Dangerous DD? **Trigger warning**

[WoofWoofMooWoof]

Posting here for traffic - I am at the end of my tether .

DD1 (10) has mild autism and has always been a bit difficult. However, lately her behaviour has gone off the scales. She starts screaming at me in the morning before I even get out of bed. She hurts DD2 (and has hit me in the past).

She can be a screaming, shouting banshee for hours, and then, suddenly, turn into this little ray of sunshine that giggles, laughs and tells us how much she loves us. Five minutes later she'll hit DD2 again and start stropping and screaming. I've started to wonder if she isn't bipolar or psychotic - and I feel like a bad mother for even wondering this .

She constantly lies, and seems to genuinely believe her own lies. She's started cutting herself because apparently it will make me happy. She threatens to kill herself a number of times a week.

Last night things reached a whole new level, and she started threatening to kill DD2. After hours of screaming she told me she definitely will kill DD2. She spoke to her 'D'F on the phone and he managed to calm her down. 30 minutes of relative peace, and then the shouting started again. She refused to go to bed, and said again she was going to kill herself, and it was all my fault.

I'm ashamed to say I did something cruel, but I was truly at my wits' end and I am exhausted to the very depths of my soul. I came out of my room and told her I was going to kill myself. She tried to stop me going into the kitchen (as DD2 always tries to do when DD1 tries to get a knife). I pushed past her, got my biggest, sharpest knife, pressed it to my wrist and asked her if she wanted to watch (as she always asks me). Quoting her verbatim, I said that she hates me anyway, will be happy if I'm dead, and be rid of me. She was in hysterics, screaming that I'm her mum, she loves me and she didn't want me to kill myself.

She cried in her room for a while, then came to me and we had a cuddle. She said she felt very very scared, and I told her that's the way DD2 and I feel every time she does it. She promised to not do it again.

I don't feel proud of myself at all, but I do think (hope) that on some level I got through to her. I am going to take her to the GP as I think she needs a psyc evaluation. The thing is, nobody believes me when I tell them what she's like. They see this beautiful girl with the angelic blonde curls with impeccable behaviour (at school anyway), and they think I'm making it all up.

Has anyone else been in this position? Any words of advice? Tell me off for being cruel, anything. I'm feel like I'm losing my DD and I want to stop any more damage being done.

Only a giant arsehole would criticise you for your actions. Youve done enough to yourself on that front so don't need anymore. I understand and sometimes I think it's good for our DC to see we are only human too and have our limits, fears, frustrations and anger.

Please see your gp and start to make steps towards getting some support.

I would contact CAMHS directly given she has threatened to kill herself and others. They might have a different route to access their services if she is considered a danger to herself/others. I think some services have on-call or crisis staff who might be able to talk things through and give you advice about how to access their services.

You poor thing. I so understand where you're coming from. I've been pushed to mimicking DS's behaviour at times in the faint hope it will show him what he is like. But generally it doesn't work. What is more effective is videoing it and playing it back to them. In your DD's case, maybe also to the doctor?

Hello love. Not judging from here either - you sound exhausted. It IS exhausting. I totally understand the mood swings - am facing that with my son - I try to preempt and deescalate but sometimes it's just like a switch with no apparent trigger.
I hope you are getting a few hours sleep in now. I will follow the thread with interest and will also have your back if anyone posts who hasn't been in your shoes.
Most of us need a 'safe space' to vent. There are some wonderful women on the Teens with Anxiety Support Thread - I am sure you would be welcome.

Speaking from experience here..what you did in that moment might have worked but long term it won't have helped. Next time she is lashing out she won't have the ability to remember it.
I feel for you though Ds14 has ASD and suspected PDA he talks about killing is ad himself all of the time, it is fucking draining.

I've just been on an parental autism course - lots of us with kids who are apparently 'coping' in mainstream school had a horrible time around Y5/6-7/8: anecdotally, it seems like a particularly tough time as our kids move into adolescence and a new set of challenges. We had 3 (out of 5 in that age group) who had threatened suicide - of those 2 were apparently 'fine'/'perfect students' in school. So just to reassure you that pattern is not usual, esp in girls with autism. As others have said, no judging here, but it is a moment to acknowledge that you need some help: I'd be trying to talk to both GP and school as a matter of urgency to see what support is available for both of you (& your other dd, who is likely to benefit from some sibling support)

Get to the SN board. It sounds like this is part of her ASD.

Op, as someone who's been there I'll say please, please take care of yourself and your own mental health.

Make a doctor's appointment today.

