Very quiet baby - worrying myself silly

[Bornworrier]

Sitting here worrying myself silly in the middle of the night about my son. He is almost nine months old and he is just so quiet. He has a boisterous older brother, but ds2 just sits there watching him play. ds2 is a very happy little boy and is always smiling, sleeps well, is always grabbing my face, putting his hand in my mouth, loves cuddles, loves his toys and has not got a problem with eye contact. However, the only noises he makes are laughing, crying, occasional vowel sounds and a lot of "Mmmmm, mummm" noises when eating his food. I am worrying already that he has a language delay problem and have been looking at all your posts about autism and apraxia. Do you think it is too early to be worried? What else should I look for in order for it to be something like autism or apraxia?

Jimjams - Thanks for that info. I would be very interested in learning more about sensory issues. Do you know of any good websites I could look on. Thanks BH

Jimjams Agree with what you say about how provision is dished out. SALT were falling over themselves to deal with ds2 who lisped. In the end I dischaged him from their services as I felt they were implying he had difficulties he has not got. (he does not chat a great deal but he can do it). He was also picked up by school for their able children program and had Literacy in a class of 12 and two lessons a week in a class of 3. I am pleased that he has been offered these opportunities but it make me feel that my LEA value him much more than ds3 who we seem to have to fight the LEA to get provision for.

BH It is possible that your daughter may have traits of other conditions and as such maybe her needs are more complex. I find with my son that as he gets older his needs are increasingly complex and although he makes good progress in certain areas it highlights how uneven his development actually is.
Does that make any sense?

Crazy isn't it. Another awful example I have is of a little girl who has many many many probelms (she's 8 with autism, learning difficulties, uncontrolled epilepsy- which has caused the learning difficulties, kidney abnormalities, arthritis and now - as of this weekend- osteoporosis). She has had the same number of EEGs as my friend's NT boy who has had 3 seizures in his life. My friend with the NT son also has an autistic dd so she recognises the unfairness of it all. Shes been told she'll have to wait another year for an ambulatory EEG (whereas my friend's ds had one within a day). Hmmmmm not right is it? She's now been told that her epilepsy has been left uncontrolled for so long tat the brain damage has been done and its too late basically. She is at last on a waiting list to spend 2 weeks at GOSH.

BH most of the stuff I've read on the subject has been in the context of autism. You could search for "sensory integration". Also Stella Waterhouse's book " a positive approach to autism" explains it all - and looks much further afield than autism (includes dyspraxia and dyslexia for example). It's often available in libraries.

Mind you if ds2 does have verbal dyspraxia he'll be deemed "too difficult" to treat (or more to the point will take too long) so he'll get bugger all as well!

Jimjams - We have a lot of children with dyspraxia verbal and full, in dd's unit. A friend of mine's son was one of the most appropriate children for the placement this year, although his verbal dypraxia is quite severe. Until he got his placement in the unit he had regular SALT, every monday, with a specialist dyspraxia SALT. He will now get in on-site.

Sorry if that deosn;t make sense. i meant appropriate for the langauge unit.

Hi again - it's me with the very quiet baby who is still just as quiet and is now 10 months old. No babbling at all.
Took him for a hearing test this afternoon and he has partial hearing loss in one ear due to glue ear. His tympanogram (sp?) result was completely flat in his left ear and he is not hearing some mid range frequencies.
The Audiologist said that glue ear has no effect on babies speech development, says it's far too early to put grommets in and wants me to come back in 4-6 months time.
I have done some research and it appears that some people DO believe that glue ear effects speech development as it will be like hearing underwater. And to talk, I assume you have to hear properly/completely?
Do any of you have any experience of glue ear? Would you seek a second opinion? Would you sit around for 4-6 months if there was even a slight chance that it could be causing a speech delay?
Some of you even mentioned that it could be glue ear causing the problem.

My friend's 2 children have both had glue ear which has affected speech development (glue ear on both ears however- and very bad). However - and from talking to my friend when she went through it the 2nd time I think she would tend to agree that it is better to wait and give it time to clear. She tried osteopathy which didn't work all that well for her but has done for others. Often it does resolve itself. I wouldn't be in any hurry to operate this early.

Another thing is that at 10 months babies aren't really developing speech- they are developing language (which is slightly different) and glue ear doesn't affect language development much. Although both her son's have/had delayed speech their language has been pretty much on target. Once her eldest son had grommits inserted (at about age 3) his speech caught up very quickly. Her younger son will be having grommits soon- he is coming up to 3 now.

I think 10 monhts is a bit early to be worrying about speech delay in the absence of any other signs of anything being wrong. When I looked up ds2's lack of babbling I did find some references which said babbling should be in place by 12 months (rather than 9- and remember these milestones don;t hold for every baby anyway). His HV wasn't concerned about it at all.

