ABA in mainstream for a 'low-functioning child'

[salondon]

Spoke to a school where they ran ABA a few trs back.

Quite a worrying response actually. They said the family was managing the Aba themselves and school was just a premises. Excellent so far! However it worked in nursery and reception. But in yr 1, the child couldn't cope and had to be moved to a special school in another county. Same for another boy.

Those of you who run ABA in mainstream does is work for acedemics at a later stage?

The senco told me that ABA methods couldn't be applied in the academic settings from yr 1 onwards. Is that your experience too?

Does the child usually have to be moved to an ABA school or a special school? Can an IEP not run for longer than reception?

The senco told me that ABA methods couldn't be applied in the academic settings from yr 1 onwards.
Total nonsense. This is what I do, day in, day out.

I would however question a m/s setting for a very needy child. The difficult question to ask is if the child is there for the child or for the parents. Little point pretending a child can grasp and deal with learning about Guy Fawkes, say, when s/he is learning to imitate and follow commands.

"The difficult question to ask is if the child is there for the child or for the parents. Little point pretending a child can grasp and deal with learning about Guy Fawkes, say, when s/he is learning to imitate and follow commands."

This 100 times.

Especially with ABA, the whole point (if I've understood it properly) is to identify a skill that needs to be learned, teach that skill, give opportunities to practice that skill over and over again until it's grasped, then embed it in everyday activities so the child can generalise it.

In a special school, that can be accommodated very naturally, because every child has their own 'plan' for learning. In MS, every class has a 'plan' for learning, and the learning opportunities are adjusted up/down for children outside of average in every direction.

As an example, at a special school, a child suddenly progressed from 'not being able to walk' to 'walking' at an age far higher than the norm. That child's 'plan' for learning changed overnight, to being given the opportunity to practice walking as much as s/he wanted to, because at that moment it was the most precious skill that had been unlocked and needed to be mastered.

Thanks Lougle & moondog

Your points make sense

Sorry to hijacked the your thread,

Do you all think that sometimes child who is doing ABA , it can be done better in Special need / unit environent ?

Thanks

Unless it is an ABA school, you won't get funding for ABA and special school.

Sometimes non-selective Independent mainstream schools allow ABA shadows in, but usually this is only if the child is already on roll so the ABA is a development and helps solve problems the school know they have.

ok, I see..

Thank you StarlightMcKingsThree.

How about if the child cannot cope in mainstream setting then ? I mean even he goes for 1-2 hours a day with ABA shadows ??

Is this mean that if we choose the ABA home programme then we must have a full time home programme TOTALLY and no school at all. Hence, my boy have sensory issue like he would not respond well in busy environent.

The ABA school is not an option for us because we have got none here.

Thnaks

Starlight - That is precisely the reason we have gone for a state school primary(not allocated one yet) - For us (atleast in Reception) ABA/VB was more important than the IEP side of things.

However, for Yr1 onwards, moondog and Lougle make a good point.

Lindi - A good ABA program should ideally prepare the child to learn in any environment. Its very expensive to do a unit + ABA - I dont know anyone who has funding for that.. ABA schools(like treetops) are a different matter..

Lindi - In that case, I think you need to make a case that the child only learns in ABA style of teaching and he should have access to school envrionment. Since he cant cope with mainstream he should be allowed in a special school with an ABA schadow

He will need an ABA programme and 'access' to a mainstream school and his peers for development of his social interaction skills and group learning which will be have to taught first in a no-distraction environment 1:1 and build up to smaller groups in a quiet place, to a busier place with more children. You will have to say that the aim is to fully intergrate him into a mainstream classroom setting with minimal support but the pace will be dependent on the child and his ability to get through the programme and the willingness of the placement to be cooperative and supportive.

Thanks salondon ,

The trouble is I invited NHS SALT , OT and SEN teach fro the school that he will be going to in sep 2014 to look at home programme.

SALT and OT were not interest on that and does not like it. They keep say ing that Unit and Special need school is better for him. the reason is

1. He has sensory issue and will not be able to learn or cope in maintream.if we attend 1-1.5 hours then it is no point for him ??

1. They said ABA will teach children to not generlise the skill (I dont think this is true at all)

1. The SEN teach was not keen , they just simply does not like ABA here. However, she said she would try but not sure about it.

1. I cannot find other the school around me who is willing to support ABA, Not very keen when I went to see head teacher. The school that quieter is far fro home. I really like the school that LA offer even without the access to unit but it 5 miles away so I dont know if LA will prepare to pay for the cost of taxi

any suggestion is welcome

Thanks StarlightMcKingsThree,

I think, I will now change the name of the mainstream that he will be going to. I just discussed this with the consultant and she think that 5 miles is not much to drive to. She did not know that local school is so busy and no room for ABA to be conducted in school whatsover.

The local school that I like is extreely busy with no extra roo for him to go for quiet time and learn at all. The school is pretty small in here and alway over subcribe every year.

It is really good point from you here.

Do you know how much does transport will roughy cost for 5 miles by Taxi ( my husband is taxi driver and he think is about £15 to go = £30 )

Do you think I should ask to compromise with the cost of this travelling expense with LA ? For example bring child back and to school by Myself or tutor and they pay fuel,. insureane ect per milege to us instead ?

Thanks

1 - Have they got evidence to prove that 1.5hrs/day wont be beneficial for your child? Have they tried it? I am having the same battle with my LEA at the moment
2 - Again, same as point 1
3 - nothing new... ask them to prove ABA doesnt work for your child
4 - Tell me about it.. No suggestions

Yes, you can ask for transport in direct payments.

Ask them in writing for evidence that your child will not be able to generalise if he does ABA. Make sure you collect evidence that he can (but keep it quiet for now).

Thank you very much salondon & StarlightMcKingsThree,

It is very straight to the point here from you both. I can no answer all those question from them now.

Those question that I ask you it was from NHS professionals, it is shocking that they just think Special need school is the best for everthing.

Thank you so much you both, very very helpful mothers here on Mumsnet. I learned a lot here.

If you could think of anything else please let me know and I will post more question if I can think of anything else.

Yes sorry. We do tend to be quite straight to the point because we're all so short of time as are our children. Some have said they find it a bit rude but mostly we just want to help.

dear StarlightMcKingsThree,

No, not at all. I don't find this is rude or a bad thing.

In fact , I really like it because when you are talking to LEA you need to go straight to the point. I am not very good at talking and I need asnwer like this, short and straight forward.

Thanks

Dear LindiRioni and salondon,
This might be a helpful source re: your question 2 on ABA and generalisation. It is also point 2 in his list. I hope it helps.
profhastings.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/autism-and-evidence-5-15-criticisms-of.html

Dear Pixellator,

Thank you so much, this is very helpful.

Thanks