My dd had a massive impact on my mental health which I'm still recovering from. Her screaming rages would go on for hours, days at a time and there wasn't a damn thing we could do other than let it past. She'd scream so long the lack of oxygen to her brain would cause her to hallucinate. I remember going to the shop one night, as I turned into the street I could hear the screams (( turned out her ds charger had broken )) if it hadn't been for her brother I would have thrown myself under a van that was going past. Crying children in shops would spark panic attacks and her poor brother is still in recovery years on. I honestly have been where you are now.

I'd finally had enough a few years ago (( was very suicidal by this point )) as and DD went into residential care. She was a lot older than your dd as in her teens but my only regret is not doing it sooner. It broke the cycle. It saved our relationship...........although if I'm honest I do harbour resentment. She stole her brothers childhood. And destroyed mealing the way.

You cannot carry on like this, her sister can't. You're all living in misery including your dd. Take action today, be it with school or whatever. Demand the help you're both entitled to.

Which one of you or DF has the most time to dedicate to this girl? The second child needs to go to which ever parent will cope least well. That’s what we’ve had to do, it’s fucking awful but I had to do what was right for all of us

She would also be the same as your dd as in school and with certain people she would be fine. She'd gate it if her mask slipped and would refuse to see that person.

After years of hearing ' well she's fine here ' they got a massive shock when she was no longer at home and couldn't take her frustration out on me. She had no choice but to do it in school. They finally saw what if been living with.

Hi all,
Just dropping by to let you know that we've moved this to the special needs area of the site.

Posting as someone diagnosed with Bipolar 1, but also who has lots of experience with other people who have mental illnesses, I want to reassure you it does not sound like bipolar. Her moods would not swing that quickly. There are other conditions where these mood swings happen quickly, but it could be the autism.

I understand you were at your wits end and think we all do things that we regret, but would urge you to seek the help of your GP but also maybe specific support from an autism charity or group who knows and understands autistic behaviour. For any child, the feeding back of emotion in a way they can contain is important. If they feel you can’t deal with their behaviour then they feel more out of control and lost and that can feed into self harm etc as they try to process it themselves. Of course, that’s easy for me to write but not easy at all in practice, especially with a child who has autism. Parenting support from a group or course who knows how to safely manage behaviour specifically for those with autism could be a way for you to go as the GP may not have the specialist knowledge required (CAHMS may not either though they should) and you may end up being given inappropriate advice. That said, they are worth a try to see if they do have information around ASD and how to help.

Being a mum to a child like this is hard (I have 2 with ASD), I think we get to the point where we will try anything to get them to change a behaviour and this is what you did, I have been there many times and felt bad afterwards but I was at breaking point and wanted my child to react, to stop the behaviour and to make life in our household easier, sometimes it has worked other times not.

I think it’s hard for people to judge if they have not lived it. Of course any threat of harm or suicide should be taken seriously but most threats like this are to get attention or the outcome they want, it’s pretty common with ASD, ADHD and PDA, it’s hard to know how to react or how not to react in that situation. I hope you are getting professional help for your dd and for yourself, it’s not easy. Don’t be too hard on yourself. 10 is also the age my dds started puberty and at 11 their periods, so hormones are all over the place at that age.

Oh OP my heart goes out to you and your family!

What is the situation between you and your DCs dad? Does he live with you or are you separated? If you are separated could you (for a short time) let your younger DD stay with him? Removing her from the situation may help as your older DD seems to hold some resentment towards her during her angry moments. Hopefully this would give you all a bit of a breather as you’ll know younger DD will be away from the anger and it might allow older DD some time to feel more secure with you.

As someone who’s parent is bipolar and who I lived with for years before diagnosis, I agree that it doesn’t sound like this is what she has. The mood swings do not happen as quickly as what you are saying your DD does. I’m no medical expert though so I could be wrong.

I definitely think you need to speak to a GP as soon as you can, you need help for you all and maybe they can help you learn techniques as to how to calm your DD down quicker and to a point where she isn’t lashing out at you.

What you did wasn’t ideal but I suspect you are beating yourself up over this. You need to try and release any guilt you may have over this as it won’t help any of you long term. Holding onto it could stop you acting rationally should an episode like this arise again

Hi all, and thank you so much for all your replies. She didn't want to go to school today, so said she had thrown up (or else made herself sick). I can't really believe anything she says . She was screaming at me again before I'd even gotten out of bed. She then couldn't find her school uniform, so took DD2s school shirt and demanded DD2 take off her uniform and give it to her (DD1). Of course DD2 refused and all hell broke loose. Sigh.

To answer some questions: they go to their dad's every weekend. I said 'D'F, as he is an abusive narcissist, and DD1 learned a lot of her behaviour, ie the way she treats me, from him. They are twins, so splitting them up will be very difficult, as they do love each other very much. We've also just moved and it was a big change for them, so splitting them up and sending her to yet another new school will be very detrimental.

