‘Mummy, why do all of the runners have black skin?’

[MoiraRoseIsMyQueen]

So, my 5-year-old has just asked this question while watching the 100m heats, and I’m struggling to answer! Does anyone have any advice on how to respond, without making generalisations or being racist? I am so sorry if I sound ignorant but I said ‘because people from Africa tend to be very good at running because of their genetics’ - and then thought that is probably not a good answer. Help!

I’m pretty highly educated! I have a top notch education and I’ve excelled in my scientific field. And I may add, it has nothing to do with my ‘genetics’. 🙄

HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

I do hear what you are saying- genetics plays a big part I agree- but that is often a throw of the dice, and not hereditary.

speakout Yep, it's not as simple as Parent 1 Fast Runner + Parent 2 Fast Runner = Kid Fast Runner, for sure.

Greenlittle I'm very surprised as your approach is entirely unscientific - the normal way is to follow the evidence and not make up your own opinion and doggedly stick to it.

Those denying academic ability is hereditary are cleaving towards a view popular a few decades ago when it was taboo to claim otherwise. We are our genes. Of course nurture and environment play their (large) part, and nature does tend to strive for the average, but all recent studies show that however much you would like it not to be the case, the ability to excel at Maths is just as hereditary as your eye colour, your height, even your propensity to be an alcoholic or develop dementia.

@DottyHarmer

I was mentioning Maths because some posters were spinning a line that athletic prowess is a case of who tries the hardest . This is clearly as idiotic as claiming that every child in a class can achieve level 9 GCSE Maths if only they put their back into it.

Hereditary academic ability is another matter, which some people seek to deny. I think it’s proven to be 50% hereditary, and I would presume that athletic ability (including height/build etc) is matter of a percentage of genes too.

I fully agree. The Disneyesque mantra that you can be anything you want to be if you just try hard enough is extremely damaging. It isn't true , and if people buy into this but still aren't successful, it leaves them devastated at not having "made it" with the added misery of feeling that it must be their own fault for not having tried hard enough. And childhood's can be destroyed by "trying hard" in pursuit of an impossible dream to the exclusion of all else. I have seen this all too often in the fields which 2 of my children are in. Not that I am saying people should give up trying if they don't have the perfect physique or oodles of natural ability, but it's important to have realistic ambitions. My younger DS is good at his sport. Very good in fact. But not future Olympian material. He could spend the next 10 years doing nothing but train but he would never reach that level as he doesn't have the ideal physique and nothing can change that. now he's in his mid teens he has accepted that and his ambition is. That he'd like to stay in the county squad and make the first team when he gets to University. Same with academic stuff. I was ecstatic when my older son got a 7 for his maths GCSE. Maths isn't his strongest subject and that 7 was him reaching the limits ofhis potential by virtue of very, very hard work.Whereas his 9 for music for example was achieved with minimal effort as he has lots of natural ability there. I was proud of him for both of course, but I know he could never have got a 9 for maths and the 7 was a huge achievement. We should all encourage our children to work hard to achieve their potential but we need to be realistic about what that is. Hard work will almost always get you further along any path than someone who doesn't try, but it just can't take everyone to the very top.

It’s a difficult one, @MrsAvocet . I was always a bit at the posters around the dcs’ primary school, proclaiming “You can be anything!!!!” and showing astronauts, X-Factor winners and footballers. No mention of dedication or any innate talent. Just “wanting it” was enough. Of course you shouldn’t crap on someone’s dreams, but there was a definite “stickers for all” ethos which I felt leant too far in the other direction.

@speakout

Academic ability is complex. But not massively tied to heredity. Otherwise generations of academics would produce super clever offspiring- which they don't. Academics are just as likely to produce a child of average intelligence as a parents of challenged ability. A regression towards the mean. Academic parents do have the resources to provide a more stimulating environment to raise a child, plus money to pay for a better social/housing/community/school/ extra curricular environment, plus pass on can do/esteem attitude, meaning that a a child of average intelligence will thrive. A child born in less fortunate conditions is no less intelligent but far less likely to achieve.

You could argue this is the same for sporting ability.

While elite sportspeople often produce children who are good at sport very few are as successful as them. One example I can think of is Ian Wright. He has sons who are footballers but you can argue they aren't as successful and so as talented as him. In fact the son you would regard as the most successful doesn't share any genes with him.

This thread has moved on a bit but too all those pointing out that there’s a black gymnast, black cyclist etc in response to my previous post, I’m sure all the runners aren’t black either, lots of white runners too. The point of the OP though is that the MAJORITY of runners, seemed to be black. So it will make sense to turn the question around and ask the dc whether they noticed the majority of gymnasts, cyclists (put in name of whatever sport you like) were white and what they thought about it.

but all recent studies show that however much you would like it not to be the case, the ability to excel at Maths is just as hereditary as your eye colour, your height, even your propensity to be an alcoholic or develop dementia.
That is just rubbish.
If we carry your idea forward then all mathematic profesors have children who are maths gurus- it is simply not the case.

I’m pretty highly educated! I have a top notch education and I’ve excelled in my scientific field. And I may add, it has nothing to do with my ‘genetics’.

Of course it boody does! Just think of an extreme case: if you had an extra copy of chromosome 21 then you would have had Down's sydrome and certainly wouldn't have excelled at your field.

And that's just one gentic variant that has really obvious effects and has been well studied. Some members of my family have been found to have a genetic variation (a copy number variant) that leads to learning difficulties in many people that have it. This variant was only discovered within the last couple of decades, so anyone who had it before then (or anyone who has it now but hasn't had it identified) would simply have been considered to be a bit dim and lacking in academic ability.

