It discussed how the slaves taken from Africa to Jamaica and other Carribbean islands were the fittest of the fit (up to 90% of those stolen having died on the journey across the Atlantic) so their descendants, himself included, have extremely strong genes. Combined with a culture that pushes sprinting above other sports then that could explain their dominance. It was a fascinating programme.

Rege · 01/08/2021 19:43

Resl I think you’re tagging the wrong person re: Colombians.

Re Cycling ‘There is a BAME cyclist in team GB BMX’
Your argument for BAME in cycling is like playing “Where’s Wally’, if you squint hard enough you can spot him in there.

Intherightplace · 01/08/2021 19:47

It's rather dismissive of their efforts to claim there aren't any though.

Namenic · 01/08/2021 20:13

There are lots of reasons. One is that some countries specialise in certain sports - they have good coaching and training programmes. Also - Different types of bodies can be good at different sports (eg basketball player vs gymnast vs shot putter). And some countries might have more people with certain body types than others.

sadperson16 · 01/08/2021 20:25

Does anybody know how I can watch the Michael Johnson documentary please?

Bowbridge · 01/08/2021 20:28

[quote Rege]@Intherightplace oh goody! We have one black cyclist in the Olympics finally! After many Olympic events with not a single black person despite there being a number of elite black cyclists. We are still waiting for the first black cyclist in the Tour de France! the event that is well known as an ‘the most white sport in the planet’, Even the Guardian paper exclaimed why is cycling such a white sport? But don’t let that bother you at all we have Kye Whyte this yr, pardon the pun Hmm.[/quote]
Nicholas Dlamini rode in the Tour de France representing S Africa this year. A fascinating story:

www.dw.com/en/nicholas-dlamini-from-a-south-african-township-to-the-tour-de-france-and-beyond/a-58165417

In 2019 he was on a training ride on Table Mountain when the park rangers tried to arrest him. They treated him so roughly they broke his arm putting him in their van. Shocking! They said 'he injured himself'.

news.sky.com/story/nicholas-dlamini-sa-cyclist-injured-himself-during-altercation-park-rangers-claim-11896397

inmyslippers · 01/08/2021 20:30

Micheal Johnson documentary was problematic... blah blah thank slave history for making black people good at running. How about they're good at it because they practice and it's embraced by the culture in Jamaica.

https://www.salon.com/2012/07/25/michaeljohnsonssgoldmedallin_ignorance/

AlecTrevelyan006 · 01/08/2021 21:40

I wonder what happened thousands of years ago that made the Chinese evolve into such good table tennis players?

SwanShaped · 01/08/2021 21:56

@AlecTrevelyan006 Exactly.

Justthisonce1 · 01/08/2021 23:33

@NotDavidTennant

But I wouldn't discount genetic factors (as in, the probability of having a particular combination of genetic advantages being higher in some races) working alongside environmental factors to explain the success of black sprinters.

The genetic and enviromental factors almost cetrainly also interact.

For instance, if some subset of the population of Jamaica is naturally predisposed to be good at sprinting then that would bring the country success at that sport, which would increase the populairty of the sport, which would encourage more people to participate, which would make it easier for coaches to identify those people with a predisposition to be a good at sprinting, which would lead to more success and so on.

Nature and nuture rarely act independently.

Ah,

And that genetic predisposition has increased amongst the Jamaican population hugely over the past 30 years and declined among Europeans (not to mention that many Jamaicans have as much if not more European genes than African)?

I'm going to apply this great analysis to the criminal justice system now, and education, and mental health.

Sheesh.

People tripping over themselves to reify race when it's a nonsense that was spun to us by racist Europeans 400 years ago to justify the mass trafficking, kidnapping, sexual torture of adults and children, murder and psychological abuse of more than 12 million people. We're still living and breathing that bollocks?

It's 2021 not 1621.

Justthisonce1 · 01/08/2021 23:38

[quote Snookie00]@jskei. You are throwing the word eugenics round without actually knowing what it means. Here’s a dictionary definition for you

“Eugenics is the practice or advocacy of improving the human species by selectively mating people with specific desirable hereditary traits”

No one is talking about that here. We’re talking about the naturally occurring genetic traits.[/quote]
You think Caribbean people have naturally occurring genetic traits?

