Theories on how non-verbal dc think?

[MannyMoeAndJack]

I was pondering this today. My ds is 100% non-verbal and shows zero likelihood of ever developing speech. It doesn't seem to worry him! Instead, he communicates by taking people to where he wants to go, by using a few basic photo cards (when promted, rarely spontaneously) and via his body language (to include whingeing, stomping about, yelling, etc). He understands some language, for example, those words/sentences that he has heard countless times over the years and which apply directly to the situation at hand. I think he picks up on certain nouns to cue him in.

So...given a child such as my ds, just how does he think because I seem to think using words! Are my ds's thoughts likely to be a series of images, film-reel style?

My ds clearly calculates things 'on the hoof', for example, if he sees an opportunity (e.g. an exposed tap just begging to be turned on), then he will quickly check over his shoulder to see how likely it is that his fun will be interrupted or hindered in some way, then he will make a swift and determined dash towards the desired object.

He also thinks/plans mischief things in a more leisurely manner too. Then, when he thinks I'm napping, he will seize his moment.

Any theories about what is going through his head???

It's a fascinating subject isn't it?

Have you thought of using PECS with your child. Do you know what it is?

Oh he's been 'using' PECS since nursery, so for over 4yrs but not much progress really. I should add that he has SLD and developmental delay (not so much in a physical sense though!). Regular PECS are beyond his abilities, hence the photo cards.

But yep, fascinating indeed!

manny have you read Lucy Blackman's book Lucy's Story (and she has a chapter in Autism and the Myth of being alone)? She is non verbal (in her 30's) and had no language until her teens. She describes her experience of the world in quite a bit of detail. It totally changed the way I thought of ds1 and really increased my understanding of him (luckily for me ds1 is incredibly similar to her- same responses at the same ages and he seems to be developing in a similar way- he's a bit more feral but they do seem remarkably similar).

Words are just signifiers to make sure that everyone is thinking of the same thing (according to Saussure, Swiss Linguist). So we say 'bicycle', and everyone thinks of an object with 2 wheels, a handlebar & a saddle with 2 pedals. Some Japanese people would say 'Jitensha', but have the same image in their head.

I guess children like your DS just skip the part where they use a code (words) and just think of the objects themselves, because they don't need to make sure they are understanding the same thing as someone else, as they aren't sharing their thoughts with anyone,prior to using the object, IYSWIM. So if your DS can achieve his desired activity/want withoout assistance, he gets on with it. If not, he drags you to the object, or shows you it by using the picture card.

So for example in autism and the myth she describes how in her 20's she realised how much of her life was stimulus -response (this is my words- and very very like ds1). So she describes how she would see McD's and have to go in. Once she realised she didn't want to then she would drag her carer into McD's whilst typing 'don't let me force you into McD's'.

Ds1 has learned to control his impulses a little. He doesn't want to always watch the washing machine, but if it's on he HAS to. So if he doesn't want to he gets me and makes me lock the kitchen door then he can go off and do what he actually wants to do rather than what his body makes him do.

Nicely put |Lou.Manny, PECS shouldn't be beyond him.Used properly it is far easier for your child to understand than using photos and it has the potential to allow him to use pictures in a precise manner that mirrors language.

eg

I want a small red car

I wonder if you have been advised and supported properly by peopel with appropriate PECS expertise and training.
Perhaps not.
[sa]

lou- Lucy descries how when she was little she could read ball, had the word ball (heard) and the object ball but each was entirely separate and made no connection with the other - she didn't realise the sound ball bore any relation to the round object.

I think it's an entirely different way of living and experiencing the world tbh.

DS1 can remember places from when he was 2 but until fairly recently had no concept of yes/no or even that he could do the same things he saw other people doing.

oh and Donna Williams was asked about the difference between people who are non-verbal post age 5 and those who develop language before then and wrote a really insightful reply imo.

I think it's on my other computer- will try to find it.

Interesting ideas here, thanks. It does seem as though my ds has skipped a few stages so perhaps he does think of objects as visual entity and goes from there.

saintly, no I haven't read the book you mention...one for the list!

moondog, my ds has been at a very good special school since Reception. The staff keep working hard with him. He will use his school PECS (most of the time) when they prompt him, so e.g. at snack-time, they expect him to get his biscuit photo-card off his PECS stick and then travel with it to a member of staff, whereupon his biscuit will appear. The school follow this procedure at all transition times. It is probable that my ds won't ever grasp the abstract, schematic format of real PECS so photo cards will do instead. His LDs are very severe.

rather, visual entities

Does he imitate manny?

