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[AnnMumsnet]

Following on from the challenge Unum set MNers earlier this year we've now been asked by them to ask your opinions on "The Right Time to Talk about a Back Up Plan".

A Back Up Plan is all about knowing what you'd be entitled to from:

a) your employer
b) any protection policies you have and/or
c) the state (existing benefits you may receive and also any you'd be entitled to due to the change in circumstance)

... should you or your partner be unexpectedly unable to do paid work due to illness or injury.

Unum say "Most of us manage to get by on our monthly wage with some savings for a rainy day, but what would you do if you became ill or were injured and had to stay off work for a long period of time? We know it might be a bit daunting to think about this. But we want to get Mumsnetters talking about Back Up Plans, like income protection - and how and when is the best time to ask about this and start to put something into place".

Unum have produced a guide for helping create a Back Up Plan - please take a few minutes to look at the information on this from Unum and let us know what you think.

~ Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?
~ At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you - or would you - raise it at an appraisal?
~ Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick? What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?
~ What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
~ If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
~ If you're an employer yourself what do you think about this?

For more information on Unum please click here
We have some MN bloggers working on this too and you can read their blogs here and here

Any other comments welcome. If you have questions for Unum please visit twitter.com/askunum

Everyone who adds their comments and experiences to this thread will be entered into a prize draw where one winner will get a £250 Amazon voucher.

Thanks and good luck
MNHQ

DH employed, I am self employed. We self cover for death and long term sickness and injury. DH does have cover at his workplace, but as I needed the cover anyway and as you can't always trust someome else to pay up under their cover we decided we'd both be on my policy. This way we should be entitled to money from somewhere no matter what. We have also used entitled to.com to Suss out what our situation would be if DH was made redundant as we moved into somewhere that pushed us a little more than our last house and wanted to be sure we could tide ourselves over for a year if DH lost his job.
We are fortunate in that we have no debts and we rent, so if he did lose his job we would be less worried about something big going wrong with the house etc, however we'd have this cover no matter what our circumstances, in fact we've prioritised it over pension payments as it's important to me that if something went badly wrong we could at least keep our home stable and the same for the kids for as long as possible.

I have had this conversation with my employer on numerous occasions as cover was promised at my interview and several years on has yet to materialise. Where I live fortunately the state helps out a little more - if I die for example, my husband will receive an immiediate payment of 3 months salary from the state. Not a huge amount, but enough to reduce the immediate worry. In case of sick leave I remain on full pay for up to 11 months - we pay for this in social security contributions of course - but I would much rather pay social secirutiy and have a real safety net than pay a private company and not be able to trust them.

Despite, or possibly because of, having worked in insurance I don't trust insurance companies at all. If there is a way out of paying up they will find it, especially when it comes to less tangible things like health / sickness / life. What people have to remember before signing up to insurance policies is that these companies are in it to make a profit, and make a profit they do.

There are of course times when they take a pounding - 9/11, the storms of 1987 etc etc, but the vast majority of the time the ones who end up paying are the customers, either by having pay outs refused or their premiums raised to ridiculous levels.

I don't know anything about Unum or about their reputation. But I would be very surprised if they were any more ethical than any of the big names.

We are already in the situation where you need a back up plan - and have been in it so long all our savings have run out.

We're currently discussing this as my maternity is due to finish early next year and I don't want to return to full time work but we need more than one income. My partner is self employed so that's always been a worry when considering mortgage payments. We now need to find out our options as returning to where I worked will cost me more in petrol and childcare than I earn, DD is not going to his parents (but that's another thread...) and is it fair to expect my parents to have her? Lots to discuss and it puts me off just thinking about it all!!

I work for the public sector, so have sickness benefit as part of my contract. I can't imagine bringing it up with an emplyer, but if I worked for the private sector and negotiated salary I imagine I would have to be mroe hard faced about it.

We met with an IFA prior to buying our first house, and prior to selling and getting a second. We looked at what we were entitled to, and got income protection accordingly. I cannot recall what we organised now, but it covered the mortgage if we were ill.

I don't think we got protection for redundancy - unlikely in my work, although unlikely rather than unheard of pre recession. That wouldn't make me change my income protection though.

Now what I really need to do, is to get a will.

We shouldn't need to think,of a back up plan. This is why we pay tax to a government that has such a huge welfare bill.

We are both lucky in our benefits package from work.
I wouldn't discuss mine at an appraisal, as it is a standard package, and not up for discussion, afaik.
DH has a flexi package, so we look at that most Junes when it is open for change.
We also tend to review things at "life changing moments" - which at the moment seem to be happening every 2 yrs - job change '04, wedding '07, house purchase '07, baby '09, baby '11.

