I just don't want DS to go to a special school

[drspouse]

I just don't.
That's been my feeling all along and it's still my feeling.
School want him out, preferably yesterday.
They are stopping him from doing after school clubs (we think this is discrimination). We suspect they may stop him from going on outings too.
He has ADHD and is impulsive and not learning because he can't pay attention. He has a 1:1 and is awaiting an EHCP. School want us to find a special school NOW and name it in the EHCP (we can't even get appointments to see any before the panel meets).
There are 3 possible special schools, all independent, all a long drive, he gets carsick. They are all tiny and cover a huge age range so there will be max 3 children in his peer group and they won't live near us.
I just don't want to do this. I want him to be in his local, community school with his sister and his friends. School say he has no friends. That's why he gave his friend a huge hug in the playground this morning, I suppose, then. OK, it was a very overwhelming hug and I had to remind him to ask people first if they want a hug, but he says he has friends, and this particular boy has been his friend since Reception.

The main problems are refusal (this was one of the biggest problems but this is getting less), lack of concentration, not socialising/communicating, hyperactivity (running round the room, getting up and down.
He is defiant (though less so when there ISN'T an immediate consequence - he used to try and go up his behaviour chart as quickly as possible but they've ditched it thankfully) and he has hurt a child (mainly pushing/elbowing) 3 times in 2 years (so we're not talking daily) and in the last couple of terms I think he's spat at his 1:1 once and one other incident.
They are framing this as "verge of exclusion".
For us, the most worrying thing is him not playing with the other children and starting to notice this. School have said they have tried lots of interventions for this "but the playground is too busy for him".

(Oh and these problems have led to lack of achievement. I don't think he is unable to achieve as a general thing - I think this is a result).

Does he have an IEP? What exactly have they tried all ready? Both of mine are very wilful. Sometimes defiance is making control because of extreme anxiety. I’d be looking at what they have in place already. Is there a visual timetable? My dd in mainstream the school felt she didn’t need one. But she kept asking what was happening next and for how long but because she wasn’t acting out they assumed she was okay. In early years we had lots of acting out. Because of lack of structure, lack of impulse control. What are they using to help him concentrate? Does he have a now and next board? What county are you? As I would check your local offer. We have specialist teachers here who are from county who can go in and offer advice. Is your school an academy or an LA school? I’ve found academies so much worse.

Drspouse - its such a tough situation isnt it. We are in school limbo. Everyschool has rejected our boy on paper.
A couple of things to consider are:

is your child actually gaining anything out of his current school or is it entrenching some negatives that he will need to unlearn?
we found school taught my child a very specific negative set of behaviours by rewarding them. He has sensory issues and when he became overwhelmed he would leave the classroom, but he wouldnt go to the sanctioned safe space but to somewhere the school considered a risk. They then would exclude him. He went home to a nice calm environment. They never tackled the sensory issue. But they really taught him to run off if you overwhelmed as it works and this has caused a big problem getting him to a new school. They dont want a runner. So watch out for school reinforcing negative behaviour.
Also social issues - the gap really widens as they get older so what is fine in reception is very hard in y3 - but clearly the playground being too busy is solevable. My school opens up a nurture room with a TA and children go in and play in a much calmer environment. The TA has social group training. They get to bring a friend. There is normally 12-15 of them. They also get a bit of the out door area cordoned off. This is ehcp friendly. Will access a quiet area at lunch time for supported play focussing on socual skills 3 times a week.

Finally, the recieved wisdom here is early intervention is best and children starting specialist units young are more likely to move to mainstream for secondary.

It is sadly all about funding.

is your child actually gaining anything out of his current school or is it entrenching some negatives that he will need to unlearn?

