Possible ASD son, anyone with experience want to talk to me? Kind of struggling here.

[harrisonnnn]

I have namechanged for this, although not really sure why. I guess incase anyone in RL knows my usual posting name.

I think my son is on the Autistic spectrum.

Today at 11am I was asked to come and collect him from school as they couldn't cope with him anymore and the headteacher thought the teacerh needed a break from him

I am gutted and at my witt's end. I do not know what to do or how to handle this. I had a long talk with him this morning before school where he promised me he would try his hardest and earn some stamps on his reward chart but obviously he didn't even try.

I could just do with some support and advice really, and similar experiences so I know I am not alone.

Mostly, what strategies aftually work for helping them conform and behave better in school?

Any advice appreciated.

It might be interesting to see how many of the descriptors the school think he matches with, just to rule out any futher research.

Look up Elizabeth Newsom Centre - they specialise in diagnosis eg of Pathological Demand Avoidance and other more rare types of pervasive development disorders - more likely to figure out if aspergers or something else etc Consider asking for a referral if you don't have a suitably qualified clinical psychologist in your area. There will probably be behavioural strategies that will work but may be outside the experience of a local paed or school and need higher level of support. If he's basically being at risk of being excluded from school then you could also contact one of the education law voluntary agencies eg IPSEA / A.C.E. for advice. Its not that your child is uncontrollable its that schools have so little training in how to deal with kids who don't respond to the typical rules of discipline. Until you know what you are dealing with you can't really fix it. Read up on ABA as well. My son is still little but I have done a stack of reading and ABA just comes up again and again as being the most successful. Also find out about other schools eg for children with behavoural needs in your area - I know a boy who was not diagnosed as aspergers until he was 10 - he was thought to be naughty and his mum through she was just a terrible mum - he basically had a breakdown at the end of primary. He ended up in a special school for emotional and behavioural needs and is doing fantastic. He is very bright - his issues were all behavioural and he gets the support he needs. I'm not saying that is where your son needs to be - but get in touch - go and visit - talk to the staff - they will have seen this and worse before and will be a good source of info if nothing else.

Another place you might want to consider is BIBIC- they don't diagnose but they spend 2 or 3 days assessing your child and give you strategies. I also found the page after page of information they produced sped up the diagnostic procedure massively.

Don't be put off by the BI in BIBC stanbding for brain injured- they work with very mildly affected children up tovery severe, they just take you as they find you, and they spend an hour or so chatting to you first to see if they can help.

Littlefish I thought that too, I think i will talk to the teacher about it.

Thak you grumpyeeore, lots more to think about and take in! BethNoir and everyone you have given me lots to do this weekend!

ON a more positive note, yesterday and today DS has been really good in school, lots of positive feedback from the teacher and head and he has earnt some reward stamps and was really eager and pleased to tell me at lunchtime when I went to school.

Harrisonnn, my DS has 'mild to moderate Asperger's' in the diagnosis. He is also six and has a very difficult time in groups at school. I wouldn't say he was nearly as skilled at 1-1 social interaction as you describe your DS as being. However, he is VERY different at home - really calm and generally polite, plays well with DD etc.

I went to a NAS course called 'help!', for parents of recently diagnosed ASD children, and it was hugely helpful. The tutor describes the stress levels for an ASD child in the class as follows:

-big group of people
-high level of noise
-Loads of visual stimulation - colourful pictures on walls etc (stressful for ASD people)
-change

It's possible that the different environment at school could be making things stressful for him, hence the difficult behaviour. Is there a way he could get some quiet time before the 'flashpoints', perhaps with a PSA sitting quietly with him?

Good luck, I know how horrible the school pick-up thing is - I got a call this afternoon to pick up my DS because he had bitten a member of staff

Dazed - don't be sad. I was hit and kicked today by a child in my class. I know that he didn't mean to do it, he was simply reacting to a situation he found very difficult, and I happened to be in the way. I hope that I spoke to his mum with empathy and support which means that our relationship will continue unaffected next week. I also hope that this is how you were treated.

Harrisonnnnn - lovely to hear that your ds had a better day today.

