I just don't want DS to go to a special school

[drspouse]

I just don't.
That's been my feeling all along and it's still my feeling.
School want him out, preferably yesterday.
They are stopping him from doing after school clubs (we think this is discrimination). We suspect they may stop him from going on outings too.
He has ADHD and is impulsive and not learning because he can't pay attention. He has a 1:1 and is awaiting an EHCP. School want us to find a special school NOW and name it in the EHCP (we can't even get appointments to see any before the panel meets).
There are 3 possible special schools, all independent, all a long drive, he gets carsick. They are all tiny and cover a huge age range so there will be max 3 children in his peer group and they won't live near us.
I just don't want to do this. I want him to be in his local, community school with his sister and his friends. School say he has no friends. That's why he gave his friend a huge hug in the playground this morning, I suppose, then. OK, it was a very overwhelming hug and I had to remind him to ask people first if they want a hug, but he says he has friends, and this particular boy has been his friend since Reception.

notgiving he does, but the sickness causes lots of anxiety even if he doesn't actually throw up, and how is it fair to do that daily?

grass that's hopeful and also we are thinking if we have a really good EHCP he may be a more attractive prospect to a different school.

Some children just can't cope with mainstream schools no matter how the school 'adapts'.

Hence primary that DS who has additional needs was excellent. Despite same excellent input DS2 now in special and so happy.

DD will be midway in mainstream specialist unit.

So whatever you might feel some children just need specialist education. That's a fact. I can't tell you if your son is one of those but the school he is in will never be right for him. Because they don't want him.

the school he is in will never be right for him. Because they don't want him.

Maybe not so much that they don't want him, more that they cannot fulfil his needs. His behaviour is obviously impacting on the other children as well as the teacher. They have tried, I think, but cannot make it work. She just doesn't have time to prioritise him when there are so many other children in the class who also need her attention. This is why they think SS would be the right thing. Small classes. Extra staff. People who have the time to prioritise his needs.

I think it's truer to say that they have not tried enough to fulfil his needs.
He has 1:1
If he needs a quieter environment - they should try and provide that.
In the classroom and at break time.
If he needs more teacher attention (beyond his 1:1) they should get a specialist teacher in more often.
They can get extra staff in at a mainstream school and they can allocate people to him rather than someone else.
They can get in extra therapy.
They just haven't.

They can't just provide all that unless it's recommended by a professional, in section F and fully funded via an EHCP. Schools don't have the budget to bring in extra teachers and provide separate rooms and therapy. You are incredibly lucky to have a 1:1 funded without an EHCP.

It's also worth thinking about how every action has a consequence. Being put in a quieter environment is one thing but the only way a MS school can do that is to remove him from the classroom (with the classic teach in the corridor by a TA approach) Which is fine in principle but then it's happening all the time and your son is being segregated and excluded. Social interactions are reduced and peer relationships reduce and breakdown. Then when you go back into the classroom, it's even more noisy and distracting because you aren't use to it and you feel left out even more because the children aren't used to you. Is that what is best for your son? Your school might think he needs smaller classes where his needs can be met but he can still be part of a class and have a sense of belonging and have a peer group.

It doesn't sound like the school have done everything but maybe they don't have the funds or the skills or the will.

Im not sure a lack if will is a valid reason, and lack of skill is a bit lame - it doesnt take much skill to say pupil needs an OT lets get an assessment done, write it into the ehcp and then make sure the OT visits. the point of a ehcp is to get funds to do whats needed to support the child in a school of thier choice. schools can apply for emergency funds before its in place. Now, i get school finding is a nightmare but schools cant use 'i cant be botherered and theres no money' to avoid putting in place an effective ehcp as an excuse. Otherwuse all costly children will be turfed out.
I totally agree with you about 1:1 in a corridoor though.

Which is why he's getting an EHCP. I have already said that.

