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I need a safe place to grieve and to rage for our summer-born children.

182 replies

lingle · 08/12/2008 10:21

According to the press, Sir Jim Rose has thrown away the Government's suggestion that allowing immature summer-born children to defer their entry into reception for a year should become the norm in England as it is in Scotland.

Although DS2 is now "safe", because I have Bradford LEA's confirmation in writing that we can year-defer and start reception at 5, I am genuinely grief-stricken by this. I have campaigned for this for some time and have become every more convinced that parents need this option.

We have had contact with four health professionals in relation to DS2 now. Whatever I think of them in other respects, all four, plus the two teachers at school, have expressed strong and immediate confirmation that deferring DS2's formal education until he is 5 will fundamentally change his life chances for the better. In my view, this simple act of waiting for the child to be as ready as he can will be more valuable and save the taxpayer more money than any assessment, intervention or therapy.

As if I needed any more confirmation, the specialist early years support teacher who looks after DS2 has confirmed that her pupils consist completely disproportionately of summer-borns.

I suppose the July-August borns with mums who have followed the debate will at least benefit from understanding parents who know it is the system, not the child, that is awry, and who will shield them and remind their teachers of the issue. But the parents who don't know that 4.0 is absurdly early for so many little ones to be sitting concentrating and learning to read, write and add up will be told their child is "behind" or "struggling", if not in reception, where they can soften the blow, then in Year 1 or Year 2. From the statistics about diagnoses of ADHD, etc, it seems that there are many false positive diagnoses in summer-borns.

I feel quite sickened by this wasted opportunity. I feel angry. I feel I should have done more. I need a thread where no one says "Well mine started school at 4.0 and it's wonderful so therefore every child ought to start at 4.0". I feel safer on the SN board.

OP posts:
Flibbertyjibbet · 08/12/2008 17:02

I thought this thread was about babies you have lost in the summer and were somehow mistreated by the hospitals or something.
There are support threads on here by mums of children who have died and I thought it was one of those.
I really don't think you can say that you 'grieve' for a summer born child starting school.

fwiw I was born late july, started school at just 4 and was top of the class all the way through primary. (cos in those days you had exams and all knew what place you had come. Now if they still did THAT there would be room for a lot of anger - but not grief and rage).

Mercy · 08/12/2008 17:07

I know you are upset but I think it would be helpful if you could try to explain.

concretefeet · 08/12/2008 17:28

I agree Lingle as I also have a late July born delayed speaking boy and I worry how he will cope at just 4 with school.

I always read your posts about your ds and appreciate what you are saying and why you feel strongly about this.

TotalChaos · 08/12/2008 18:03

I guess lingle posted here because having a language delayed child starting mainstream school can be a terrifying prospect. It's very very very hard to get statements in some cities including mine for language delay, so you are at the mercy of there being a supportive reception class teacher and head. Other than the odd SALT visit, DS has no support other than understanding staff in mainstream.

Shells · 08/12/2008 18:53

I'm with you Lingle. Its an appalling system and even without SN, a LOT of NT children never catch up and are disadvantaged for their whole school lives. I'm not exaggerating. There is research to back this up.

Add some SN into the mix and its totally wrong. And there are ways of making it work. In New Zealand where I'm living there is a much more flexible approach.

lingle · 08/12/2008 19:01

OK then Mercy, I will try.

For me, my child's special needs are intricately entwined with his 21st August birthday. They are part and parcel of the same thing. He speaks late, he understands very very late. The speech therapist suspects he is autistic. I think he isn't so that makes me pretty lonely. But most importantly, he follows the same neurological path as his elder brother, who outgrew his difficulties by about 4.6.

I have not the slightest doubt that if his elder brother had gone to school at 4.0, he would have been classed as having special needs. His speech was only just coming together at 4.0. We might well have had him diagnosed as "HFA" or high-functioning autistic.

A false positive diagnosis like this - or even just the prospect of it - would have affected more people than me and my family and our relationship with our son. It would have affected those other children in the queue for speech therapy, for specialist support, for one-to-one. Forcing 4.0 boys who are not ready into school then diagnosing them as having special needs is to the direct detriment of other children who are also in need of support but for whom waiting is no cure. Nor does it give the early-starting child an educational advantage - see our performance compared with that of countries where all children start later.

