Getting slightly worried about dd...

[mysonben]

I' m probably overeacting as per usual.
DS is 3.9, with mild asd. DD is soon 16 months.

She has been pointing at things since age 12 months (without us having to teach her), she has a few words still a bit unclear since 14 months, she brings us things,...
But lately, she has started to spin herself ,i mean walking round and round until she falls over (sometimes it's because there is music on but sometimes not), she has started to flick her ears now and then, and her little bit of vocabulary isn't increasing if anything over the past 2 weeks she has been using words less with more screaming.
She used to be a very sweet baby, but she is becoming very difficult and will cry and want to stay on the floor when i want to cuddle her.
DD 's attention span for the tv is also increasing dramatically, and she is always going to the bin to fish rubbish out, she is also always on the lookout for tubes of creams, juice bottles (from the bin),...because she likes to shove the neck it of these into her mouth and suck them..

She still a different , more "with it" baby than what ds was at that age, but i'm still worried, and my HV dismissed my worries when i spoke to her .
Am i been silly and over reacting???

Hi,
No, I don't think that you are being silly at all. I think that when you have a child with an ASD, it's only natural to 'watch' another child for signs. I know that I do it with dd2 (dd1 has AS).

However, your dd is very young - she's still at the stage where it's too hard to tell what is NT for her age and what could be a sign of an ASD. I think the HV could have been a lot more supportive and understanding.

Could you maybe keep a note of any concerns you have, such as changes in language/possible stimming? If you continue to be concerned, you have a record to show to your GP.

my other dc used to love spinning in circles till they fell over.Could she be hitting the toddler tantrum stge early

The HV said DD does these things now because she is entering the "independant" older baby phase.
I hope she 's right!
But this HV is also the one that completely missed the red flags for autism at ds' 2 years check up! So now i'm wary of her competance.

agree with siblingrivalry, ds2 is 13 months and not pointing but does wave bye bye. He is alot more vocal no words yet than ds1 was. he likes getting things out of the bin but then he likes putting things in it. What i am going to do is start yet another folder and write down any things i notice with dates etc so if i do have later concerns can show everything instead of going umm err. ds1 also has paed app soon so will quiz her about what happens if i have worries do I have to go through the wait and see approach or will someone actually listen to me this time.
Could she be teething ds2 is very grumpy at the mo as he is getting back teeth he seems to take ages to get teeth through and when he gets a set they come through 1 after the other so he have a few weeks of hell then he is all sweetness and light again.

Yes i will start a little notebook about dd's developemnt and if i see that things start to change more, like no more progress and more spinning,...
I will go straight to GP.

HV said "dd does the spinning because she likes the giddy feeling she gets and all babies go through that stage".
Well my ds1 (16 y), who is NT, never did that or flicked his ears.

You are not being silly if your child has had a definite change in behaviour, but yes NT children do a lot of things that could be deemed autistic eg lining up toys is something I reckon about half the boys I know went through + watching the same dvd over and over seems pretty normal. But my two NT children (now 5 & 7) did not spin around, flick their ears or other mannerisms. Whilst they did have more tantrums from 12 months so the "terrible twos" were about a year early in our house, this did not correspond to them being less affectionate - I can't see why being more independent would make a child less likely to want a cuddle, in fact I would say that the whole separation anxiety / clingyness thing was quite apparent at the toddler stage. Tantrums usually related to a specific thing I wanted them to do and them refusing eg putting on clothes, going in pushchair. However pulling things out of cupboards is normal but in an inquisitive "into everything" kind of way. I would suggest you print off the MCHAT and score it and keep copies so you can check back. If she likes tv you could try a signing video and use signs and see if that helps with her language. I would say my older boys had times when their language plateaued (usually when they were concentrating on another skill eg learning to walk), but never regressed. Loss of language at any age is an absolute red flag for autism (how DS3 got diagnosed) - perhaps write down the words she uses each day and if you are worried ring your other child's speech therapist and have a chat - they or the GP can refer direct for a hearing test as well which might be worth ruling out eg glue ear or something (especially with the flicking the ears thing). I don't want to worry you, but I would say that the milestones eg no words by 16 months (I know you say she has a few words, but only a few) is a very low threshold, most children would be exceeding this by some margin so my children got their first words at 8-10 months (and typical words eg hello, mummy, daddy) and by 16 months would have quite a few words (animal names and noises, labelling things in books, be joining in songs etc) and increasing steadily. When they say no words by 16 months that would be the outer limit - I'm not saying that some children don't talk late, but most children with articulate parents like you would be expecting their children to be well above the milestone and generally girls are more advanced with language than boys so I would say only a few words by 16 months is a bit worrying even though it is within the limits of "normal". Does she do peek a boo, feed & kiss dolls, row your boat etc? The MCHAT will give you a list of things to watch for. My children were literally hanging onto my legs at that age, I could not even go to the loo in peace. So while they had tantrums about not wanting to do things I asked them, I would say this was a sign of independent thinking, rather than a physical independence / separation. Which I guess is a long way of saying i think your HV is talking nonsense about the not wanting to be cuddled thing. I would also say hitting the tantrum stage early often indicates a child who is brighter than average (being frustrated by being unable to communicate etc earlier than other children) and would suggest her language should also be above average.

