ABA vs Floortime vs other techniques

[mumgoingcrazy]

I wasn't sure whether to start a new thread or tag it onto the active ABA thread going at the moment.

I'm very new to these techniques, DD2 is 17 months old and the only dx we have is dev delay. She is making good progress but we do have a lot of catching up to do. About a month ago I started the 'floortime' technique which is proving to be successful (although tiring). Her eye contact and interaction and come on leaps and bounds already. With weekly Physio/OT/SALT and Portage her dev is also coming along nicely.

My question really is firstly what is ABA and how does it compare to floortime, or what are the differences? Also, what other techniques are there if any? I have no idea if they are totally different and used to different problems or whether they compliment eachother. I just want to be sure I'm doing the right thing by DD2. Thanks xx

You need to talk to Jimjams.
She uses both.
I'm not familiar with Floortime (yet) but have a general idea of the principles.
It is my clinical view (I'm a SN SALT) that the structure and rigour of ABA (in which i am doing an MSc) can work very nicely with something more fluid and gentle like Intensive Sensory Interaction, FT or Intensive Interaction.

I'm still looking for a site myself that explains ABA in a user friendly jargon free way!

For balance (since hardly anyone else ever mentions it ) I will mention RDI (relationship development intervention). It is aimed at autistic children but I think it is appropriate for many developmentally delayed children. We are using it with Ds2.

Moondog, I'm very interested in ABA now as DD2 has sensory processing issues, mainly tactile and possibly auditory as well. Also what is FT? Can you tell me what it's about, or it's main principles?

Saker, can you tell me more about RDI, as a lot of what we do with floortime is to improve eye contact and interaction and RDI gives me the impression this might work too.

Thank you!!

The idea with RDI is to start back at the beginning and take a child through development again, this time at a very slow pace not moving on until each stage is mastered. Each stage is broken down into lots of very small objectives. The parent leads all activities which tend to be very "lifestyle" - ie every day things like laying the table, "framed" in a way to help the child meet the objective. However you would choose appropriate activities and for a very little child you may do more games or more basic tasks that they can manage. It is not like ABA at all. It has some things in common with floortime, but as I understand it, floortime is child-led, whereas RDI is very much parent led. You usually work with a consultant (not cheap).Have a look at RDI connect. HTH a bit, there's a lot more I could say but I don't want to get more confusing that I am already.

What we do IRL sounds a bit like RDI. We break tasks down into smaller units - emptying plate into bin then putting the plate in the sink etc. It is easy to fit into your everyday lifestyle. I will have a look at the RDI web site

Cyberseraphim - I'm not sure what your objectives would be, but in RDI the objectives are not really to with the actual activity, rather the activity provides a framework for practising the objectives. So for example, at the moment we are working on co-regulation - that is, for Ds2 to see that we both have a role in getting a job done, and that we need to co-ordinate our roles to be successful. So we might take it in turns to put the washing in the washing machine. The actual washing doesn't really matter, it is just a vehicle for practising the objective. However as you say by doing lifestyle, it fits in more with every day activities and we find Ds2 is more willing because he sees a point to it.

Cyber, what is IRL?

I'm still confused as to what ABA is, but RDI I like the sound of, but also floortime does work for us at the moment as I incorporate into her Portage activities.

She's so young I do feel I've got time to choose the most appropriate technique and make the change if I need to.

Son-Rise is completely child led. Floortime starts by following a child's lead but that is then extended by the consultant/parent so it moves onto adult led iyswim - usually this happens very quickly or the interaction tends to be lost.

We use ABA in part to teach. So for example we needed to teach ds1 to imititate - we did this using ABA. The key with ABA is that you reinforce desirable behaviours. We've tended to do traditional at the table ABA because we've done it for an hour or so at a time after school. And ABA programme would be much more varied than that though and perhaps do very little table work. If you use PECS that is taught using ABA.

We use Floortime as well. Greenspan talks about using ABA and Floortime together with ABA to teach and Floortime to increase interaction.

Thanks Jimjams, I was hoping you would post on here. From what you said it sounds like I can incorporate both ABA and Floortime quite well in the therapy we do already. The daily Portage activities we do are certainly adult led and definately reinforce desireable behaviours so maybe I'm sort of doing ABA anyway. Do you know of a good book about ABA (not too technical) that I could read? I read "the child with special needs" by Stanley Greenspan which is where I first heard about floortime, but it was quite heavy going.

I should also just mention that I went to the floortime repository that you recommended in a previous thread I started and this is how we really got going with floortime. I downloaded the home program and went from there and DD2 responds well to it. So thank you for that.

I've just read about ABA on the NAS website, it seems like a good summary in a language I can understand. I definately feel that we do ABA already through our existing therapy, however it said to do it for 40 hours/week for 2 years!!!!!!!!