IN the absence of any other signs i don't think you need to worry. They've noted glue ear- so that will be kept an eye on. Does xylitol help with glue ear? I think it might- you can get toothpaste with it in, or try cranial osteopathy. Glue ear is a problem when missed- or if a child gets to school age, but it is very very common in young babies (especially in one ear) and almost everyone will adopt a wait and see attitude.

yes bornworrier - I think I mentioned glue ear when you posted the thread. My youngest child ds had a friend (born exactly the same time as him) who did not utter a comprehensible word until he was 2. He did start babbling but very late - around 15-18 months and then not as much as most children were doing. They found out he had glue ear in one ear (very badly) at his hearing test. He was monitored but they did nothing for it as they thought he may well outgrow it. Everytime he had a cold it prolonged it. Anyway, when he was 2 it suddenly appeared to get better and he started talking almost immediately.

Now I know there are other factors that affect speech but the paediatrician told them it definitely was a contributing factor. His ears are now fine and he's stopped seeing the paediatrician - apparently, some children just outgrow it as their ENT system matures.

Agree with Jimjams - don't panic just keep it in check. Although I would be more concerned if the child has lots of ear infections and is needing painkillers and anti-b's on a regular basis.

All my three had glue ear - the middle one was very severe and it did affect his speech but when he had grommits (plus tonsils, adenoids out) at 3 he improved almost immediately. Ds1 had surgery at the same age having failed all his hearing tests from 9 months and again had no long term speech problems. He was very similar to your ds - complete flat line on one side and some frequency loss on the other. Dd didn't have the surgery as she has other health problems which increase her risk at anaesthetic and she grew out of it by about 5 or 6. With ds2 (the worst one) it was his behaviour and sleep that was affected more than speech.

Also grommits fall out and may need reinserting so maybe better to wait until the optimum time and only have them done once.

HTH

Thanks once again jimjams for your thoughts.

Can't leave it alone though!...... ....... its in my genes.....

How should his LANGUAGE be developing at this age? He has a picture of a fish on his bedroom wall and when I say "where's the fish?" he chuckles and immediatey looks over at it, but does not point at it.

Yesterday I tried "there's the clock!" and I pointed to high up on the kitchen wall which is where the clock is. When I now say "where's the clock?" he puts his hand up high in the air looking a me and chuckling - like he is imitating me when I am pointing at the clock, but not actually looking at or pointing at the clock. Perhaps me with my hand in the air, to him, is a clock?

Are these associations early language development? He obviously know what I am talking about when I ask where the fish is. OK, so the clock is definitely a bit iffy.

Pointing usually starts to develop from around 12 months (and may take 6 months to develop fully). At 10 months a baby should start to develop shared attention. All that means is that they should begin to look where you look (not all the time though obviously!). I think they should be waving bye bye, playing peek-a-boo etc as well- although I remember ds2 was a bit late with that- and his language development is fine. He's talking in sentences now (a 2 and 4 months).

jimjams, - with ds1 I never questioned anything about his development as he hit all his milestones early. I have never worried about him.

One thing though (and I never even considered the potential significance of it at the time) was that he did not wave bye-bye until he was at least 18 - 20 months old. If I'd known what I know now, then maybe I WOULD have worried (needlessly)!!! Just shows....

Perhaps too much knowlegde can be a dangerous thing - especially for people like me?

BW, I think the advice on this thread has been excellent and, other than the slight hearing issue, I'm not sure what else you think is wrong. I have a nearly 9 year old severely autistic and non-verbal DS who showed signs of being "different" from very young, before 10 mos. However, my 15 mos DD is not talking, far from it, but she seems so similar to the other babies of the same age that it hasn't really occurred to me to seriously worry. Now and then I wonder and remind myself about everything she can do, but this is only because of her brother. In fact, I don't even know what or when the developmental milestones are as I simply don't trust those measures and certainly don't trust HVs and haven't been to baby clinic for a yeare. Why do you think you are so anxious about him? Is it because he was ill last winter? I'm the last person to play down parents' anxieties because its more often the case that they need to be more anxious than they are. You seem to have covered everything you can do for now unless you are going to ask for a referral to a Developmental Paediatrician. Also, why don't you do some baby signing with him? Signing DEFINITELY promotes vocal speech, there's many a thread on MN about baby signing.

No time to read all this thread - just read the original post - so sorry if this doesn't fit, but my ds2 didn't babble at nine months but was talking by 14 months and is exceptionally bright. He was also a lot quieter and more content than his older brother. I think that can be a feature of second (or subsequent) children. They are getting all their stimulation from the sibling and don't need to try things out so much.

Davros - I know I would not have been concerned about him had it not been pointed out to me that he is very quiet. Really no babbling at all. I can't believe I hadn't noticed it for myself.

