DD2 has just BEGGED me not to send her to school

[lougle]

She's had the most lovely time with her cousins - a sleepover then a day out with them. But it transpires that they've been telling her not to suck her hand in the last couple of days, as do the children at school, and the teachers at school.

She's just begged me to be a 'home learner'.

The saddest thing was when she said 'I really want to learn at home but I'm worried that if I do miss my friends I won't know the way to their houses when they invite me over to play.' The truth is, she doesn't have any friends to be invited to play with. She associates with the other children, but none would be 'friends'. That's why it was so precious to go and spend time with her cousin (same age, same year group, same school, different class).

It kills me to hear her distress and I know that she knows we keep ignoring her pleas. I can't work out if we genuinely think it's the best for her (she is a child, after all, so we can't let her unilaterally make decisions), or if we're just chicken.

Thanks schmedz.

I'm reluctant to try yet another school - it would 3 schools in 3 years. She has no statement. No prospect of getting one. She's an under the radar child.

The teacher knows about her hand sucking, but because DD2 zones out while she sucks her hand, the teacher is in an awkward position. If she allows it, DD2 doesn't learn because she 'isn't there'. If she disallows it, DD2 is distressed, but is 'present'. The other children are just doing what is natural to them. In a class of mainly 7 year olds, it's not normal to suck thumbs/hands any more.

I can't see that it would be difficult to return to school, tbh. If you apply for a school and they have a place, you get it. I'm in a rural area so it's not that common for schools to be very oversubscribed. Also, junior phase is no subject to Infant Class Size regulations, so if all the schools were full I could just appeal.

I'm not trivialising what is a major decision. I'm giving it a lot of thought in all directions.

At the end of the day, my feeling is that DH and I are her parents. The law says:

"The parent of every child of compulsory school age shall cause him to receive efficient full-time education suitable—

a: to his age, ability and aptitude, and

b: to any special educational needs he may have,

either by regular attendance at school or otherwise." Education Act 1996.

Currently we've been doing that by sending her to school. However, having reviewed our arrangements for her education, and assessing it against the legal responsibility we have, I'm looking at each element:

Does school provide efficient full-time education suitable:

a)
to her age? Yes, of course.
Her ability? Well....I'm not so sure. I think they're trying, but I don't think they've understood her yet.
Her aptitude? I'm not so sure. I think we have different ideas of how able she is and the cause of any apparent low ability.

b)
to any special educational needs she may have? Well, again we disagree. I think if they looked more closely at her needs, they'd understand why she isn't progressing as well as she could do.

So, I am wondering if she would get a more efficient full-time education otherwise than at school.

I agree with you zzzzz. I think HE is seen as a last resort because we are all so conditioned that when you're 5 you go to school.

DD2 is 6 years old. She's tiny, in the scheme of things. I have the responsibility to give her the tools for a successful life. The way to do that is education.

For many, many children, the most efficient way to do that is school. But at this point in time, school is consuming and destroying DD2. She disappears in term time. She comes home from school, sits on the sofa and sucks her hand. She starts sleep walking and having nightmares, normally on the friday of each holiday prior to returning to school.

It took her 5 months to settle into this academic year. I believe she only finally settled due to the nurture group she was put in (removed from class 2 x per week for the afternoon). But the teacher has decided that she 'just needed to get to know me and my style of teaching...'. What, for 5 months?? Then, when she's finally settled, what do they do? Take the nurture group away because it's only a 1 term intervention.

What do most children do in the first week of the holidays? Enjoy them. What did DD2 do? Sobbed and sobbed and begged us not to send her back to school.

DD2 was nagging us day after day to do her homework. A small information sheet on a nocturnal animal - research on the computer then write a paragraph about their appearance, habitat and diet. She begged us to do it. I wanted her to relax for a few days, but she was determined she should do it. She managed one sentence before she was overwhelmed.

I don't think it's the writing itself. I think it's the uncertainty over what the expectations are. The fear that she might be getting it 'wrong'. The worry that it isn't neat enough. Or isn't 'good' enough. That her teacher might not like her facts. That she might not have used enough connectives. That she may not have used full stops and capital letters in the right places. That her spellings may not be right. It paralyses her.

So much of it is beyond my control, because I wasn't there when she was told what to do and they give only a little information in writing because they want the Y2s to develop their independence and to be able to remember what the teacher said.

It's no life for a 6 year old to be constantly gripped with anxiety about such a large part of her week. If it was a job, with that much anxiety, the whole world would say 'resign, get out, it's killing you.' But because she's a child they say 'oh well they've just got to do it, don't they?'

No, actually, they don't....

Sounds good, zzzzz. I'll be going to the library this week sometime.

HE isn't for life. It is for now.

Things get more complicated when you are statemented/in special school but for those at a mainstream it is much more flexible and you have so much less to lose.

Do you know why it is the norm for there to be approx 30 kids in a class?

I do. It is because there are 30 soldiers in a platoon. Therefore 30 subordinates to one in authority.

How can you ever do worse than that with your education philosophy? It sounds like you've made your decision. It isn't necessarily forever. Perhaps it will serve the purpose of a booster year giving her a fighting chance at top Juniors.

Fwiw, if the logistics work I think you'd make a super HE-er.

Thanks, Star. I think this comes under the heading of 'stop sitting around waiting for other people to do something. Do it.'

Logistics are never easy for anything. That comes with having 3 very different children. But that isn't a reason not to try, I think.

The only thing about doing this is that you are not letting your child fail to enough of an extent to get her the paperwork she might need in the future, for help or for extra time in exams etc.

That's a tough call. My journey was much tougher because I removed ds from 3 schools before they damaged him. Those that didn't got better provision faster. I couldn't honestly say what the better approach was.