How can this be possible, bear in mind DD1 is 3.10 so a handful already. I have to fit in DD2's therapy around DD1's schooling and my mum helping on days she's not in pre-school. How do you juggle it all?????

Portage is probably using TEACCH.

Erm difficult to find an easy to read ABA manual. The easiest way to learn it is to actually go on a workshop- but they can be pricey. There used to be a do it yourself website but I can't remember the name. Let me think...

gah can't find it, but did find this No idea what it's like. Let me continue looking!

another useful website about VB (a type of ABA).

How about 'Help Us Learn' by Kathy Lear?

You don't have to do 40 hours imo. Growing Minds, who designed our programme (mainly ABA at first but now more Floortime) are very much of the opinion that the quality and intensity of the work done is more important than the number of hours. And, again imo, you have to take account of your other children, your partner and your life. I think it's brilliant that you've started with your DD so young and are already thinking about all the possibilities.

here you are. I've got this and it's pretty user friendly.

Thank you sphil- that was the one I was trying to remember! I need to review it so I can find it again.

Thank you Sphil and Jimjams, I've bookmarked those web sites so I'll have a read through this evening (when I'm not surrounded by kids).

Another question I'm afraid, what is TEACHH that Portage uses?

It's so hard to decide what the best route is for DD2. I currently do about 2 sessions of floortime a day, and she does respond well to this. Her eye contact and interaction has really improved and I don't know what has happened but last week she couldn't say a thing, she can now say 6 words (not very clearly but I know what she's saying as she's either pointing or looking at whatever it is). I don't know why, or what therapy or technique has helped this but I'm chuffed to bits.

Hi Saker. I understand that you have to be trained to RDI - you can't just make it up in your kitchen ! Having said that, it still sounds similar. If I wanted the dish cleared and in the sink, it would be a lot easier to do it myself but we use it as a way to show him that we co operate to do things ( and hopefully use some language along the way). IRL ( In real life) it's a not a new approach just an internet acronym. I'm not sure why I put it now!

Cyber

I wasn't trying to imply what you were doing is not valid. It's just I wondered if it was more OT based. We also break stuff down into small units ie backward chaining for motor skills. RDI does involve training, but there's plenty that you can do anyway I'm sure.

Are there RDI videos on Youtube? I do like the RDI idea of regulation and basing your behavior on the adults around you. I saw a great RDI video involving dropping beads into a cup! Did I dream that? I think the idea was to watch the adult and then copy. I think this is a great idea for autistic kids and is something that ds1 could do.

My own personal POV is that Floortime suits the less able and RDI suits the more able. Language wise. I know that you can do RDI without language but I think it is hard to progress through the levels unless language kicks in. Somewhere Gutstein does say on his website that if language doesn't kick in then you need to use something else to teach it (Floortime says the same).

Floortime is more OT based than RDI (which is another reason why I think it suits the less able and why ds1 desperately needs it!).

I am not aware of any RDI videos on Youtube. They are mostly available on the central depository but this is only accessible to people signed up with a consultant. You can do OT type stuff with RDI - you can do most things with RDI but the point I was trying to make was that the actual endpoint of the activity was less important than the doing, so it is not ideal if your main purpose is to teach a child to put on a shoe or something.

We do putting things into things like beads into cups, vegetables into pan, washing into machine - it's our staple RDI diet . It's unlikely it would be just that the child watched the adult then copied unless in turns. The idea would be that you are putting the beads in together and the child needs to understand your role and their role. There's lots of ways to do it e.g. you pass the bead to the child to put in the cup. Child passes it to you. Taking in turns, alternating beads. Doing it at same time. You do red beads, child does blue etc etc. Depends on the objective. So if working on co-regulation, you might take it in turns, spotlighting times when the process breaks down - e.g in our case when Ds2 starts looking out the window instead of picking up his beads, I would say something like "when you have had your turn, then I can go". Or simply coughing or making noise can work. Again it depends on the child and where you are at. But the idea is that the child realises that this process cannot be completed without you both playing your part. You try to do it lots of times in lots of ways until they get the idea. I find it helps to video it and show Ds2 videos of when it's successful to reinforce the idea.

I know what you mean about language but honestly it can be more of a problem than a help. We never get through an activity without Ds2 distracting himself by talking, asking pointless questions like what time is it? (considering he doesn't understand the answer). We are constantly instructed to keep language to a minimum. It may be later down the line, language would be useful with RDI and I think some ability to understand what is being said probably helps when starting an activity, but there's nothing that we have done yet where the ability to speak is needed.

INteresting what you say about video - this is something I want to try with ds1 (showing him video of himself doing it correctly- it's meant to work).

Imitation is needed for RDI though isn't it?

I suspect I saw the video on the central depository at a friend's house.

Here's some RDI on You tube I will watch for ideas.