Haven't got time to write a long reply now, will add some more later. Just to say my son is 8, has Aspergers, and sounds v similar to yours, although he does have social problems. He is generally brilliant at home, only kicks off if he is stressed by school, or there is too much stimulation going on at home, eg having too many children here. Search on my user name if you want to read more about him, and what we have found helps, we really have been through hell on the school front! Will post more later.

dazed I am sorry you are experiencing similar things, Littlefish has made me feel much better though, hopefully our ds's teachers are as kind and understanding as her! From what I can gather, my ds's teacher doesn't blame him, but the school do feel he could control himself more

Those triggers are exactly what we have worked out trigger DS, it's the crouds, noise and overstimulatoin of the classroom that set him off. After last year (DS is in the same classroom as last year) over the summer the head had the classroom repainted white (instead of lots of colour) and drastically reduced the displays up on the walls in order to reduce the overstimulation coming from the chaoes that used to be the walls. It certainly feels calmer in there when you first walk in.

The school cannot seem to pinpoint specific triggers though, some days are good and some days are bad and he's not always predictable in his outbursts.

oliansjoe thank you for sharing, it is very comforting to hear that other children are like this! Sometimes I just find myself wailing inside "just be normal for goodness sake" I have never, and would never say this to him though obviously and wouldn't change him for the world.

I think, having read what I have read so far, including the links people have given me here, mild aspergers is probably the most likely.

also, does anyone know anything about the son-rise programme? Someone told me to look it up and I did, it just seems to be saying 'join in with your child in their repettative play' etc, which is what I always used to do anyway when he was really obsessed with spinning, or whaen he was a cat (nine months of only ever being a cat).

Just wondered if it was worth reading mor about it. There is so much on the web I feel a bit overwhelmed tbh and don't know where to start.

Hi Harrisonnn,

I was where you are, - overwhelmed with everything, and it took me about 3 months to feel in a position where I knew what I wanted and begin.

For your own sanity, for a record of how far you have come, and to be able to jot down leads that you are interested in, but not able to research yet, make a list of every contact, lead you have with the date and summary of the conversation/information. IN PARTICULAR, from this day on, make a note of every single conversation you have with a member of the Local Authority. In 6months-year you will be very glad you did.

Try to move forward but not panic. There is a lot to take on board.

hth

i have been in this situation myself but you really need to stress that there must be a reason behind the behaviour if son dont understand what he has to do he will get frustrated and play up.
allowing the school to send him home because the teacher cant cope isnt good enough. they have a duty to provide him with the right support to enable him to receive an education the more you allow this the more they will pass the buck on to you.
go to you gp an tell them you problems an see if they will refer him for an assessment but you need to be blunt an honest about his difficulties, and the affect on your home life as a result.
goodluck

'The school cannot seem to pinpoint specific triggers though, some days are good and some days are bad and he's not always predictable in his outbursts.'

(am beth, under new name)

There's not always one trigger for ds1, sometimes it is simply an overload. Other times it seems the trigger happened days before- for example, DH was walking with ds1 and ds2 last year and ds1 suddenly pushed ds2 almost under a car- after much shock and fear, we managed to find out that ds2 had somehow annoyed ds1 days before. DS1 is though given to particualr acts of aggression; he's calmish at school (from what I know, usually I find out via accusing aprents rather than school) right now (though thats rare) but we are getting two + meltdowns at homre, all involving some violence.

Have you looked at the gluten free and casein free diet? I do find this helps DS1.

t may be that thre'ssomething unchangeablee at school thats a trigger (I once worked with a severely asd man who was triggered by red hair) or as with ds1, a level of agoraphobia.

harrisonnnn - you need to get a referral to a clinical psychologist. Neither the paed nor the ed psych can dx Aspergers (which is my humble and untrained opinion is more likely than him being autistic).

I am finding it hard to understand why they say that if it weren't for him home behaviour he would have a dx. From what you have listed he has been displaying signs of AS at home as well. The lack of eye contact, taking things literally, not getting jokes are all the sort of things that a child on the spectrum would have problems with. He isn't completely symptom free at home and as you say, you know exactly how to handle him so it isn't surprising he acts up at school where they don't seem to be able to handle him.

Anyway, neither of the people you have seen are the right expert for a child on the spectrum - although your problem is getting the paed to refer you which is what happens round here. I also think if it is a sensory problem (i.e. he seems to be suffering from sensory overload at school) the clinical psych would have more chance of getting to the exact dx. There is a condition solely related to sensory overload which I can't remember the name of. Perhaps somebody else will. Maybe he fits those criterion better?

If it helps, there is a book called The Sensitive Child which it might be worth having a look at.

The final thing was to ask if the school have him on the special needs register? You don't need a dx to get extra help and it sounds like your DS could do with some one-to-one help at school.

