NOW CLOSED: Talk to Unum about "The Right Time to Talk About a Back Up Plan" - you could win a £250 Amazon voucher

[AnnMumsnet]

Following on from the challenge Unum set MNers earlier this year we've now been asked by them to ask your opinions on "The Right Time to Talk about a Back Up Plan".

A Back Up Plan is all about knowing what you'd be entitled to from:

a) your employer
b) any protection policies you have and/or
c) the state (existing benefits you may receive and also any you'd be entitled to due to the change in circumstance)

... should you or your partner be unexpectedly unable to do paid work due to illness or injury.

Unum say "Most of us manage to get by on our monthly wage with some savings for a rainy day, but what would you do if you became ill or were injured and had to stay off work for a long period of time? We know it might be a bit daunting to think about this. But we want to get Mumsnetters talking about Back Up Plans, like income protection - and how and when is the best time to ask about this and start to put something into place".

Unum have produced a guide for helping create a Back Up Plan - please take a few minutes to look at the information on this from Unum and let us know what you think.

~ Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?
~ At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you - or would you - raise it at an appraisal?
~ Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick? What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?
~ What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
~ If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
~ If you're an employer yourself what do you think about this?

For more information on Unum please click here
We have some MN bloggers working on this too and you can read their blogs here and here

Any other comments welcome. If you have questions for Unum please visit twitter.com/askunum

Everyone who adds their comments and experiences to this thread will be entered into a prize draw where one winner will get a £250 Amazon voucher.

Thanks and good luck
MNHQ

~ Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?
No
~ At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you
or would you - raise it at an appraisal? That's why I'm in a union.
~ Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick?

Vaguely

What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?

No idea. Find out about it by trawling through a mess of paperwork.

~ What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
None
~ If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
N/A
~ If you're an employer yourself what do you think about this?

N/A

But there is a very interesting discussion going on about a private company and government influence.

Some more feedback from Unum for you: "Thank you for your comments so far, we'd like to set the record straight about a few of things mentioned on this thread. Unum has been established in the UK for more than 40 years and insures almost half of the FTSE 100. We specialise in financial protection - Income Protection, life insurance and critical illness - sold exclusively to employers to protect their employers. We have never sold private medical insurance and have nothing whatsoever to do with NHS reforms. The reality is that - especially for those in the 'squeezed middle', earning £25-50,000 - if you needed to rely on state benefits if you were off work through illness or injury, these would represent a significant drop in salary for a lot of people, Income Protection provides a safety net for employees in this situation".

Heh heh.

I love a narrow denial.

Note UNUM do not state they have nothing to do with welfare reforms.

And in fact if they did, I would be forced to mention:
? the Tories hiring John LoCascio, Unum vice-president to advise on changing incapacity benefit changes in the 1990s
? conferences Unum have attended with members of the DWP
? the UnumProvident Centre for Psychosocial and Disability Research at Cardiff University, which was then commissioned by the DWP to produce material now being (mis)used to promote the idea that work is universally good for sick people.
? the revolving door between Unum, the DWP and the above centre.

Oh look, I did mention them. Whoops!

Orange Kipper, I have no particular axe to grind and maybe I'm being naive, but wouldn't you expect an organisation that provides employee benefit type stuff to input into changes / proposals etc that might be in the offing?

I work for a charity and we often contribute to government consultation processes on things that are within our remit, we've even had meetings with Govt ministers & provided aspect of research we've conducted to Govt departments - I don't think that makes our organisation "in league" with any Govt - it is just part of life in a democratic country, isn't it?

In fact, gosh that's an interesting House of Commons publication you've prompted me to find.

Supplementary memorandum submitted by UnumProvident following the publication of the Welfare Reform Green Paper, 2006
"1. UnumProvident is pleased that the Incapacity Benefit (IB) system is being considered for reform, for indeed it was at our 2005 Beginnings event that the Green Paper was proposed."

It depends who's in the driving seat and where they're going, PostBellumBugsy.

There'll always be some interchange, and it can be beneficial. But there comes a point were it's clear the the people involved in the structure are benefitting more than the people the structure was set up to support.

The problems with consultancy from vested interests and a revolving door for personnel are also well known in defence (BAe especially), finance (GoldmanSachs in the US) and are now happening with the privatisation of decision-making and admin in the NHS (KPMG).

...more than the people the structure was supposedly set up to support.

Postbellum: Now see talking is cheap, unlike health insurance which is bloody expensive. Talking can be good as we ned an open debate. Talking behind closed doors helping to reform a system that you have a bvested interest in seeing dismantled is just a wee bit undemocratic and downright against the public interest as the public were never made aware of the context for these changes. Oh sure they are all about "austerity" except when the AMERICAN not british cel of UNUM came over to speak to all these government ministers and civil servants WE WERE NOT IN THE MESS WE ARE IN NOW! So frankly no nothing to do with this present problem.