I was almost suicidal a few weeks back, and my GP called me in to have a chat about it. Unfortunately the girls were there (told them to stay in the waiting room but they kept coming knocking on the door wanting to know what we were talking about, so not much was discussed.

I will look into contacting CAMHS directly and will make a GP appointment today. Unfortunately 'our' GP only works Thursdays and Fridays, and I should really discuss this with the GP who will be working with her. I don't know if I can wait 'till Thursday though.

DD2 has been accepted by Young Carers, but we've moved to the the sticks, and the meeting place is almost an hour's drive away (almost everything is), and it's hard to get there.

As for the PP who suggested home ed - NO!! I need the break from her while she's at school.

I'm so tired - I actually had a dream about DD1 trying to kill DD2, me trying to stop her and her stabbing me. Can barely think straight right now after all the drama and an hour's sleep.

Oh, and DD2 is genuinely afraid of DD1 .

I've recently been on a course for parents of child with violent behaviour. It wasn't just for parents of children who had autism but nearly everyone in the group of around 50 had a child with autism or attachment issues. Its a bit taboo to admit our children have behaviour that is violent to us and themselves so seeing 50 other people was in itself reassuring. All the parents there were on the edge basically.

another day perhaps PM me and I will send some of the information across that might help. But today rest and ring the GP.

The only thing from the course I will mention now is having a plan for your other child when things are going wrong. So the speaker described having a basket with a drink, snack, phone charger, games etc and the other child knowing to pick that up and secure themselves somewhere safe.

I struggled a bit with that tip as I felt how awful for the child basically barricading themselves or going to a trusted friends but I've decided that having a plan is better than not really.

As for the incident - what's done is done. People don't understand the relentlessness . Definatley get some real help for youself.

Oh, and DD2 is genuinely afraid of DD1

This is heartbreaking, it really is. I feel the same. I don't know how to protect DD from DS without failing and alienating both. Do they have separate rooms. I'm trying to be strict on their only being allowed in the others room if they have permission and as soon as one says they want the other out, they have to comply. But mine are still smaller than yours and, if necessary, carryable.

Missed a ? there. But yes, DD spends far too much time in her room with the iPad - out of the way so I can deal with DS.

You know that bit on the plane where they say ‘Put your own mask on before helping others’? Remember that. Your daughters need you to guide them and you need to be equipped. Go gentle on yourself, see the gp and find out if you can get some support for your own needs as well as your DD.
It feels thankless but at some point you will get to a stage where you are confident that you are doing the best you can. Was at a workshop a while ago for teenagers and the research shows that getting it right about 30% of the time is all that’s needed, so the odd fuck up matters, but isn’t the end of the world. What’s important is getting to the point of knowing what the right thing actually is. It may take Ed psych assessments and CAHMS involvement, and you may need anti-anxiety meds yourself. It is a hill to climb but it only needs a step at a time. These SN threads here are stuffed full of the kind of people you won’t normally find in RL - people who DO understand exactly what it’s like, and who aren’t going to judge, not least because they’ve all been at the end of their tether themselves.

The big problem is the ex - I told him what happened. He replied saying that she's just causing drama, and by taking her to the GP I'm feeding into it, which will only make it worse. He also demanded to come with me to the GP so he can put his side across - which is that she's simply a misbehaving child.

The ex also flatly refuses to accept that she has ASD (had her ADOS assessment when she was 5).

I struggled a bit with that tip as I felt how awful for the child basically barricading themselves or going to a trusted friends but I've decided that having a plan is better than not really.

Approach it from a different angle: the other child knowing that you are thinking of them and giving them tools to keep them safe. You can leave little notes in the basket, change the snack or toy, etc. Always go them once things have settled, so they know you know IYSWIM.

WoofWoofMooWoof it can be extremely difficult to communicate with a person while they are overloaded with emotion or information. For whatever reason, your dd was in overload mode. What you did may actually have communicated with her. Cut through the overload fog in her head. Not that it's a technique you want to use, though! But it happened. You regret it. It's passed. No recriminations. Onwards.

As for the angelic school-child/diabolical home-child, it takes a huge amount of mental and emotional energy to 'behave' at school. So at home it all the pent-up emotions, unexpressed angers and anxieties are released. Is there somewhere at home she can have a safe cave, or a physical outlet? A blanket tent, a trampoline, a drawing corner, a pet to stroke?

Post on the SN boards here. There is so much support and information you can access through them.

Does she have an EHCP?

Does she have an EHCP?

No, she doesn't. She's highly intelligent, one of the top of her class, and her behaviour at school is very good.

I had a meeting with the class teacher, SENCO and the head teacher and explained what was going on. They're taking steps to support both DDs more. The GP is also referring her to CAMHS.