DS 'intimidating' the other children

[Flook76]

Dropped DS (6) off this morning and his teacher told she needs me to go in (but couldn't say when!) as DS has had a terrible few days and has been 'intimidating' and making the other children cry.

This was infront of all the other mums in the waiting queue as well - just to make me feel even more crap.
She said DS told her he hates school and just wants to be at home - well that's true, he does!

His diagnoses is HFA (would have been Aspergers previously).

We've been waiting for a county assessment since last term to see what support the school can access for him socially (it's playtimes he really really struggles with).

The other children often get hurt by him and I already feel like all the other parents dislike their children playing with him

School allow him to go I the library with a buddy at lunch, which he likes, but feel he needs to fresh air for the other playtimes but as yet (and this probably won't change) no funding to give him any 1:1 support at these times.
He hates playtime, hates fighting although that's always what ends up happening.

Not really sure what advice anyone can give, I'll have to just see what they say that the meeting (he has an action plan but no IEP although these are gone now anyway).

I just hate feeling like I do now - crap and helpless because I'm not there when it happens and I wish I could just protect him from it all

Hugs. I know soooo well how you're feeling. I am going through similar with my DS but for different reasons. Presently my son is at a specialist school as we took him out of ms but he is struggling with friendships and it's a very small school so little chance of much social interaction. Like your boy, break times are a nightmare. In our case I feel the school is failing to provide proper supervision as well as appropriate activities to channel behaviour in positive ways. Presently all that happens is the boys fight! In your case I would be asking the school how they are going to support your son so that he learns positive play and how are they going to make sure he is included by supporting him socially. I know what witches covens the mothers can sometimes turn into and that is something I don't miss about ms.

Thank both - it helps massively to hear from other people who understand.

Excellent suggestions both.
I honestly wonder about the whole 'fresh air' argument, feel DS would be better if he could spend every break I the library, but school not keen on this.

The county assessment is to see what support can be accessed from autism outreach (I think). It's just all moving so slowly - it was supposed to happen last term but then with everything that the school were doing at Xmas time it got put back until this term.

I'm going to press his teacher tonight to sort out meeting out, at least - think she wants the SENCO there as well which is the right thing to do.

Am feeling bit better now - have told myself to man up and strap my armour on!

You will learn if you have not done so already that you are his best - and only - advocate here.

I would look at IPSEA's website www.ipsea.org.uk and make a personal application to the LEA for an EHCP. His needs are clearly not being met here and you are being both failed currently.

Have you seen a recent action plan, TBH I would be having serious words with them now.

Autism Outreach is all very well and good but their words do not have much clout in some schools.

Thanks Attila - it's always good to hear from you.
I have been pussyfooting around for a year now - hoping school will take the horse by the reins. It's clear they are not going to, so it is up to me (as you have all said all along )

Flook Just apply for an EHCP as soon as possible - as well as Atilla's suggestion of IPSEA, you can call the National Autistic Society 0808 800 4104 and ask to be allocated a trained Education Volunteer to help you through the whole thing.

As you will need evidence from the school, it may help if you make efforts keep the school sweet. I am also outraged that a teacher discussed your DH in front of others, but if you start complaints running, it can sometimes be harder to get the info, and admissions, you need. The school may become defensive and start finding evidence of how well they are doing.

Tell the school that it will be great to get an EHCP to help to shine a light on what needs to be done and to get some extra finance for support.

Also, the stories form the other parents may actually be very useful in making your case for the support needed. If you can get any of them onside to tell you about incidents, that will help you get the picture of how hard your DH finds things, and how much he needs help. Does the school keep an incident log? It may be tough to read, but very useful for getting things right for the future.

It is a strange place mentally: the more you hear 'bad' things about your DH the more it will help you get the help he needs.

Remember: if most kids were like DH there would be no issue. The problem is that he is not a mainstream (bog-standard) kid, and does not learn in a bog-standard way. He has not been intimidating other kids, other kids have been intimidated by him. He does not do 'bad' things. The system allows 'bad' things to happen. It is the absence of proper understanding and support that let that arise.

He is a unique and wonderful individual - his only difficulties arise from being in a minority.

Ah thanks Senvet

I have written a letter / email to teacher and SENCO but have kept it very pleasant, I do want to try and keep them on side and they have tried to be supportive in the past - but with DS as you rightly say he's a square peg in a round hole, therefore NT approaches just aren't going to work. But he can be so lovely (and the school do recognise that too)

No advice, just wanted to send you sympathy! My DS had similar problems but he loved going out to play even though it often ended in trauma (sigh!). He had fulltime one-to-one support funded – but it didn’t cover break or lunchtime even though those were his worst times. DS’s school did some shuffling about so that he was supported at those times. It was quite a juggling act because he had to stay in sight of the allocated playground helper (for everyone’s safety!) but he wanted to zoom around with the other kids. I don’t know the English system at all (I’m in Scotland) so I hope you can find a way to negotiate that something that works for your DS

It sounds as though school want him to play outside at break times even though it's clearly not in his best interests. He doesn't like it, it agitates him and the consequence is that he becomes angry and other children aren't safe around him when he blows. Perhaps you could point out to them that this isn't working - if he is calm and managing by staying indoors at breaks, then that is probably the best course of action for the time being.