For me, the spectre of the 4.0 starting date kept me awake for the last two years more than the tantrums, more than the echolalia, more than the averted eye-contact, more than the rigid behaviours, more than anything really. I had a strange and long long "battle" (more like a dance really) with the Council which resulted - finally - in getting confirmation that my DS2 could defer for a year without needing any diagnosis. As the tantrums go, the echolalia fades, the eyes look straight at me, the behaviour improves, I can feel happy knowing that he has time to catch up.

Negotiating this start date did not come easy. At one point, I "caught" Bradford Council about to change their policy and literally had to run down the hill from my house to catch a train to run to their executive council meeting to persuade them not to alter the policy. I feel proud that there are hundreds of children in my LEA whose parents have a choice because of what I did that day in April. I don't expect many of the parents to take up the choice. Many of them have kids who will thrive. More sadly, many of them will never be told they have a choice - the opinion of my nursery manager is that it all comes down to funding and that schools collude in keeping the true statutory school age a secret.

After a while, you start to think. You think "Hey, I'm a lawyer, I know how to analyse, I know how to argue, I know to fight. Other people don't. Other people's children are being damaged. Other children with SN are sitting in a queue while boys who just needed another year at home are being assessed and analysed and diagnosed and treated. Other LEAs are, in my opinion, breaching the Human Right Act". You think about your own child, but you think about the other children too. You have to remember that many 4.0 children thrive at school (I haven't met any frankly but their parents post on mumsnet) - and outside mainstream is a different issue altogether - but you realise you are one of a tiny minority of parents with the relevant experience to stand up for the ones who aren't going to thrive.

So when I found that the Government had briefed Jim Rose to report on more flexible options for school starting age, I was very happy and excited, not just for my child but for others. It's a bit like the US election, to give you an analogy that you may find acceptable.

Then the Rose report came out today and I was extremely disappointed. And I felt more upset because the same bloody posts were still appearing suggesting this is a trivial issue. Like I would have to start all over again to explain that this is a disgrace. That no child dies because of this but thousands are affected, not just directly but also because the money and the professionals are being diverted away from other kids. And I had come to believe that it is important. That it's a big issue. And that not every child would benefit from deferring but to deprive mothers of the right to defer is disenfranchising.

And I post on this board a lot. And when I've had a horrible enounter with a professional or a sneering mother of a neurotypical child, it's the mothers on the SN board who pick me up time and time again, even though most of them must think I'm in denial about my child's condition. They tolerate this in me as many of us tolerate the denial in our husbands and partners. They give me the benefit of a hard-won expertise that they never wanted to have and they don't ask for any return. And all I hope I can do to contribute is to speak for the people who feel too bloody scared about their non-talking kids' future to even post on the special needs board. Some are too scared to even click on it.

And I suppose I made the mistake of thinking that I could express my feelings away from the main board. Because I'd got into the habit of coming here and being understood when no-one else understands, including my husband, parents and friends. And I forgot that most of you don't have kids on the ASD borderline who are born in August. And that most of you have not spent the last 18 months campaigning on the issue. And I forgot that "summer-born" has no significance to most of you whereas to me it means school-age issues.

OP posts:
bullet123 · 08/12/2008 19:08

How do you feel your ds2 compares to a child who is his age Lingle, or slightly younger? To be honest surely the teachers are fully aware that there will be a difference in ability between the September born babies and the August born babies and so will be comparing him to other July and August born babies. If they aren't then I would have concerns.

2AdventSevenfoldShoes · 08/12/2008 19:10

thanks for that lingle i get it now.

Shells · 08/12/2008 19:17

My boy is ASD borderline and he doesn't have to start school til he's 6 and I'm still feeling sick about it. Its horrible.

Mamazontopofsanta · 08/12/2008 19:19

can i just say that i find it quite offensive that you are implying that some autistic children are mis diagnosed simply because of their date of birth.

I really do not see how a childs birthday affects his development. i can see that once in the education system there will be a cinsiderable difference, certainly in the first few years at aleast between and August and a september baby....but im sorry a langugae delay is a language delay.