Hmm... True, Star, but so far DD2 is not seen to be 'failing' and having seen other children who are also not deemed to be 'failing' until a few months before the y6 sats, who are much more behind than DD2, I have little faith that there would be any gain for DD2 to be put through that stress.

At this stage no one is interested enough to work out the cause of her difficulties. I don't think that will change unless she lashes out at school. Even then, there are children in y2 and y5 that I know of, who have had behavioural support service since year R and are no further forward.

Would you still pursue a diagnosis?

Btw I think there is always a difference between what schools say they see based on the perceived consequences and resistance to look closer and what they actually see which is also influence by comparisons they make and judgements about deserving and undeserving due to family background etc.

Don't assume they do think she's fine, just that she's not next in line for effort/resources/paperwork etc. and has a mum who will protect her from their failures.

Well to be honest, we're talking as if it's decided and DH we're not quite there yet, but I will be astounded if this TAC meeting is anything other than 'tell the parents she's fine'.

The purpose a dx would serve is generally to allow the educators to make reasonable adjustments. If we were to HE, I feel that the educators would be quite on board regardless of a dx .

She's far too HF to qualify for SS input and doesn't need 1:1 in groups for safety, so the gateway card is not much use.

so, I think HE would take away the urgency for getting a dx and I'm sure it will all be clearer as she gets older.

I'm certain it's not going away. I'm just wondering why I would waste precious time trying to convince irrelevant professionals that my wonderful DD needs support when I could just support her myself.

Blimey. You did well if you made any sense of my last post.

If/when you withdraw her, cover yourself with a list of reasons that you send to the school. You don't have to 'blame' them exactly but you can suggest that due to the way education is organised her very significant needs are being missed regularly, that your child is unrecognisable in the holidays without the pressure of school, that with 1:1 she thrives etc.

It is just to cover yourself for the future and if she returns they can't blame difficulties on the fact she was HE.

Hi lougle I have just caught up with your thread,I can identify with what you wrote in y the long post last night about your Dd2 taking 5 months to settle into a new class. This happens every year with Dd3 and its hasnt got any better as she has got older it doesnt matter what transition preparation is done it still takesages for her to get to know the staff, the classroom, the routines and everything else.

At October half term this year Dd3 was moved back into the class she was in last year to try to prevent her placement from breaking down completly.

All the homework stuff is very familiar too, its too much pressure. Dd3 can never remember what she is supposed to do or how to do it.

I have decided to give Dd3 the opportunity to try secondary but I am not going to let it damage her MH if she starts to go downhill I will be taking her out and we will HE until I can find the best possible place fore her. If we cant find somewhere then we will HE indefinitly.

Her MH health is more important than sending her to school everyday to be unhappy.

Good luck whatever you decide

That's a good suggestion. I really don't blame them. I honestly don't. I'm disillusioned with the system rather than them. I need to maintain good relationships because DD3 goes there and is thriving. DD2 will still need to go there twice a day to do drop off and pick up, too.

It's no life for a 6 year old to be constantly gripped with anxiety about such a large part of her week. If it was a job, with that much anxiety, the whole world would say 'resign, get out, it's killing you.' But because she's a child they say 'oh well they've just got to do it, don't they?'

No, actually, they don't....

This - I made this abundantly clear about DS1 when I embarked on our appeal. When I pulled him out for a few days, as he spent every evening ranting and ticcing after, at best, an unproductive day at school, I pretty much put this statement in my letter to the school. (HT agreed with me, but the letter was a formality that I know I needed to include).

I think it might in some cases be easier to get a diagnosis for a child who is not in school. This is because school opinions can sometimes be given too much weight in the diagnostic process and sometimes school opinions can be too influenced by their own stereotypes about the family background etc. This is why DS had to do an adhd assessment 4 times before finally being allowed to do the ADOS - schools in that area had no awareness of sensory issues at all and Mum's observations don't count.

For exams - although DS is statemented and part 4 now says the EP will come out termly to monitor his education - I'll still be shocked as all out if I don't need to get a private EP report when the time comes for him to have accommodations made so he can sits his GCSE's. However at least I'll be dealing direct with the exams board and won't have to risk an unhelpful school middleman iyswim.

Lougle - when I 'allowed' DS1 to be unable to attend school (stopped forcing him) it was important to me to realise that no adult with any autonomy would not continue to tolerate the situation and that it is wrong, and does damage, to tolerate the intolerable.

But don't expect DD to feel OK about attending the school for drop up and pick up. Would you leave a job for the sake of your well-being and then visit the workplace twice a day? It's the social stuff that is hard - the friendly unexpected questions from adults and peers - why are you not here? Where are you instead? Is it better? What do you miss? Harmless but excruciating

DS1 did not set foot on school grounds (twice a day for most of an academic year) until we won Indi placement. As far as he was concerned HE even with LA tutors did not count and was something to hide.

You see, DS1 is different about that, as he doesn't mind going and having a wee chat at the end of the day, or first thing - it's being in school doing things in school that he can't tolerate, even though he's quite attached to a lot of people there, so he's just happy not to have to be in school all day.

It probably helps that we use the office entrance, as DS2 is directly handed over at each end of the day, though. There's not as many people around.

It's an interesting point, Keep. My initial thought is that she'll actually be quite pleased to be able to see her old teacher, the SENCO, etc., and smile and wave as she passes. Even to say hi to her old class mates. I think it's the prolonged forced interaction that is hard for her, rather than the quick 'hi and bye'.

To be honest, that brings me to a 'line in the sand'. I'm not facilitating non-contact with other humans. If she can't cope with a 5 minute interaction, morning and afternoon, then she'll have to stay in school because I'm not arranging for her to be elsewhere for pick up and drop off for the next 6 years.

I can't see it being a problem, for her.