Theories on how non-verbal dc think?

[MannyMoeAndJack]

I was pondering this today. My ds is 100% non-verbal and shows zero likelihood of ever developing speech. It doesn't seem to worry him! Instead, he communicates by taking people to where he wants to go, by using a few basic photo cards (when promted, rarely spontaneously) and via his body language (to include whingeing, stomping about, yelling, etc). He understands some language, for example, those words/sentences that he has heard countless times over the years and which apply directly to the situation at hand. I think he picks up on certain nouns to cue him in.

So...given a child such as my ds, just how does he think because I seem to think using words! Are my ds's thoughts likely to be a series of images, film-reel style?

My ds clearly calculates things 'on the hoof', for example, if he sees an opportunity (e.g. an exposed tap just begging to be turned on), then he will quickly check over his shoulder to see how likely it is that his fun will be interrupted or hindered in some way, then he will make a swift and determined dash towards the desired object.

He also thinks/plans mischief things in a more leisurely manner too. Then, when he thinks I'm napping, he will seize his moment.

Any theories about what is going through his head???

Phoenix4725, you are definitely right. But from what I have read on the education boards, he will probably be forced to do phonics. They are not prepared to believe that anything else works.

MannyMoeAndJack, I am fairly intelligent but I can't get my head around all of these broken down sounds of uu ee etc.
Words like "colonel" just don't fit their rules, so they create tons of exceptions to the rules. How they expect 5 year olds to remember all these rules and sounds, is beyond me. None of us learn English by breaking words down like that. Instead we imitate the whole word that we hear.

claig, quite! Phonics flies in the face of Occam's razor IMO, what with all the rules for exceptions.

Funny how 50+ yrs ago, kids left school at 12yrs or 14yrs knowing how to read and write and not a phonics teacher in sight!!

exactly, it has become clear to me that there is a hell of a lot of money in it, as they have to re-equip every school in the land with all of the phonics materials, even though all of us learnt to read without it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But what do I know.

I will post the link for the Ron Davis video, because there are some interesting perspectives in it, as well as some things I think are wrong. Definitely worth treating it sceptically, but there are some good insights

Part 1 is

www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rdavis.htm?bcpid=1351321960&bclid=1352562619&bctid=1352562141

and part 2 is

www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rdavis2.htm

Claig - you mentioned that abstract concepts like time are difficult for dyslexics. This is common amongst deaf children too. Surely a sensory processing problem shared here, and with ASD too maybe.
Does make me wonder just how far reaching are the effects of auditory processing problems.

kissingfrogs, I didn't know that about deaf people. I think that Davis mentions similar problems for ASD. Fascinating how auditory problems may affect other areas of conceptual understanding.

Very interesting about the post on the other thread regarding the speaking when the lights went out.

My DS speaks and chats more than any other time when it's the middle of the night and he is in his cot and it's dark. He sings songs pitch perfect, puts words together and repeats phrases he has heard and generally talks a lot compared to during the day.

Is that to do with the visual stimulus being absent do you think? I did a little bit of research prior to DS being diagnosed but hadn't heard about children with ASD being very visual until this thread. It's fascinating, thank you.

what a fascinating thread. it's a question i have pondered in relation to deaf children who have not had access to sign language and who have not learned/been able to learn the spoken language of their family.

phoenix: just a thought about your ds and grammar. bsl has its own grammar and it makes more sense using bsl to establish what the subject is before describing it. i'm not saying that your ds is using bsl, just that if he is using a visual/spatial language, using adjectives first may not make a lot of sense to him.

I think it could well be that the visual senses, which are probably so strong and heightened, are no longer being available. I am not sure about this, but the way that I understand what Davis is saying is that often the speaking will only occur if the child is really motivated. But because autistic children have such acute senses in the spheres of the visual, auditory and smell etc., they understand the world so well via these senses that they often may not be motivated to talk. When the lights are out, and the visual sense is restricted, this may increase their motivation and bring forth their latent speaking talents.

It's very interesting that you mention singing. There is another fascinating post on here about children being very moved by sad music. They are able to empathise with the emotions in the music. There is a very interesting German music therapy that teaches music to all children, called Orff-Schulwerk (which means Orff school work, where Orff was the originator of the therapy). It has been found to be useful for autistic children. I don't know much about it, but an interesting article about it is at this link. The article gives some case studies of a child with cerebal palsy and a non-verbal child
www.voices.no/mainissues/mi40003000129.html

There is a UK Orff society, I think that they also have some experience of the therapy when it is applied to autistic children.
www.orff.org.uk/index.cfm

Thanks for the reply, claig, what you say makes so much sense. I'm all new to this and so happy to get new information

Thanks for the reply, claig, what you say makes so much sense. I'm all new to this and very glad to read such insightful information

so glad I said it twice - with edits!