My DP has had a good discussion with his workplace about long term sick as as a Manger himself he has been involved with a member of his team who has been on long term sick so we have seen it first hand. I am not currently working and I guess one option would be for me to go back to work full time if we needed me too as well as benefits. I have worked a lot for charitable organizations and I have never been able to negotiate benefits at work they have always been dictated and I believe that we should be pushing for good benefits but I don't think they should be different for each individual although with every sickness there comes individual tailoring but overall I think across an organisation it should be the same.
I haven't really though currently about how much we would get although I know it wouldn't be a great deal I know that under the circumstances we would have to make it work and I don't wont to worry about something that might or could happen until we reached that point. The government gateway is a great resource of a website and that would be my first call as to what we would get, it's a site I have used a lot for other things.
I don't think the recession has changed my views on it at all.

~ Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?
I am a SAHM, DPs work makes all benefits very clear and offer a very good package for DP, me and DC even though we aren't married

~ At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you - or would you - raise it at an appraisal?
DP discussed/negotiated when he started at the company and it is reviewed every year as part of the pay rise.
~ Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick? What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?
We would seek advice on that if needs be.
~ What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
None, we have always thought about what ifs
~ If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
? talk to your boss

I have illness insurance which will cover my mortgage but the cost of redundancy insurance was prohibitive.

The company I work for doesn't pay employees who are off sick and no way would they pay for insurance to cover sick pay. The suggestion that they might consider this is quite frankly laughable.

Being self employed i'd have to hassle myself and i haven't got any money anyway. Am just trying to get back to work after baby which is hard enough without trying to get anything other than basic pay. As others have said i think a lot of us are digging into any savings we have left just to keep going. it makes serious illness a real worry but there just isn't any spare money for yet more insurance.

As im.currently a student and a worker I get no protection.
Have spoken to other half about his entitlement before I went on my course , making sure I could afford to do it if anyrhing did happen. Only think the talk happens when your changing something or want to make decisions

I have been made redundant twice in the last 5 years so I always try to think of things objectively and actively take interest in my company's financial position.

My workplace aren't interested in what would happen to it's employees, the evidence is already there with numerous redundancies and recruitment drives. Having this conversation with them would amount to nothing.

I am also not entitled to any benefits at work. We got the standard contractual holidays and maternity leave. Obviously, I wish we did have some kind of tax deductible benefits but the company is looking out for it's pockets, not it's employees.

I have spoken to ACAS before about sick leave/holiday entitlement. They are an invaluable source and free- which is very important.

The recession has meant that no matter how bad a job is, I'm inclined to stay as any job is better than no job.

I work in the public sector and all employees have the same sickness cover which is non-negotiable and purely based on length of service.

However recently as I have got older I have started worrying about developing a longterm chronic illness which might mean I was unable to work for a long period if at all and so decided to take out a personal income protection plan which covers both ill health and redundancy. The premiums are quite high however if I were to become chronically ill I would receive half my salary until I reached retirement age which is quite reassuring. I did use an IFA to choose an appropriate policy although I guess you can never be sure they aren't just recommending the one that pays the best fee.

I also work in the public sector, non negotiatable scheme. We have debt, no savings. Would be up the creek if we had to quit work. No chance of a back up plan here. Would have to sell the house, kids, pets etc.

Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?
No, I haven't but I intend to raise it with my employer and with my Trade Union.

At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you - or would you - raise it at an appraisal?
I am about to return from maternity leave, so this information has come to my attention at a perfect time as I intend to raise it at my back to work meeting.

Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick?
I am aware of what I would be entitled to from my employer in terms of sick pay, but have no idea what I might receive in the event of a long term illness so will now explore this.

What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?
I think that I would receive 3 months on full pay, and then 3 months on half pay, before my salary would cease completely. I should be able to confirm this by looking at my contract or finding the sickness policy on the intranet at work.

What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
It makes me worry about it more as, when funding streams are reduced, it is the one thing that could be decreased quite easily, I think.

If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
I haven't asked, yet.

If you're an employer yourself what do you think about this?
N/A

~ Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?
DH has a really good package and is fully aware of his cover. I work part-time and am less aware of what benefits I would get if off sick long term, but am pretty sure I'd be ok. Better check though.

~ At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you - or would you - raise it at an appraisal?
It's more a get-what-you're-given scenario tbh, not open for negotiation.

~ Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick? What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?
As above, we should be ok.

~ What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
None, but I'm aware that we are lucky to be well covered.

~ If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
NA

~ If you're an employer yourself what do you think about this?
NA

This thread has inspired me to double-check our entitlements and make sure we have adequate cover should the worst happen. Can't be too careful.

What makes me really angry is that when I first started work back in 1980 they explained that I would pay National Insurance, then if I was sick or unemployed I would get benefits, and when I was 60 I would get a pension.