Ds1 learned aged 7 or 8 - it made such a huge difference to his understanding of the world. That single concept made him considerably less disabled than he had been before.

saintly, that's interesting how Lucy experienced a disconnect between the the sound of 'ball', the written word for 'ball' and the physical ball. Shows some form of compartmentalising I guess.

saintly, no he can't imitate at all. Doesn't even seem to realise that he could IYSWIM! Try as you might, the concept of imitation goes right over his head. He is 7yrs old.

Not being able to imitate, to me, shows the severity of his LDs.

Hmm, I remember reading it, and re-reading it then thinking I just didn't comprehend what she was trying to say because it was all too far removed from my experiences.

Her chapter in autism and the myth of being alone is really interesting because she's reflected a lot on how she experiences the world after writing Lucy's Story. And she came to more understanding about how it was different from those of us who are verbal and have language from an early age. The interesting thing for me is that I hear (from people who have met her) that her behaviour is still very like ds1's (ie feral). Although she has language (albeit not spoken or in the same way that we do) in a way that ds1 doesn't.

If you email me (I think you have my email address??) I could send you the chapter in autism and the myth.

It's weird. DS1 used to scream and scream when we tried to do wood walks. He would stop and refuse to move. I thought he was being difficult. Then Lucy wrote about completely losing her sense of understanding of her body in space underneath trees because of the sunlight and shadows.

And they both hummer old mcdonald at the same age when pissed off.

Manny, sorry to labour the point but PECS isn't meant to prompted-that's the whole point!
Central to it is the notion that if a child wants something enough and the people around him set up a variety of tempting scenarious (not just at snack time-a common occurence) he will be motivated enough to use his PECS card (following the six phases carefully and working at appropriate phase)to request said item.

But PECS is beyond some children.

Saintly, I'd be really interested in the chapter you mentioned. I think it'd be really helpful - would I be able to have a copy too? PLEASE

This is fascinating! My dd1 is currently working in a special needs unit with children (aged 5 - 7) with various levels of verbal communication. She would like to become a SALT - she is 16, so has hard workahead of her. I will ask her to think about this, it is a big question. But actually it was your name I noticed, Mannymoeandjack - the pep boys!

Hmmm, maybe a few, a very few.
They are few and far between.
What we know about the rules governing human behaviour indicates that in the vast majority of case,s when used properly, it is successful.

However, most peopel don't or won't know how to use PECS properly.

course superbunny

email me on nezumi 35 (all one word) at googlemail dot zippididoodah (ignore that bit) com

Done Saintly, thank you

moondog, thanks for labouring the point but my ds has very few, if any, non-food and drink motivators (and certainly no toy motivators) which is why there has been so little progress in the development of his communication. PECS (real, symbolic PECS) is assuredly beyond him. It all sounds so lovely in theory....although I know that PECS does work beautifully for many dc with SN.

stelger, actually I'm a Dickies fan

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTWXqyyBzWA&feature=related

saintly, thanks I will email you...

So, back to the OP. I get Lou's point about words acting as signifiers...but when my ds is cooking up mischief, then is going through his head, given his lack of speech?? How does he think/plan ahead with no words to anchor his thoughts?

what is

When I first began working with non-verbal children, I was amazed at their level of thinking. In particular, the fact that they knew that I was new and tested me just like any other child did. One of them would charge like a baby rhino in one direction and, when I followed, would bolt in the opposite direction and then sit down and laugh at me, knowing full well that I would not be able to get him up til he was good and ready . He found the whole thing hilarious and continued to take advantage of the fact that I was new to him and to the environment. He doesn't do this any more, now we know each other quite well, yet he will do it with new staff. He still plays games with me and make sure I am on my toes but he does it in a lovely affectionate way (most of the time) and it is much more like he is laughing with me. It really opened my eyes to how able they are and just how developed their thinking skills are.

goodness superbunny, you could be talking about my ds!!! Although my ds has SLD, he is not by any means a stupid, non-thinking child. In fact, he can be very cunning indeed...which requires a certain amount of forethought!