He won't learn how to behave appropriately at stressful times if he's expected to get used to it when he's already stressed. He needs time in his comfort zone before he can be taught the skills he needs to cope.

DS teacher once did that public "his behaviour", "affected another child" thing. In all fairness, nowhere near as badly as yours.

I expressed horror, said we never let him do that at home, described how closely we supervise him and asked why no adult was looking after him. Then I asked, given the fact another child got hurt, how she was going to prevent any recurrence. Offered to come in as a helper if they couldn't cope.

All partly for her benefit, but mostly for the benefit of the audience. Used my best extra-clear, carrying across the playground voice Word got round quite quickly; school didn't improve but teachers attempt to give us 'most feckless parents' status got downgraded to 'trying, but not much success'.

Well played meir

I had to meet with the deputy head as DS had started a fight club at school in the quiet area.... Showing off ninja skills

My first question was how did the lunch time supervisors not notice 2 dozen kids ninja fighting...... Apparently the quiet area is for reading and talking only so no one checked - now they have taken the screens down so it can be seen from across the playground.
The head seems to genuinely like him and his little adventures he says when planning new things for the playground they always check with xxx to find out his opinions as if he is happy the rest of the kids will think its fantastic.

at how did the lunch time supervisors not notice 2 dozen kids ninja fighting...... Apparently the quiet area is for reading and talking only so no one checked

DH just had to ask why I was giggling so much - he couldn't hear his TV programme

Flook, I've PMed you

My DS slso has HFA. Why are play times (and listening parts of lessons) so hard for him?

It is the unstructured times that seem so hard for lots of kids with ASD.
My relative had the same thing and the experts put it down to the body language and non-verbal language coming so thick and fast that it is much harder to process it all, than in the relative quiet and structure of a class.

Now, with so much work and research being done on sensory issues, lost od ASD kids are finding reports about how their reaction to the increased noise and stimulation can cause overload.

There are lots of solutions, from peer buddy systems, small group SALT to help social entry skills, and sensory therapy to help DCs to realise when they are at risk of overloading and withdraw. Also to reduce sensitivity to noise.

Lots to think about, but the world needs folk who don't mind being away from busy social situations, as much as it needs the ones who love it.

sorry lots of ASD kids...

True, Senvet. I find it a shame thiugh that the only moments of the day that can be child-led (he needs autonomy and craves to be self-directed, resisting direction, etc.), are fraught with difficulties.
OP I hope that your DS has a better week of play times this week.

Hello! Just checked and there were more posts on this thread - thanks everyone

So yes DS has always struggled with unstructured time, plus when there is lots of noise / input (he's the same at soft play or big noisy parties).
It's like it overloads him and he just becomes very defensive (eg another child stands in his way and DS thinks that child is deliberately 'blocking' him so lashes out).
Plus, now, he's earned a reputation for himself so the other kids wind him up / bait him. And he would never seek a teacher's intervention - he simply lacks the communication skills to do this (he often comes home with unreported injuries).

And now this is how he's learnt to behave in the playground, it's almost his default setting.

I wrote a letter to teacher and SENCO last week telling them I want to pursue an ECHP and also to request a meeting to talk about different strategies we could use in the meantime (it transpired some parents have been in to complain about DS's behaviour, hence why I think the teacher was making a big deal of telling me in the queue - to tell the other parents she was doing something about it )

Was dreading school run this morning but it was uneventful in the end, DS got a sticker in assembly so he was pleased today. And am now waiting for them to set up this blinking meeting the teacher told me she needed last week

Good Luck with the meeting. I would just say 'do you want to apply for an EHCP?"
If they say 'no', or fob you off, then just apply for it yourself when you get home.

The sensory stuff really looks like it could be behind a lot of the behaviour issues, but they may have left it so long that there will be some habits to break as well. But get the sensory OT going and the see if the behaviour settles of its own accord.

Do you have funding for your own independent OT report?

Good Luck with the meeting. I would just say 'do you want to apply for an EHCP?"
If they say 'no', or fob you off, then just apply for it yourself when you get home

Completely agree. In fact it's better if you make the application yourself, I think, as you're then in control of it and there's a better chance of getting what you want.