It's really hard to say!
If we had an obvious alternative school I'd be really happy for him to move. And we are looking at some distant independent special schools and they may be fabulous (they aren't on paper but who knows) but this doesn't take away the fact that he's 7 and gets carsick.
School say "they've tried everything" but they have not clearly: I posted on the other thread (about PRUs) that the PRU specialist teacher thought of some new things to try despite saying "Oh it's such a good school they will have tried everything".
They have definitely NOT tried having a smaller play area for him and some friends/selected companions.

the recieved wisdom here is early intervention is best and children starting specialist units young are more likely to move to mainstream for secondary.
Here unfortunately it seems to be "they will be so happy in special school they will stay" which means a) they get no qualifications and b) the special schools are not preparing them for transition back to mainstream, they are preparing them for the next stage of special school.

Alwaysgrey they have started using Now and Next but only after the PRU person came in. Yes, it is mainly about anxiety but they see it as defiance.
I'm sure he's not the only one who finds the playground busy!

It doesnt sound like they have really tried even basic best practice.

Special provision for academically able children is a massive failure in this country. The state dont run any in my county.
I went to an open day at our cloest private special school for academic children. There were 50 families there for our year group. They are full, it was the waiting list open day. 50 families - thats a whole cohort with no option.

Here unfortunately it seems to be "they will be so happy in special school they will stay" which means a) they get no qualifications and b) the special schools are not preparing them for transition back to mainstream, they are preparing them for the next stage of special school

Again, you are are talking about your preconceived ideas of special schools. Which are true to an extent. But forget about that. Think about what your child needs now. What is he going to lose out more ? Children are able to catch up academically but for social,attention, impulsivity... that takes years of therapy, hard work, specialist support to in order for the child to become somewhat adequate. Not only that as children get older it will be difficult to implement strategies then as opposed to when they're young.

If your worries about academics then get a tutor.

But, it's your child, no one can tell you what to do otherwise.

No, that's not my preconceived idea - that's what the LEA SENDCO and the school SENCO have told me, plus what information is available on qualifications gained by the pupils at the special schools. I assumed that schools a) prepared children to move back to mainstream and b) offered a full range of qualifications for pupils who were struggling with behaviour/emotion but were mid range (I wouldn't call him able but not LD either). But they want to keep all their pupils long term (especially the independent ones) apparently, and they themselves don't offer any evidence of qualifications.

He is so far from being able to engage with a tutor it's not funny, at the moment.

If in the future e.g. secondary he was at a special school where they didn't expect any qualifications, but getting tutoring at home for qualifications, what would be the point of him going to school? How could he do a full curriculum with a tutor and go to school full time? If that's what you're meaning?

My dd doesn’t like the playground. It’s too busy, noisy, unstructured and confusing. She plays small world inside with another child who also doesn’t like the playground. The attitude sounds sadly very familiar to our school. You need a school with an inclusive attitude. Have you visited other mainstreams?

In my experience with our LA and senco they don’t know anything. The LA also have a loose understanding of the law and frankly these days don’t trust a word of what they say.

My youngest is in a special school. Those that are able take GCSEs. A few students also dip into the mainstream school next door.

Your son is still young. Early years for my dd in mainstream was a huge learning experience. It wasn’t easy. In year 1 I visited specialist schools but was told they wouldn’t be able to take her as she was too able. Now she’s only got a few years left in mainstream primary. It hasn’t been easy.

I also think as well when you have kids you expect them to follow a certain path. Specialist school looks scary. The setup, the kids is so far from what you know or want for your child. The issues you’ve mentioned are very common to adhd. But with the right support and the backing of a good mainstream he might be best suited in a mainstream. Sadly I’ve found there’s not a lot in the middle. Mainstream can be tough but the specialist schools are top specialist.

Have you visited other mainstreams?

We visited some others when we were choosing a primary school, and this was the best by miles in terms of awareness of difference of the ones we looked at.
But as I've posted above, we rang one or two others and one of them, instead of ringing us back, rang the current school. I have no idea what the current school said to them, but we are now in the position where even ringing another mainstream means that we risk the current school a) knowing we are looking at mainstreams and telling us yet again that he needs to move, permanently, to a special school and b) telling the other school he will never cope in mainstream.

The LA also have a loose understanding of the law and frankly these days don’t trust a word of what they say. We've already worked this out too!