words at 8-10 months?!?!? my 1 year old DS babbles a LOT (totally diff in many ways from DS1 2.8 ASD) but has no words. Afraid I dont have anything to compare to other than DS1, but isn't that pretty early for children to have words? Im impressed! ANd worried now....

mysonben. I like hte idea of keeping a journal and im going to steal it for myself -but I would say go with your gut. A lot of what you say is pretty standard behaviour in my opinion and nothing to get too concerned about at this point. Try not to worry yourself too much (!!) and perhaps try to see how the next few months pan out. You are obvious watching verly closely and I'm sure if it turns out to be something, you will get onto it at the earliest time possible.

Thanks ladies.
I will be keeping an eye out for sure.

Hopefully it is nothing to worry about, DD has always been on the ball or so to speak, very different to DS who would spend hours playing in the same way by himself, she hasn't got many words yet, but her babbling has always been more "advanced" than DS's, with lots of different sounds.

She does copy us for peek-a-boo, and cuddles/kisses her dollies,...at the moment anyway.
It's just the daily spinning and ears flicking that worry me, plus her constant rumaging through the bin, and frequent tantrums where she won't have us near her.
I hope she increases her vocabulary soon...

Mind you at that age DS spoke no words at all and he didn't point either. I think DS never got passed the unclear word of "mama", which he even didn't direct at me for a long time. Never sure if and when he had a regression, but thinking back he had stopped progressing by about 16-18 months.
He was almost non-verbal until well past age 2 years old.
So i guess there is hope that dd will be ok.

I can't see any ASD issues in what you describe so possibly you are worrying too much - but it is a good idea to note development if it makes you feel better.

But I can understand why you feel worrried - esp. if HV is clueless - I think lack of knowledge about how children develop must be a pre requisite for the job !!! MIne was hopeless too.

Mysonben, My DD (2.3. we are 99% sure NT) went through the spinning things for a bit, and we did not think much of it as DS (ASD and Just turned 4)never had any. I think your HV is right to the extent that all children do this spinning things for a bit (I am thinking about my niece who was talking fully by 18 months and loving to spin until fell over). But I agree with you about not learning new words, and it is really good idea to keep development check. My DD is always talking, learning new things, putting together 3-4 words sentences. But between 19-24 months her nursery wanted us to get her checked for ASD (they probably were trying to link her with DS) due to extreme crying. You know what this was due to teething.

Sorry I think I might have gone overboard in my post - just wanted to make the point that milestones can be stuck to rigidly by HV and can lead them to be over-reassuring - so not to ignore your instincts. The imaginative play sounds very reassuring and on target and even if she doesn't have many words just that she's babbling in a communicative way - that to and fro. I don't notice when I am with DS that the quality of his interaction is so different than other children (despite having had 2 older children!) because I'm so used to thats how he is but when I see another baby or toddler I can instantly see that desire for attention, the smiling up at people, looking back at their parent. In fact I've spent all summer trying not to end up holding other peoples babies because it will just upset me that DS doesn't do that anymore.

Juliaw, we were like that when ds was a baby, i mean early on we had sort of noticed that he was different, but different in a "normal" way, we used to put it down to his personality, we'd think he was just shy, and that his speech was late because he was a lazy boy (so many people used to say that to us!), and the quiet type for playing (i actually use to brag about ds playing alone for ages whislt my friend's and sister's tots were crying for attention all the time!).

How wrong we were, i mean we get so use to our own kids little ways that we don't see them with a fresh view, if that makes sense?

Honestly sometimes i think ds is ok, what's all about?
Then we go out somewhere or my nephew visits and it hits me again, ... yes DS has some problems and some delays.

Also if i would have had DD before DS (he is 2.5 y older) , we would have probably realised quicker that DS 's differences were not just all down to a different personality.