There are certainly many more of these gentic variants lurking undiscovered in the human genome that lower academic ability and it's inconceivable that there aren't also some that enhance academic ability (but these don't cause people any problems so they rarely get investigated).

If you're academically succesful than thank fate that you ended up with a god draw from the genetic lottery.

@RedMarauder On Ian Wright, David Beckham also comes to mind. 3 sons all reasonably okay at football but none with his talent. Even he said he’s heartbroken none of them are even interested. Magic Johnson’s son is another and last but not the least, George Linekar, Gary’s son is terrible at football.

I think people are defensive and trying to ignore the genetics evidence because it seems to be taking away their agency and minimising the work and effort they put in. This isn't the case - you're born with a maximum genetic potential at certain activities, like running or maths or achieving a science degree, but you still have to train (whether it's muscles or brain) to reach that potential. There's no shame in admitting that we don't all have the same potential.

[quote Rege]@RedMarauder On Ian Wright, David Beckham also comes to mind. 3 sons all reasonably okay at football but none with his talent. Even he said he’s heartbroken none of them are even interested. Magic Johnson’s son is another and last but not the least, George Linekar, Gary’s son is terrible at football.[/quote]
Arguably Kasper Peter Schmeichel is a very talented football goalkeeper but his father Peter is probably best ever goalkeeper! Possibly one of the best footballers but no one will pick a goalkeeper as man of the match even though he was capable of saving penalties and turning counter attacks from one goal to the next through his rapid throwing distribution. Of course this is dependent on having good attacking players.

"Does your daughter ask this type of question when she sees all white people playing sports or on TV in general?" drag that unwoke 5-year-old!

Matthew Said constantly promotes the message that "it's just hard work and opportunity:" that determines champions. This annoys me because obviously some people have huge genetic advantage (at sport or music and probably math or MFL, too). Silly to think otherwise.

On children told not to ask questions about skin colour - the early years curriculum states:

Birth to three – babies, toddlers and
young children will be learning to:
Notice and ask questions about differences, such as skin colour, types of hair, gender, special needs and disabilities, religion and so on.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007446/6.7534_DfE_Development_Matters_Report_and_illustrations_web__2_.pdf

Talking about genetics, inheritance of intelligence etc is NOT bigoted or eugenics unless you attach a value judgement to it. I inherited my disability from my dad who - along with one of his sisters - inherited it from his. That's not eugenics unless you're suggesting we shouldn't have kids or are inferior because of it

While elite sportspeople often produce children who are good at sport very few are as successful as them
True. Regression to the mean makes sense in hereditary terms, but I also think there are other factors. I feel sorry for any child of a super successful parent who doesn't share the same passion. And even if they do, the additional expectation must make things difficult. One of my children has competed against the child of a former world leading athelete in their sport. The child is talented, that much is obvious, but I will be very suprised if they emulate their parent's success. I don't have any idea whether it is because they don't really want to do it or whether it's other people's attitudes etc but they don't look at ease when they compete at at all. Having the weight of expectation on your shoulders must be very tough for a youngster. It's hard to describe and I don't want to give specific info but it's like their heart isn't in it. Whilst they have a lot of talent, access to the best equipment and training I think that being a star's child isn't all positive at all. I hear them referred to as "so and so's child" far more often than anyone uses their own name - the pressure must be intense.

@speakout you really need to do some reading about this.

Of course if I am good at languages my dcs will not necessarily be simultaneous translators BUT they will have genetic ability to spot patterns etc, and probably also be pretty hot at cryptic crosswords.

I am horribly uncoordinated. I can’t do an aerobics class or even the birdie song- I am always going the wrong way. Ds also has two left feet and two left hands come to that. If he had been adopted at birth he would still have been a clumsy oaf . If Usain bolt had adopted him he would not have miraculously been able to win the 100m because of parental input.

@Snookie00

"Excellent point. My kids take part in sports which are very “white” where the predominance of white participants is almost entirely down to social, cultural and financial factors rather than physiological differences. White people are not genetically better sailors or rowers"

My oldest was about twelve at a large sporting meet and observed: "Mum there's more red-headed people here than black people". I used to ask other parents and coaches about this and also the possibility of outreach to BAME, but they had never considered it, were shocked at hearing the word "black" and slightly offended that their club could be viewed as non-inclusive.

It's a great question along with things like' Why do man ballet dancers have big bottoms?'
A 5 year old us not racist F F S.

[quote CinnamonJellyBeans]@Snookie00

"Excellent point. My kids take part in sports which are very “white” where the predominance of white participants is almost entirely down to social, cultural and financial factors rather than physiological differences. White people are not genetically better sailors or rowers"

My oldest was about twelve at a large sporting meet and observed: "Mum there's more red-headed people here than black people". I used to ask other parents and coaches about this and also the possibility of outreach to BAME, but they had never considered it, were shocked at hearing the word "black" and slightly offended that their club could be viewed as non-inclusive.[/quote]
could it possibly be due to the fact (as the ONS will show that 3% of the UK population are black and the total BAME is around 20% - even though certain areas like London and Birmingham skew those percentages) that the organisation reflects the makeup of the locality and those that have an interest in those particular recruits.

I meant pursuits not recruits

Because we're all different? People have different skin colours and it just happens that the runners all have the same skin colour. What's with over complicating things a for a 5 year old.

@bunnybuggs

Yes. Taking into account the ethnic profile of the surrounding area, the organisation does NOT reflect the makeup of the locality.

I'm very interested in your assertion that the sporting club members are composed of "those that have an interest in those particular pursuits". So if this indeed the case, why should it be that in my local sporting club white children have a particular interest in running round a track, whereas BAME children do not? Please explain.