Mn towers kindly stop talking on behalf of UNUM I don't care how much they pay you or how big and clever you think you are being, but if UNUM want something they can come and speak for themselves. You should not be their spokes people, you will not be the ones who adjudicate on claims or make decisions about how they are operating their business, so take the money if you must but be so kind as stop them using you as a shield it discredits you more than them.

One more thing before this fit of rage passes, did you know, (Oh Look it's Michael Cain voice again") that many former health ministers, cabinet ministers and top civil servants of whom the sort that were having these cosy little fireside chats that postbellum sees no harm in, have gone on to receive paid board memberships, jobs, head of the unit in Cardiff now, was the senior civil servant in charge of social security bacj whislt these chats were going on. Now Post are you starting to feel a little more uncomfortable, our dear leaders and top civil servants holding talks with a company who see no linkage to health insurance, income protection, and disability benefits with the reduction of the NHS, surely the worst bit of business acumen I have seen for a long time. Free NHS that covers all need, democratically controlled by us the people, in our own locality save really cut off bits of the country. If that remained in force with a decent safety net of welfare payments they would have to go and peddle their wares some where less lucrative.

Orange we got them on the run, well done to you my friend.

Orange & Leith - I'm afraid you've both lost me completely. I bow to your intellectual superiority and am glad that you both have the wit to question whatever it is you are questioning! PBB, slopes off wishing she were less thick.......

Sorry PBB, please come back we are probably enraged and very frightened, well I am. But I can be calm and if I can I would like to help you understand. How ever politics and money make for a very complex story

Mn do I win the voucher, I would split it with Orange?

Sorry, PBB, didn't mean to be obscure.

Unum is in competition with the welfare state.

While people pay National Insurance and get adequate state support during sickness, unemployment and retirement, they are less likely to shell out for the luxury of extra private insurance for those things.

The less support the state provides, the more insurance Unum hopes to sell.

So of course Unum will be very happy to advise governments how to reduce state support.

The "revolving door" means that, for example, someone could work for a bank and then be paid by government for advising on how to regulate the banks, and then go back to working for a bank.

The question is, in whose interests are they really working at any point? They know that, if the advice they give the government benefits the banking industry (but not the general public), they stand a good chance of being offered a very well paid job by a grateful bank. And if they give advice which displeases the banks they may never be hired by that industry again.

This is a complaint that was sent by The Black Triangle Campaign to the UK Office of Fair Trade regarding Unum...

The FSA received the same complaint, could this be why Unum stopped marketing it's private policies?

I'd suggest reading it, alongside the links in it before giving Unum 1 penny for anything, never mind Income Protection Insurance.

I write to you as the Scottish Representative of the Office of Fair Trading on behalf of the Edinburgh based disability rights campaign group Black Triangle which has serious concerns regarding the fairness, (and legality), of Unum Insurance?s involvement in the UK income protection, (disability), insurance market when they have been advising the UK Government, (via the DWP), on welfare reforms since 1994 to the present time.

For reference to this please check out the following pages on our website ?

Marketing Campaign

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/08/21/unum-unveils-consumer-campaign/

This also mentions the Guardian/Unum tie up, with The Guardian being one of the only newspapers that was campaigning against Atos?s involvement in the benefits assessment programme, (until the above mentioned Unum tie up that is).

Marketing Master Class for it?s Financial Advisors

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/09/15/unums-game-plan/

This page references what Unum describe as ?A Master Class? to their Financial Advisors?, (Salesmen), in which they advise them that the current welfare reforms, (that they advised on), are something that can be used as a ?sales tool? for want of a better description.

Atos ? A Conflict of Interests?

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/10/01/unum-the-dwp-conflicts-of-interest-insider-trading/

An ?editorial? type article outlining Black Triangle?s general concerns re Unum?s involvement in the income protection, (disability), insurance market.

Denies Profiting from Welfare Reforms

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/10/07/insurance-giant-denies-welfare-reform-will-boost-its-profits/

Unum?s denial to John Pring, (of www.disabilitynewsservice.com), that they are profiting from the current welfare reforms with Black Triangle?s view being, (on the evidence that we have), that Unum?s involvement as advisors to the DWP was grossly understated by the Unum executives to John?s enquiries.

See Also ? Atos : Unum Connections

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/09/05/the-uk-a-country-of-second-chances/

Mike O?Donnell, Chief Medical Officer of Atos Healthcare.

Check out who the Chief Financial Officer of Unum Insurance UK is too.

And ?

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/08/23/important-read-circulate/

www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatosveterans.html

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/09/07/new-labour-the-market-state-and-the-end-of-welfare/

BBC Has internal Unum documents claiming that they are influencing UK Government policy.