Since then things have been eroded and eroded so that if I am sick or unemployed I am supposed to have a private insurance policy to cover me, and now it looks like I won't get a pension either (when I'm 68). Yet NI is now double what it was when I started work.

yes yes I "get" that there's no money, people living longer blah-de-blah, but if the NI scheme is no longer actually working then it should be dismantled. Basically we are just paying an income tax rate of 32%. Much fairer to just accept that.

I work in an industry where I get 6 months sick on full pay. DH doesn't so we pay into a policy for him. If I'm made redundant it is classed as "voluntary" so I wouldn't be able to claim anything so there is no point in paying for cover.

We also have far too much life insurance because we moved and didn't cancel the old policies when we'd taken out replacements. But since moving I've been dx with cancer and DH has had to start taking tablets for High Blood pressure. So now we won't get new cover and we are stuck. A huge % of our income goes on insurance of one kind or another and although we can no longer afford it we also can't afford to cancel it.

Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?
Yes, I have. Don't have a DP/DH.

~ At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you - or would you - raise it at an appraisal?
Generous benefits package was outlined with job offer. Didn't negotiate, just accepted.

~ Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick? What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?
Have just been off sick, so very aware of what I'm entitled too. Organisation I work for have all policies available on staff intranet. It was easy to check.

~ What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
I feel very grateful to have a job and a good benefits package.

~ If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
N/A

~ If you're an employer yourself what do you think about this?
N/A

Dh and I both work in the public sector and so currently have generous sick pay terms. We do also have income replacement policies which were taken out 16 years ago. They would kick in if we were still unable to work beyond the 12 months covered by our employers. We reviewed this recently and the advice from our IFA was to continue with the policies we have as we would not get anything like such good terms now. I know lots of people who don't have any cover because it's an extra expense that they just can't justify at the moment.

I used to work in a citizens advice bureaux, can't tell you how many folk I saw who came in at the point of losing everything because the thousands of pounds they had paid in to a income protection plan had been a total waste of time as their "insurance" because that is what it is, would not pay out because of the way the policy had been written and so for some reason they fell foul of the policy.

Most common was the fact that the illness was seen to be "not covered" or that the claim had failed technically for some stupid reason like not phoning them straight away, bit difficult if your in a major car crash. So yea go ahead peeps your money your houses, your lives, you spend it on what you like, but trusting a company who were sued in 13 different states in the us for denying claims sounds like buying a lottery ticket to me. Oh and this thing that they tell you they are not the same, sure their not it just happens that they use the exact same rule book for assessing injury which normally ends being called a non injury. To be honest I am a bit ashamed go MN. They need to pay more attention to the SN and politics boards rather than the Aibu boards.

Well, to be honest, Unum wouldn't feature in any of my plans ever.

My back up plan is via my employer.... with Unum. I'm kind of nervous about that now, reading this thread. I felt quite prepared before, but maybe I was being naive.

If it has to be one of us to be off work for an extended period, hopefully it will be me, although with some changes to our lifestyle I think we would manage if it were DH.

~ Have you had this discussion with your workplace? Has your DP/DH?

I am not currently working but DH is and has not. I had this discussion with my employer when I was working.

~ At what point would/did you negotiate your benefits at work - was it when you started, or maybe when you returned to work after maternity leave? Or have you - or would you - raise it at an appraisal?

Whenever needed. In my last job it was discussed at appraisals. DH would be the same if it was needed to be discussed.

~ Have you thought about or considered what benefits you or your family would be entitled to should you have to be off work sick, or if your DP was off sick?
I pretty much know what would happen and how much help we would get. I would still have to go back to work if it was a long period of time.

What do you think you'd get and how would you find out about it?
When I have been sick previously I got 50% and I am not sure about DH

~ What impact does the recession have on your views of this?
It worries me that theres no money spare to help anyone and fewer jobs around if i needed to go back to support the family.

~ If you've successfully asked your employer about this what tips would you pass on?
N/A I used to ask accas
~ If you're an employer yourself what do you think about this?

N/A

Did you know< he says in his best Michael Cain accent, "Did you know" that American Unum as no such thing as nice fluffy union Jack British Unum existed at the time, were invited over to advise the british government about welfare reform as early as the early 90's? Now there's a thing eh, what have we had since the early 90's a reduction of the welfare state particularly benefits but also the NHS. Cutting the level of help so that so little monetary help is available many people are frightened not just of unemployment but also of losing all they worked for. In terms of health well we have just had Lansly's reforms and all those in England must be slightly worried.

But still hay the nice people at Unum who's job it is to sell private health and income protection policies, might have been advising the Major, Blaire, Brown, and now Cameron and clegg governments on something completely different like............................... (Whistles as he backs away quietly)

Oh don't take my word for it do your own reading, start here if you like:blacktrianglecampaign.org/2011/11/08/unum-influence-in-the-uk-continues-to-wreck-havoc/