Much sympathy though. I have a DS with dyspraxia/AS and I know how awful the 'getting to the bottom of it' bit of the process is.

Nievccie that depends where you are- my ds1 was dx'd by a Paediatrician. It's something the OP needs to ask a GP, what the protocol is.

Autistic Spectrum does cover Aspergers, autism is a branch of it iyswim (sorry absing on OP- if autism per se was mentioned elsewhre then sorry but OP might find the info useful)

Whether a child gets a dx of AS or ASD (HFA) depends on language development- it's unclear whetehr there were certain issues with ds1's langauge at that age so he a formal DX of AS / HFA. Also, some Paeds now are moving away from AS altogether and giving dx's of autistic spectrum disorder. My own APed says that's very much her incluination with new patients- so many kids present as aspergers or as Autism but the actual dx system ties her to early langugae this way / late that and as a group they are moving away slowly.

I understand the other reason some PAeds here are moving away is that SSDs and LEAs are increasingly having policies of not supporting Aspergers even though soem children with it 8are* quite needy- whereas ASD diagnoses require individual assessment of that childs needs, which can only be a spotive imo.

Youa re right about home behaviour- it is acepted that ASD behaviours vary with setting. OP, can I suggest you call the NAS about that? I did when applying for my sattement for ds1 and they e-mailed me information clarifying the fact that behavioural differences in relation to settinga re a normal part of autstic spectrum disorder and to be expected.

Sorry about tyoping- if I dont wear glasses I cant proof read, if I do I get migraines- bloody annoying!

(Niecie you do now me LOl, don't want to out myself on here but happy to if you CAT)

Round here ds had a dx of autism by a NHS Paed (with SALT and Ed Psych input) and a priate Paed alone.

DoNOT

DS is going to get his NHS diagnosis on Monday. The SALT has asked me to fill in a form 'if I have time' for input into the process. It is extremely clear from the form that she has given me that she grossly underestimates his language ability.

He isn't yet 3. Would it be a good stategy then to 'not have had time'?

I would prefer a dx of autism to aspergers for the reason you outline and because quite frankly, the spectrum is a spectrum and I think is is too early to give him such a definate label.

Also, given that a label of aspergers won't get us anything 'extra' and could well get us less it seems to be to be a sensible approach.

Good grief, this is a right ole rigmorole isn't it?

You have to be honest. If you are shown later not to be, it will cause problems.

Moonlight couldn't you write on the form that you feel they have grossly underestimated his language ability?

Moonlight I never thought to write everything down, so startting today I am going to keep everything in a specific diary and I am going to keep a record of everythgin said to me but also any behaviour at home or outside school that could help anyone assessing him.

Part of my reluctance to believe what the ed psych says is she observed him for all of 30 minutes inschool, and the paediatrician only observed him for about 20 minutes, in her office, with me there (of course he gave no eye contact, he'd never met her before!)

The school have actually appologised to me for sending him home that day, and saifd that as they threatened him with it they had to carry it out and follow through even though what he'd done wasn't that bad

Sorry if I don't mention everyone by name to thank you for your input, it is all really helpful and I am actually going to print this off so I can go through it again more thoroughly and make notes of all the things I need to do etc.

DONOT don't worry about the typing, I could read it all and it was all very helpful, so thank you!

Niecie my gut instinct is that it is a sensory problem rather than ASD, but when I mentioned this to the SENCO she looked a bit blank and then said she'd never heard of it apart from somethgin that ASD children have, and they haven't mentioned it sinse. Should I bring this up myself again?

DONOT I hadn't looked at gluten free and casien free diets. I have recently drastically cut his extra-sugar intake as it had crept up over the years and that has coencided with him being much calmer and more co-operative in general. It could be linked.

He eats very little food with artificial colours and flavours in anyway (mostly because we are skint and live off rice and lentils and carrots )

Oh gosh he is rigid about his food and almost all of it is a combination of wheat and dairy.

Sensory integration disorder is something an occupational therapist can help with. A GP can refer for an assessment.

giveme I am planning to be honest. I've been telling them for 6 months that the SALT don't have a clue about his abilities.

Everytime I tell them he can do something they say 'but how do you know?' then I tell them how and that say 'but how do you know he can generalise that?' and I tell them how I know and then they say 'but how do you know that he can generalise that when you are not there?

I'm not planning to change that, just not submit a form that's all.