I agree that parents should have more choice over their childs progression through school. Ds is a september baby and as such is one of the youngest in his year, but he is still very far behind and would probably have been more at ease ( at leaste educationally, if not socially) if he had been held back a year.

but to "grieve" about your Ds going to school and then to make teh implication that this is what results in "fake" diagnosis of autism.

Mamazon, angry mother of an HFA child.

lou031205 · 08/12/2008 19:22

Lingle, thank you for explaining why this is so important to you.

I think, to be honest, that your posts reveal a bit of your dichotomy - in one sense, you are saying that your DS has special needs, ie. language delay & 'rigidity' etc., but then in the other sense you seem to be saying that your DS is a victim of being born on August 21st, and that had he not been, he wouldn't have special needs. Or perhaps you would view it as a victim of an inflexible education system.

To be honest, I feel that it is a bit of denial, because whether your son started school at just 4 or approaching 5, it would be his behaviours and issues that caused him a problem in the setting. And whilst I accept that your hope would be that he will grow out of these by the time he starts school, surely the real issue is that right now your son has additional needs.

Don't get me wrong, I have a DD with developmental delays, and I thank God that she has a December birthday, so has 2 years at pre-school. My younger DD is a 12th August birthday, and I know things would be much more pressured to get resources in place if DD1 (who currently gets full 1:1 at pre-school) had a summer birthday.

I just think it can be easy to put energy into something as a way of avoiding the real issues, and to be frank, the issue of the summer birthday thing isn't your fight anymore.

With regard to services being wasted, I disagree also. Your son would be assessed and offered treatments to help him reach age appropriate milestones and targets. If and when he caught up with his peers, it is likely he would be discharged anyway. No harm done.

I don't think it is a case of no-one understanding. I feel that it is more the case that you have been consumed by this that is has got a little out of proportion. Grieve is a strong term to use for an issue that has already been resolved for you.

paranoid2 · 08/12/2008 20:08

I am a firm believer that some summer born children are not ready to start school at just turned 4 but I also believe that if a child has problems they are going to surface at school irrespective of the age they start albeit they may not surface until a bit later as the gap between them and their peers widen. I have Dt's both summer born with both not ready to start school at 4. However I knew in my heart that although dt1 was very young he was going to be ok and I knew Dt2 was going to struggle (ADHD and dyspraxic traits, immaturity )for a long time. Now in yr3 Dt1 is flying (probably not as flying as he would have been had he not been premature and in yr2 but still ahead of where he needs to be for his age). Dt2 is struggling. I reckon his problems would not have been picked up in school for possibly another year but they would have come to light and i guess help would have been further down the road than it was. i lives in denial for a while thinking he would catch up because he was so young but there was more to it than that as I saw his peers and his brother streaking ahead

paranoid2 · 08/12/2008 20:10

I meant Dt2' problems woud not have been picked up for another year if he had been born a months later and only in yr2

MadLyCarrolingChristmasMouse · 08/12/2008 20:38

Oh dear, this is all getting very emotional. Lingle well done for explaining yourself, sometimes it can end in just getting tangled further.

I must say I was shocked when i read grief in the title and expected something far more horrid than this too.

I can see where 2shoes comes from, and some of the others.

On the other hand 2shoes, you probably have more reason than most to worry about your child's disability and future. And we all benefit from your expertise and support. But many of us are affected by lesser issues and in some ways I guess being borderline is quite tough too, not quite NT, not quite SN.

And we don't judge on this board now, do we

It boils down to how bl**dy frustrating it is if you as parent do not get the chance to decide what is best.

daisy5678 · 08/12/2008 20:40

Lingle, I totally hear you - about the summer birthday things and about the it's not just about our children thing - I, like you, have succeeded in getting many of the things e.g. Statements etc. for J that he needs, but it makes me angry (and yes, grieve) that so many children do not have parents who can fight those fights and win. That's why I shove myself onto every parents'/ disability/ SEN panel possible, to try to make sure that needs aren't met on a who-has-the-pushiest parent basis.

I think people have been a bit on this thread, to be honest. I don't like oneupmanship of 'my problem's worse than yours'.