We were bred. Plain and simple. I hope we never ever forget.

Justthisonce1 · 01/08/2021 23:40

Swimming is racist, so now we have thebsa.co.uk

Justthisonce1 · 01/08/2021 23:40

As in, nonwhite people face a lot of racism when trying to swim / get involved in swimming in the UK.

Justthisonce1 · 01/08/2021 23:45

Oh lovely - all about front crawl and black people. Seems swimming is not so white after all:

SWIMMING HAS NEVER BEEN “WHITE”: THE ORIGINS OF THE FREESTYLE
Swimming has long been thought of as a “white” sport but right from the conception of the strokes, swimming has been an ethnically diverse sport.

In 1844, the British Swimming Society invited the two men, Wenishkaweabee (Flying Gull) and Sahma (Tobacco), of the Ojibwe people from Canada to swim a race in London. Their swimming style was much different to anything they had ever seen before and much faster too.

Instead of being wowed by their very impressive times, the British press found the swimmers’ movements to be “totally un-European,” and “grotesque.” One paper reported that the Ojibwe men “thrashed the water violently with their arms, like sails of a windmill, and beat downward with their feet, blowing with force and forming grotesque antics.”
So even though the revolutionary style of Flying Gull and Tobacco was considerably faster, it was not copied, and British swimmers continued paddling along in their accustomed manner.

Yet this revolutionary advancement was really centuries old. The original inhabitants of the Americas, West Africa and some Pacific islands had been using a version of front crawl for generations.

It wasn’t until over three decades later when John Arthur Trudgen, a British swimmer, took the prize for the 100-yard race in a major British swimming competition, using a stroke that combined the arm movements of the front crawl with the frog kick of the breaststroke. He had learned to swim the new style in Brazil, and he combined the speed of the front crawl’s arm movements with the accepted breaststroke kicking style. His stroke was less “un-European,” and his time to cover 100 yards was 1 minute and 16 seconds.

Trudgen began teaching others the new arm movement. Even though swimmers continued using the frog kick of the breaststroke, the overhand arm action gave them significantly more speed and power. Using the Trudgen stroke-as it came to be called – swimmers whittled the record for the 100 yards down from about 70 seconds to 60 seconds.

Trudgen’s teachings turned the swimming emphasis from endurance to speed, but the revolution was only half complete.

Find out more head to:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/olympics/longterm/swimming/swimhist.htm
www.swimming.org/sport/history-of-front-crawl/
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-racism-kept-the-worlds-fastest-swim-stroke-out-of-the-pool.amp

badg3r · 02/08/2021 00:06

There is a really good episode of storybots about DNA which explains why people look different on a scientific level. My kids enjoy that one a lot and it basically covers the science part in more detail than most adults will need.

I do actually tell my kids it's rude to comment about how people look when we are out and about but that we can discuss it is much as we like at home. At this age it's a good precursor to them realising it's not acceptable as an adult to ask a stranger in a wheelchair what happened to them, or why someone is a certain colour, or why someone is behaving oddly. Of course they can observe these things and discuss but by five it's old enough to start to know what's best said in private.

PurpleMustang · 02/08/2021 00:17

Christ, how on Earth did a 5 year old with a curious question cause such a debate!! He is gonna love the Paralympics be ready OP

saraclara · 02/08/2021 07:45

but by five it's old enough to start to know what's best said in private.

He did say it in private.

Intherightplace · 02/08/2021 08:28

[[BBC News - Tokyo Olympics: Lamont Marcell Jacobs claims shock 100m gold
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58046880]]

Well that didn't the narrative

CayrolBaaaskin · 02/08/2021 12:06

Lol at this thread- taken a hysterical turn after a five year olds innocent question. Genetic pre disposition is certainly a factor in developing skill in any area including sport and genetics do vary from person to person (with clusters of certain genetics more likely in certain racial groups). It’s complicated to explain to a five year old but I don’t see any reason to start shouting at him about slavery or telling him to check his privilege.

sadperson16 · 02/08/2021 12:12

How stupid.... a bloody 5 year old. What a wonderful age and wonderful minds asking all sorts of crazy and interesting things.
Where is Mrs God being one I recall.
Long may they ask.

I suppose a reply along the lines of "Aren't they fast? " would have done nicely.