I think that singing is so important. When I learnt French, I was very good at the written language etc. and reading, but I was a bit embarrassed to speak it. Then I started listening to French music and I sang along. I would really just sing one or two songs again and again. The improvement in my French was remarkable, my accent improved because I was able to exactly imitate the singer. Also my entire fluency in speaking the language increased. This all came about just by singing. It may be the same for your son. If he can be encouraged to sing along with you, that may help him. I think there is something inexplicable and magic about song.

I agree. Music to me encompasses so many skills. I played tunes on my toy piano at the age of three and then learned to read music as I was learning my numbers and letters at school.

Can't sing though, I just don't have the control or the pretty voice although I love to do it.

DS has such a beautiful, musical voice, perfect tuning and pitch as I've said. It's a shame that his vocalisations are usually for his own pleasure and all I usually hear during the day is his frustrated shrieking.

Fascinating to hear about your learning French and song, too. I can well imagine that.

Clag

Can see he seems be centered more around indivusals with autiusm .

The other link wa sintresting see ds can emapthise he can see sad faces know someones sad and if someone crys can undertsand that .
But if someone was to fall over ds would laugh he adores slapstick humor its the main one he gets .
Though he does the looking over shoulder when hes doing something he should not

Ah singing is way beyond ds he cant even make the first sounds that they try in school so we know phonics just does not work was told by salt whole words makes better sense for him as he can get better idea phonics is just to abstract

and as for me well less said about my singing the better,

LOL my ds's bedroom is pitch black due to a metal security shutter (deliberately installed by us to combat high summer daylight)....still no blardy words from him though!!

I believe that it is becoming more usual to teach a foreign language via music and singing now - makes sense to me!

ds1 hasn't learned speech from music. But he can sing perfectly in tune. When he stopped talking he started singing instead. So if he saw a star he stopped saying 'dar' and instead sang 'twinkle twinkle'

We thought he was a genius. lol.

We need a metal security shutter at the moment manny to combat the lack of sleep that is coming from streetlamp watching that ds1 is engaging in.

Best thing we ever spent money on!! They are totally fab, the only light that enters ds's room after lights out comes from the chink underneath his door (which doesn't illuminate his room very much at all).

Highly recommended!

Phoenix4725, it is interesting that your son loves slapstick. A major factor in slapstick is the visual aspect. They are visual, direct, physical gags. Slapstick is probably the most popular form of comedy ever, from circus clowns, Punch and Judy, Tom and Jerry, Charlie Chaplin, Laurel and Hardy etc.
The silent movies relied on their direct visual impact.

I think that slapstick is quite sophisticated and requires a high level of understanding and does involve empathy because we only laugh at the person being hurt because we know they have not in fact been hurt, they always bounce back for more. If they were really hurt then it would no longer be funny. It is like a suspension of reality, where the normal consequences of being hit etc. never in fact materialise.

ah see ds tends to laugh when someone falls over or walks into a door and tahst a tough to explain one if a dc does and ds is laughing

yes ds would not get a joke thats being told though so the visual makes sense

ah so he laughs because he knows it was the wrong thing to do, but doesn't realise how much it hurts.

yes he would not come out with outch if someone did walk into door yet show him picture of someone crying or downturn face and he understands there sad

As for punch and judy first time ds saw honestly if he was not wearing a nappy he would have wet himself

great that he really enjoys that

Re: metal shutters and blocking window in bedrooms. We have a 4 yr old DD with ASD and had her awake for hours and hours each evening for months and months watching all the lights on in houses opposite and the streetlight almost directly outside her window.

We tried a blackout blind - ripped down; a mesh travel stairgate on windowsill - climbed on top of this and balanced on top of it to see; a DIY MDF grille screwed into sides of window - lasted about 20 minutes before disassembly, until we gave up and decided from a safety POV that no barrier was best option. Until December when people put up flashing Christmas light displays in their front gardens opposite. Cue not falling asleep at all.

Then we found a blackout stick-on film for the window and have not looked back. Fabulously easy to stick on but next to impossible for DD to peel off. Can be removed whenever no longer needed. Not expensive (think about 25 quid for roll and have heaps left). Not even too ugly (we went for whiteout rather than blackout option IYSWIM). We love the stuff. DD goes to sleep much more quickly. Think only downside is that daylight is blocked out during day too but just turn main light on if needed.

We bought from here www.abodewindowfilms.co.uk/acatalog/Whiteout_Opaque_Window_Film.html though am sure it's available from other similar sites.