The LA is not a good source of info. Too biased.

I completely understand not wanting to go to a school where your child cant get qualification. Its one of our criteria too but we have come round to its no point having a qualification if he hasnt learned social skills, emotional regulation and so on. This area needs actively teaching with peers at a similar level of emotionsl development with therapist.

I really think you should properly visit the most suitable special school in person as you might get a very different idea of what it could achieve. It is possible to get tutors in to the school day to strech more able children, or share between a special school and mainstream one but that needs to be in the ehcp. Its just knowing it can be done thats half the problem. Noone tells you or wants to put the work or money in.

Im not trying to say you are wrong btw - just broaden the thinking.

What I meant dr is that the purpose of Special schools isn't to get your child mainstreamed in order for them to go back to a mainstream school. No. The purpose of special schools is to provide support for students, who wouldn't get such type of support in mainstream school and for them to learn and work in a safe environment at their own space.

However, the support that you will get from being at a special school will give you the coping mechanisms... strategies will be enough to be mainstreamed back etc.

However, I feel your allowing this to colour your judgement and your not thinking about what your child needs now.

There are a few special schools in which the ultimate aim is for your child to go back to mainstream. But these are usually dyslexic schools... or other types.

There's low academic achievements in special schools. I agree. That's why I said you need to be very choosy. However, I do understand that it can be difficult to create a curriculum in which the students can reach to their best of ability vs balancing their own individual needs. It's a balance act and some school may provide good therapeutic support but low academic and some schools may provide high academic achievement by low therapeutic support.

Yes, I will get a tutor for my DS. Everybody is different, some parents believe that education should be left to the schools xyz. I don't believe that. I do not trust schools as it is and I will pay and provide extra support for my child if he needs it.

I really think you should properly visit the most suitable special school in person as you might get a very different idea of what it could achieve.
Where did I say we weren't willing to visit schools? We are visiting schools.
I'm just not convinced they will have some magic hidden things that don't show up on their websites (and that they will magically be close to our house).
And we have been totally railroaded into this by the school - because they are insistent they want him gone RIGHT NOW (preferably yesterday) and that if we don't find another school for him they will be excluding him. They wanted a special school named on his draft EHCP which goes to panel tomorrow; they told us this 3 days before the Easter holidays, when we'd already booked in the earliest appointments we could at special schools, i.e. next month.
And we can't see any other schools because the current school is telling them all DS will never cope in mainstream, so the other schools won't even talk to us.

But they want to keep all their pupils long term (especially the independent ones) apparently

That's true- in some cases. But that's why you get a sound specific written EHCP. Don't take your eye off the bat and keep a track of your child's progress.

Urgh, that school sounds horrible. I personally wouldn't want my child to stay there. But anyway, if they exclude your child you can tell them it's disability discrimination and pursuer his if necessary. As you have no choice of school yet, name this particular school, let the school out in the recommended interventions and in the next annual review, you would have hopefully found a school and bring that to panel... or you can always appeal. But that's a slog process

I do t think specialist schools prepare children to go back to mainstream. They give them support, extra input, therapy etc to enable children to develop skills that they can't develop in MS because it's not the right environment. If those skills develop and the child becomes ready and suited to MS they move back. No 1 person had a say in that, there's so many factors.

In the nicest way, you can't know what all the SS in your area do or don't do based on what some people have said at the LEA (who never leave their office). You can only know your personal experience when your child with their needs is at one. My sons SS looks on paper to have poor academic outcomes at GCSE. Some people don't feel it's a priority and others go to nearby MS schools to do more (they do 8/9 GCSEs there) At 8 my son is gifted and they're talking about bringing tutors in to enrich his curriculum as they have done before. SS are much more about what each child needs and not about the highest common denominator (of which our children are not!)

It sounds like your heart is set on mainstream for him but it's clear the current school is not for him. You need an inclusive school but I think due to funding cuts etc they are becoming less and less tolerant all round. I don't want my SEN child to be a money issue, but that's what they saw him as and they were an inclusive school who had to move a lot of children on due to funding cuts.