Unfortunately I have an over-active imagination and now it HAS been pointed out I am looking for other things too that might signify cause for concern. Not very bright really as I am now worrying when more than likely I don't need to.

I suppose I now think that he is a little different, but I think that it because he his very different to his older brother and because he is so quiet. His older brother hit every milestone early and for a 2 year old his speech is outstanding. You tell him a word just once and he gets it and I was told be the HV he has the speech of at least a 3 year old. Little one on the other hand has yet to utter a consonant at 10 months. I think he has added a few new sounds to his limited repertiore of noises in the last month - but he doesn't say very much at all - just the odd oo and ahh. He has started 'grumbling' 'mumumumumum' when he is crying - that doesn't really count as speech, though does it?

like davros though I'm not sure what you are worrying about. Are you worrying about a speech problem, or a hearing problem or a developmental problem? TBH even though my 2 and a half year old is showing many signs of verbal dyspraxia- and I was told on Saturday that he almost certainy has it-and we are going to start exercises with him- we're not really going to be sure until he's closer to 3. Also it's not really a "problem". It's a complete pain in the arse but not a problem in the way developmental issues are (because- except in the most severe cases of something like dysarthria- with the right help speech problems are fixable- and you would have plenty of other signs of dysarthria). DS2 is sociable, his language is on track he can make himself understood without relying on his incomprehensible speech. His dodgy speech isn't holding him back at all. If its still as bad as it is now at 5 then it would cause problems but that's very unlikely. I suspect he will still be behind his peers at 5 but I suspect he will be able to make himself understood. But 10 months is far too early to be worrying about a speech problem in itself, lots of children just start later.

The rate at whcih children hit developmental milestones depends a lot on how quickly their neurones myelinate. (ie how quickly their nervous system matures). In other words its physical- like teeth coming through. And to a certain extent its inbuilt. You can encourage development but you cannot change the basic rate. And it has little to do with intelligence- unless there is a major problem- and the child is way off track in milestones. If you look in different books and at different countries the guidelines for things like babbling vary. If your son wasn't babbling, wasn't sitting up, couldnt feed himself then taken together it would be cause for concern. Lack of babbling at 10 months should lead to a hearing test (which you've had). And then just a follow up in a few months. If all other social development is normal then it doesn't really indicate anything.

So BW, why not some baby signing? You don't have to go to classes, there are lovely books and videos available. It would definitely help him but would also make you feel better, more pro-active and its fun. I think if you look in the Behaviour & Development section there's threads there with links and information. If it turns out that there is a problem or not it will do him good either way.

jimjams, davros - thanks. I suppose in a nutshell, the only reason I am worrying is that he is quiet, very quiet. His little friends babble non-stop whilst he makes no sounds at all and just watches them. People always comment on how quiet he is. Quite frankly, I suppose I am worried that I will never hear him chatter away like his brother - like the speech part of his brain doesn't function at all, perhaps.

Funnily enough though - yesterday we spent the day out. He sat in his double buggy and made several completely new sounds; "mamamam", "babathethe babathethe", "ca" and a few other consonant sounds. He was actually quite vocal to the point where, to start with, dh and I couldn't figure out where the noises were coming from - I was a completely unfamiliar voice IYSWIM. It was music to our ears.
Today not a peep out of him, again.
The fact that he has added new sounds (albeit for a day) can only be good!

Hi all, how are your little ones now? My 5 month old is very passive! Poor eye contact. Rarely laughs. Stiffens his legs & arms all the time. No real noises from him. Already seeing a child psychologist. She said we have to take "wait & watch approach". This is killing me. I see myself sinking into a dark hole everyday. I feel so stressed that I cannot describe in words.
Any positive outcomes with your kids??

Hi, my DS1 was a bit of a grumpy baby with poor eye contact. He's 8 years old now - he has autism and has a very, very happy life and doing well in school. Your baby is only 5 months old - is there any reason you are stressing so much at this stage? Are you a very anxious person (I am)?

Hi
I know this is such an old thread but I’m wondering if any of the original posters can give updates on their babies? I’ve got a 7 month old who is so quiet. He is really smiley and laughs at everything but not many sounds at all.
Does anyone know what happened with bornworrier’s baby?
Thanks

Hi Heather,

I just did a mumsnet search on BornWorrier and it showed an update in 2006 when her DS was 2.9 years old having been DXd with a speech delay.

It's a faff to post a link on my phone but pretty easy to find. You can search for other posters names that way too and see if there have been any updates (though obviously they could have changed names since 2004 which wouldn't show up.

Thanks for getting back to me!

Hi Endlessworries,
My dd is also 5mo today and shes exactly like your baby at 5mo, can you share with me how your baby is right now ? Im extremely worried about my baby being so quiet .... thanks much !