Grasspigeons - none of it is an excuse. They absolutely should be doing their very best but it's clear from the information is that they aren't. OP it's worth putting complaints in to governors etc to ensure this doesn't go unnoticed. In our case our very inclusive school turned very quickly when the funding got cut. They stopped supporting anything they didn't have funds for because they couldn't, no matter how much they wanted to. Most of the SEN children with EHCPs have been moved on and no other MS will take them as they are having the same problems and know they can't give the children what they need so it's better to say no than say yes and do a bad job.

OP, yes, but until the EHCP is finalised and money is attached to it and being received by school, they are funding it all out of their budget. Even a 1:1 for 6 months probably costs more than the 6k SEN budget pot the school gets. Have you got specialist teachers, separate rooms, full time 1:1 and all his therapy needs specified in his EHCP? If so, then the funding will have to be given to the school to deliver it and maybe they will be more amenable to keep him in the school? In our experience the funding doesn't cover the needs in MS and you need to go to tribunal which takes months and money still isn't being received by school. The system is broken!

yes the system is broken - that I can agree with 100%

lots of failed families fighting the system

That's great. But you have to be realistic about the amount a mainstream environment can adapt and I say that as a disabled person myself (autism, deaf and fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis so a wheelchair user).

Absolutely every reasonable adjustment in their power should be made, but they can't quieten classrooms beyond a certain level without removing your child from them so then the benefit of social interaction is lost.

In a school with classes of 3 he'd get more interaction than in a corridor or room on his own. My son had and is developing social skills at special school. Yes he's delayed but that's his disability not the peer group. There are ten in a class, son has 1:1 and the ratio is 1:2 with the others so lots of adults to model social interaction to the kids and guide them.

You won't get that level of input in a mainstream school, even with an EHCP. It's just not possible.

Son also has LDs which may not be the case with yours so the curriculum is ok for him at the school he's at (working to a year 3 level in year 9 but that's way beyond what we thought he would ever do).

It may be worth going to see these schools to see if they change your view. Going to my son's primary and now secondary I just knew it was right - he started in a mainstream and it damaged him - I wish I hadn't done it now but I had a negative perception of special schools before too.

There is absolutely absolutely a place for special schools. I don't think mainstream is anywhere near inclusive enough by the way, they could do far, far better but special schools need to exist for kids like my son.

Again I don't know your son. If special school isn't right then you know best. But I'd have said my son isn't the sort of kid for special school too before I visited one.

Are you able to move into a different area? It looks like your spouse is a dr, would there be an issue with them finding a new job?

WE ARE LOOKING AT SCHOOLS.
Thank you for reading that.

We can't move, I'm the one with the doctorate (not medical, username is a joke because I don't use the title except to point out to DH that I have it)
and my industry is hard to find jobs in. It would be such a gamble too - moving for a school we don't have a place in, that could be full, not work for him, he might not get funding in his new LEA etc etc.

He's currently IN the classroom and doing better than he was outside (on the advice of the specialist teacher), but needs breaks, they say they can't do this beyond the end of KS1.

It's his social skills we worry about most and apparently he can't cope with all 300 children out in the playground at the same time (doh).

My son absolutely isn't a classic SS child either. Because as a society we're conditioned to think that all children unless severely impaired physically or cognitively go to MS. In reality, MS have to cater for the highest common denominator, which is non SEN children and they aren't miracle workers who can whip up new classes or new teachers and specialist TAs and therapy out of nothing. That isn't their core business. Most SEN children are given a rough deal but for many they get through ok. For lots of SEN children it's the worst possible environment. I think we'll see a huge turn in the next few generations where many more specialists school are created for lots of different types of needs because the resources aren't there in MS any more (bit of a false economy!) but really all children deserve to go to school to an environment that is right for them. For my son, he needs quiet, calm and predictable but absolutely not kept away from everyone to do so. He needs peers and to see going in to a classroom as normal. He needs to be taught by a teacher, not a babysitting TA. He needs to be included in a way that is normal for everyone not in a special way for him because he's different.

What environment do all the professionals think he needs? Not you or his school but all the trained professionals who have submitted to the EHCP - that's where the most impartial info would lie.