It is what it is and you have to look at what your son needs to thrive at the age he is now and nothing else. The rest falls into place as it comes.

you can't know what all the SS in your area do or don't do based on what some people have said at the LEA (who never leave their office)

I can look at their websites though and see that they only work with 11+ or children with hearing impairment or PMLD or ASD, none of which my son has.
So yes, I do know that none of the local special schools are any use for him. We are only, currently, looking at independent schools miles away.

Also - you could deregister from school to cut the current school out the process and find a new school in your own time as a home ed child. Any new school wouldn't necessarily contact the old one and it might be a clean slate?

I think you're only going to take from this what you want to hear and have your feelings of hurt and frustration validated, which I understand. I was you a few months ago and posted something very similar.

I wish you all the best.

I can see you are very distressed.

I certainly wasnt suggesting you werent willing or trying. I am trying to be supportive as someone who has literally just negotiated an ehcp and been turned away from every mainstream school. We also found schools wouldnt talk to us and refused permission to let us visit. We too couldnt see any special schools until after the deadline so we have an final ehcp with no provion named and now habe to appeal to get them to name a provision but at least we have time to look into it now

The thing you cant see from a website is how the staff are and what the other children are like and whether they would be flexible (eg afternoons with them, morning at current school) no it wont move closer but i find it helpful to know exactly what i am fighting for or against. Ive found websites useless at reflecting the school.

Im a bit confused where you are in the process - you have recieved a draft and have had an opportunity to respond and its gone back to panel to review changes?

Have you seen the IPSEA letter where you inform the LA of the school you want. It has some quote about section 39 in it. You can name the mainstream school he is at and send that letter.

This has been the most stressful time ive had so sorry you are going through it too. It sounds like you are headed to a tribunal

you could deregister from school to cut the current school out the process and find a new school in your own time as a home ed child.

There's no prospect of us home educating even temporarily - though we could of course decline to tell any new school that he's been at the current school, either as a child in school or as a home ed child. I'm not really sure what this would gain us as even though the current school is not helpful, they do have some information that AT THE RIGHT POINT and if not accompanied by their opinions, would be helpful for a new school.

Currently, we can only take at face value what the schools are saying about themselves and what the LEA is saying about the schools. I'm not sure how we can trust any information from anyone if the schools say one thing but their stats say another, or if the LEA tells us about lack of integration back from a certain school?

And there's still the issue of travel - how can I send my 7yo to be sick every day on the way to and from school?

whether they would be flexible (eg afternoons with them, morning at current school)
We have asked them, and they won't, but also as they are all at least 45 minutes away this would be impractical. We asked about a part time place a day or two a week - they don't do part time.

We had the draft EHCP over the weekend, it said things like "by the end of KS2 he will be able to read books with correct intonation" (he's in Y2 and could read Pink band books with correct intonation currently... so, what books do they mean? What's he supposed to be doing in KS1 and Y3 and etc. etc.?).

There were so many things wrong with it. I covered it in notes and it's gone back, panel is tomorrow with no school named (I understood this was correct if we wanted mainstream, or if we have no special school in mind). It hasn't been to panel yet, I don't know if they will urgently send us a version tonight with a few changes made or just send an edited (or not edited) version to panel tomorrow.

And there's still the issue of travel - how can I send my 7yo to be sick every day on the way to and from school?

You'll find a way. I'm sure your DS goes on holidays, trips out outside your local catchment area ?

Looking at schools via websites does no justice. I went and looked at schools personally. You don't get the same feel from looking at the website as when you do in person. I remember I looked at a school which looked Amazing from their website but seeing it in person- it was dreadful.

Look on the Good School Guide. It shows reviews from parents who have attended such and such school.

Well good luck at panel. I dont know if its any consolation but remember schools can be very negative to try and increase their funding. So they can be very 'its special school or exclusion, cant meet need' then parent requests them anyway. School says 'we cant do it we told you this' then the banding of funding increases a hige nothh and suddenly school can do it. Then when its all sorted they get on with it.