demand avoidant DS

[headache898]

To those parents with PDA kids/demand avoidant etc what do you do when your DC refuses to go to the toilet? It's bedtime. He's refused to go for a wee. I can't make him. He's 5 and was dry at night 1-2 months ago but with a few accidents. Generally ok. He's had a recent spate of wetting the bed even with a nighttime wee. Today he is very anxious, very demand avoidant. He's now asleep and I just know he's going to wet the bed. What shall I do? I did think to put on a nappy in his sleep. He's a v deep sleeper in the first 2hrs. And he refused to brush his teeth.. Any advice? Any negotiation/making a joke of it/racing him to it kind of incentives don't really work because of his speech delay/understanding.

Will he wee if you lift him onto the toilet while asleep? Apparently some children do, but mine don’t.

We make the bed with a sheet, then a waterproof sheet, then another sheet on top. If the children wet the bed, it’s pretty quick to change by stripping off the top 2 sheets and leaving the third in place.

We have eventually prevailed with wees before bed just by being persistent with it being part of the bedtime routine.

Tooth brushing is hard, but you really only need to do it once a day and it can be any time. If bed time is fraught, could you do it after school, or at dinner time instead? Or just morning?

I'm not if this was the right call but because I've got a massive backlog of bedding laundry I stuck a nappy over his pjs. He ended up waking up 2hrs later as he always does and announced he didn't want a nappy. So I said ok, I'll take it off but let's go for a wee and he did and everything was fine. I do have the waterproof protectors but he always seems to wee on the darn duvet! Or if I'm really lucky, he'll slip into my bed when I'm asleep and wet my bed. With my double duvet. But I'm v pleased overall. It's amazing that he's making it through most nights. I just have to manage that pre bedtime wee showdown...

It was actually allowing my DS to sleep in my bed that finally embedded the night-time wee into his routine. I was just categorical that no wee meant no sleeping in my bed. He eventually realised he’d rather do a wee and the sleep with me than sleep in his bed. And then I had to tackle moving him to sleep in his own bed...

Part of our problem is that I don’t think my DS knows he needs a wee until he is painfully desperate. So asking him to go before bed when he thinks he doesn’t need a wee is hard.

My DS is 9 and has HFA with no language delay, though, so it’s probably easier than what you’re facing.

My daughter is very controlling and demand avoidant it's important that our kids get used to the fact that they aren't in charge before they are physically too big to control. I tell my daughter what is going to happen that way it is a fact not a request eg it's time to brush your teeth now, then follow that up quickly with an option eg you can use the red tooth brush or the blue. This way what you want to happen happens but they feel like they have made the decision.

@MumUnderTheMoon what do you then do if she still refuses to brush her teeth?

Sorry to hijack the thread but just wondering if refusing to go to the toilet is often an asd symptom? This is a big issue with DS (5) who is currently not diagnosed with anything. There are other issues too but if it weren't for the toilet thing we'd possibly be less inclined to pursue assessment. We are just starting down the 'concerning behaviours' route but we're still not sure if we are overreacting. Googling just throws up lots of stories about toddlers pooing in secret!

As for getting them to the loo, you have my sympathy - we can occasionally race him but if he doesn't want to go there is no forcing him.

Toilet issues are very common in kids with autism, they are normally either sensory or demand avoidance related.

@openupmyeagereyes she doesn't.

Or in DS2's case, demand avoidant AND sensory along with speech delay.
Funny how everyone is different. My oldest DS is HFA and has a bladder like a clamp. Only ever wet the bed once.

MumUnderTheMoon I see. Lucky you. That doesn’t sound particularly demand avoidant though if you ask her to do something and she does.

As I said I don't ask her to do anything I have learned that if I state requests as facts instead of as questions she doesn't feel as if I have made a demand and is therefore likely to do what I tell her.

Have you tried a dry wipe board with pictures showing the steps of his bedtime routine, the final step being him in bed with you reading him a story, or whatever you finally do before he sleeps? He can tick off the steps as he goes along but can't have the final one (story in bed for example), if he hasn't completed all the steps. Keep it simple ; 1) put on pyjamas 2) clean teeth 3) have a wee 4) bedtime story

Mumunderthemoon and your DD never resists when you lay it out as facts? That's really impressive. Unfortunately my DS just says no to pretty much everything, no matter how I say it. Im starting to find that silence works a lot better, because he will react over anything that comes out of my mouth. Even if it's in his favour

She does as she's told now and most resistance is passive and quickly managed. She's 11 and it's taken consistent strong handed parenting to get to this point. I never say no and change my mind, I never back down, I have to constantly deal with and stop her trying to control her environment and me. Demand avoidance, certainly for my dd, is about control. She wants to be in control at all times, and she doesn't see why she is any different to anyone in authority. Dd is manipulative rather than aggressive like all autism demand avoidance is a spectrum. We aren't impressive to be honest im exhausted but at least I'm exhausted from from being on at her 24/7 rather than tantrums at this point in time.

Oh yes, I can imagine that would be exhausting. It's so hard isn't it?