The EP thinks he has a learning disability but admits he wasn't easy to assess so she isn't confident her assessment is accurate (we think it's rubbish frankly, he's having more assessments from a clinical psychologist though). She didn't recommend a school.
Nobody else has commented on what school he needs. I'm not sure who else would.

Professionals normally are loathed to comment. We had a very good relationship with our specialist teachers and they admitted they were on the fence about where youngest should go but to try a year in mainstream. After a few months they said to me it might be advisable to find another mainstream. We went to specialist in the end thank god.

For a lot of kids there is no inbetween school. Mainstream cater for the common denominator. Some are more flexible than others. I think you just have to pick the closest you can find. With qualifications we’ve always felt they can be done at any time. They can be retaken. The main thing for my kids is to find their place in the world and t be happy. Much more can be achieved by them when they’re happy.

I understand your frustration.

I understand your frustration and fear OP.

I removed my child at the start of yr3. I then home educated her for almost 2 years, whilst we got her diagnosed, an EHCP and tried to undo the damage caused by being in an inappropriate environment.

I took two years (unpaid) family leave from my job and she returned to school (Yr5) last September because she wanted to be part of a school community and financially we needed me to work again. It was both the hardest and most rewarding two years I have spent. She has no specific learning needs, in fact she has an extremely high IQ identified as part of the EHCP process. But she was incapable of demonstrating her abilities in a mainstream school environment.

Our initial plan was to return to mainstream, but frankly we were appalled on how bad the situation had got in terms of lack of funds, junior class sizes well above 30, tick box mentality focus on doing things to meet OFSTED requirements as opposed to children’s needs, high teacher burnout/turnover and the reduction in the number of available classroom support. We visited over 15 primary schools and met some fabulous and not so fabulous SENCOs, but even with a funded EHCP, they either didn’t want her or we didn’t want them. Independent specialist schools would have meant boarding and moving is not an option for us.

Someone in the home ed group we went too mentioned the special school she is now in. I had ruled it out due to her academic abilities, but I did go to visit it. I cried all the way home, because I knew I had to let go of my beliefs about mainstream and integration and because I realised that for the first time in a long time I was in an educational environment where her needs mattered to them and where teachers understood the reasons behind the behaviour and how to deal with them in a positive manner.

It is not totally without its problems, but it is a million times better than before. She is beginning to develop social and emotional skills and above anything she feels wanted there. Is she having her academic needs met fully there?, no. But we are focusing on the now and we fill her non school time with learning opportunities.

Does she copy some of the behaviours she sees, yes sometimes she does but she is also learning what is appropriate and how to regulate better. She also is now more able to interact with NT children she meets in out of school sport and music activity clubs. Before, when she was in her primary school, she so was so stressed in clubs she could not cope with them (or them with her behaviour). But she wants to go to them now because she is being taught about how to function in a group environment.

My child's brain is wired differently and that means she needs to be taught differently too. She needs to be taught explicitly things that typically developing children learn by osmosis. These are things that mainstream generally don’t ‘teach’, such as how to form and keep friends, how to communicate socially, how to understand the difference between playful teasing and bullying, how to understand other people’s feelings and views, how to work in a group situation and how to be part of a wider society.

I had to learn to lean in and see my child. As a family we are beginning to find peace again. I hope you find your peace OP.

That is a positive story tomorrow
At least with DS being both behind academically and disruptive he does get extra help currently!

Tomorrow that was beautifully written.

OP, I've sort of bowed out of this thread as I don't think your taking our advice on board. You don't necessarily have to agree with us but I don't feel your being open to suggestions.

But I wish you and your DS the best of luck

notgiving I don't think anyone is taking our situation on board. All the suggestions, apart from ones we are already doing, are impractical.

Hope the panel goes well today

The model letter i referred to was on the ipsea - get support - model letters - model 3.

It may be past that now, so you might need the model letter below.

Just make sure the LA have in writing your preference for him to remain at current school.

Thanks, I'm still waiting for the updated version and if the support he needs isn't on there (as he needs it right now) I guess it will be a tribunal.

(Now I'm all impatient waiting to hear!)