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/08/20/bbc-10pm-news-6th-november-2007-transcript-news-article-unum/

And the attached report by Mo Stewart which was distributed to 360 members of The House of Lords prior to the 2nd reading of the Welfare Reform bill and referenced during the debate by several of them.

For information regarding the Unum scandal in the US may I suggest the book ?Insult to Injury, Insurance, Fraud & the Business of Bad Faith that was recommended to me by Prof Dan Feldman, (Professor of Law, Yale University), who was the special prosecutor of the New York DA?s office which negotiated the legal settlement on behalf of 38 US states with Unum as the definitive general description of what went on ?

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/09/03/coming-to-the-uk-soon-insult-to-injury-insurance-fraud-the-big-business-of-bad-faith/

If you understand how Atos is operating in the UK, you only have to read the first 30 pages of this book to see that they are operating in exactly the same way as Unum was in the US prior to them being prosecuted, fined, ordered to pay $100?s of millions in compensation and reopen over 300,000 claims

Black Triangle have serious and genuine concerns regarding Unum Insurance?s position in the UK income protection insurance market with all the evidence that we have seen indicating that this has been a long term plan that has included infiltrating the DWP to enter the UK market for their products.

We request that the Office of Fair Trading use the considerable powers it has to investigate this matter fully and take any necessary action.

Would like to have the choice to make a back up plan, but having been chronically ill since birth I can't get insurance.

dh has some protection at work and we are just looking into critical illness/life, some horrible stories on here.

wouldn't touch unum - in May this year, Unum?s then medical officer Prof Michael O?Donnell jumped ship to become chief medical officer at Atos

A-hem

Some great links on this thread, in previous pages too.

everyone, I'm learning a lot from this - particularly about the US legal action against Unum.

Orange if you get the voucher you gonna share with me?

Ha, don't imagine that eventuality will arise, Leith.

But if I did I was planning to give it to someone on this thread who has been let down by their insurance - and I know will be hit by the disability benefit cuts as well.

She's due something from insurance industry.

Leithlurker - just to clarify - I've posted for Unum because we at the towers normally prefer to do it this way round.

Ann I am sorry if I gave offence to you, very few of these "Talk about" features had had two statements that have been added to answer those who were asked to talk in the first place. I have seen clarification on products, I have seen further information on products. Perhaps posted by you I do not honestly remember, certainly someone from MN towers.

This was always going to be controversial I would have hoped that those in MN towers who decide these things understood that from the off, as I said up thread sn boards, politics, boards, AIBU boards have not been short of references to UNUM, ATOS, DWP, and disability benefits. With that kind of context I would have thought that seeing as MN has promoted and fostered a culture of people posting honest and sometimes difficult questions that it was always going to attract people like me, orange, holmy, et al. Whilst again I apologise for maybe being to harsh in my tone towards you, it is however legitimate to reflect that the perception of UNUM being a figure in the shadows leaving MN to make the statements on their behalf is certainly not accurate but it could have been completely avoided by MN by not posting their words in your name as it were.

I also notice the thread is not on the active chat page, may I ask why?

Another apology to you Ann, for some reason this thread is at the bottom of my active list not at the top as normal. So it is here and viewable to all but numpties like me.

We have no back up plan except dont spendvany money. I gave up work for 4 years when i hadvkids. Thevreality was 8 yearsvago i expected tomeasily return to a well paid job when i wanted, wich i did. Fast forward to today no jobs available, food expensive, fuel for both heating and cars expensive , wages going down. How can we have a back up plan?....

I work freelance and DP is self employed so we have no employer benefits.

I have money put aside for emergency. Enough to support me and my dc for about 6 months to a year. I wouldn't take state benefits unless desperate, as there's a sadly limited pool of money and plenty of people in real need.

I would not get insurance. I prefer to self insure as I know I will pay out if necessary :).

~ Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?
I am a SAHM, so me, no, DH has a decent package at work.
~ At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you - or would you - raise it at an appraisal?
I think his is a standard work package. DH took out some extra insurance when I got pregnant.
~ Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick?
What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?
I think it would be enough to pay the basic bills. We are also always saving for a rainy day. Or we'd stay with family, if we had to.
~ What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
DH is in a relatively safe industry. He should be able to find work reasonably easily, especially as we are very willing to move pretty much anywhere.
~ If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
N/a
~ If you're an employer yourself what do you think about this?
N/a

Pretty sure my employer wouldn't go for this, but this definitely has reminded me to check out all the sickness policies. We'd do alright on one income, but with absolutely no luxuries and probably have to downsize the car too.

DH has insurance that would pay out in the event of an injury or God forbid death, it is quite a lot of our monthly expenditure and he is forever mulling over whether it is something we need to have. I am adamant that it is and refuse to let him even consider cancelling it.
Not much of a back up plan but it is something1