I can see why you worry for your son and think it's admirable that you care so much about others that you want them to have the same choices as you.

kettlechip · 08/12/2008 20:47

Good grief, is it a full moon? This is an unusually aggressive thread for SN! It's not a competition over who has it hardest, or a suggestion that autism is an age related condition - this is about the OP, who is expressing a valid point about something which she feels passionately about.

Lingle, I'm sorry you've had such a hard time on here - I understand your point, you know I do. I am in exactly the same situation with a child 18 days older than yours. I would love to defer him a year. It has really concerned me that if he had been born just 4 weeks later he could have had an extra year in preschool which (if he is like his father) would mean that his language issues would have improved dramatically by the time he starts year one, and that he'd be on far more of a par with his peer group.

However, on the positive side, being amongst reception children, as ds1 now is 2 days a week in preschool, has brought him on no end. I am now feeling that it may actually be an advantage rather than a disadvantage for ds1 to get him into full time education at a young age, as he'll receive a great deal of support from the age of 4 rather than 5. He's starting to interact with children far better, his understanding and speech has greatly improved. I do credit the school staff with a good deal of this improvement. Hopefully as we've chosen a really small school for him with mixed age classes tailored towards individual needs, he will have the whole of his primary school years to mature and catch up.

Tclanger · 08/12/2008 21:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lingle · 08/12/2008 21:18

Thank you so much 2AdventSevenfoldShoes that is much appreciated.

Thanks Kettle I was so worried about offending you too. I'm crying now.

OP posts:
devoutsceptic · 08/12/2008 21:24

Actually mamazon there is a direct proven correlation between being summer born and being on the SEN register. I am very glad my son was born in September. Everyone thinks he is the youngest in his year as it is. I can't imagine how he would have fitted in in a class of children a year older. He has mild SN.

kettlechip · 08/12/2008 21:27

Glad you're back lingle, I've been worried about you - I'm actually quite shocked by some people's vitriolic responses. All I can say is that I don't recognise many names, and they obviously aren't the many people that you've supported over past months on this board.
Chin up, and never worry about offending me!!

devoutsceptic · 08/12/2008 21:31

"The report also found evidence that teachers and parents were mistaking poor performance as a result of age for special educational needs.

August-born girls were 72% more likely than September-born girls to be recorded as having special educational needs."

So unless being born two weeks later really does give you SN, there is a problem here, isn't there?

bbc report on the study

bullet123 · 08/12/2008 21:37

I'm sorry if I upset you Lingle, it wasn't my intention.
In some ways Ds1 is ahead of typical children his age, he is very good with numbers and counting, he can memorise words to read very well and he is very good with non verbal puzzles like jigsaws. Where he struggles is with understanding, with communication and interaction, with some probable sensory issues (pretty sure he's hyposensitive to some things like touch and taste) and with disordered language. So for him it was never the concern that he was just immature and needed that extra time to catch up with his peers.

Mamazontopofsanta · 08/12/2008 21:37

well i can assure you i have been here a while.
i don't post on Sn very pften as to be honest i consider myself very lucky in comparison to what many here have to go through.

i certainly don't have a "my Sn is worse than yours" attitude. but i really do get quite angry at the implication that Autism is misdiagnosed and is actually just due to a summer birthday!

i do not disregard your upset about the possible difficulties your Ds may face but i also agree with whoever it was that said you may be in denial over the possibility that your Ds may have some Sen.

2AdventSevenfoldShoes · 08/12/2008 21:38

By MadLyCarrolingChristmasMouse on Mon 08-Dec-08 20:38:12
Oh dear, this is all getting very emotional. Lingle well done for explaining yourself, sometimes it can end in just getting tangled further.

I must say I was shocked when i read grief in the title and expected something far more horrid than this too.

I can see where 2shoes comes from, and some of the others.

On the other hand 2shoes, you probably have more reason than most to worry about your child's disability and future. And we all benefit from your expertise and support. But many of us are affected by lesser issues and in some ways I guess being borderline is quite tough too, not quite NT, not quite SN.

And we don't judge on this board now, do w

are you taking the piss?

lingle · 08/12/2008 21:46

no, no, Bullet not at all you haven't upset me. Your posts are very helpful as I've no experience outside mainstream.

OP posts: