DD2 and homework - any thoughts?

[lougle]

Following on from PolterGoose's vids, I thought I'd upload the videos of DD2 doing her homework. They're quite long, so I don't blame you if you don't watch it all, or any!

takes just under 20 minutes to produce 'We were going to the shop today because we needed to buy food.'

It has her more erratic outbursty reactions.

was 12 minutes to produce 'Who are they? They look funny.'

It has her more 'happy flappy' behaviour.

I'd love any observations/comments/views, if you are bored and have the time.

I don't know, Handy. The letter at the front says:

'We have also sent home their current Literacy targets. This will help guide the activity and set standards for you to work towards at home. It will also mean that the homework will develop other skills such as grammatical knowledge and use of punctuation...
...Adult help is always needed for homework in year 2 and this activity will particularly need help in order to work towards targets.'

I might write a note on top of the homework how long it took and that DD2 got very stressed.

I think there are a few things which are mingling to cause me concern:
-I sensed (before I tackled the anxiety, etc.) that the class teacher had been of the opinion that DD2 'was doing ok for a girl of her ability'. ie. wasn't that able. I had a conversation with someone who subtley suggested that I ask 'what table' DD2 was on, because in their opinion she was far more able than that .

-Once I showed the video of DD2 getting upset with song practice, the teacher very kindly said 'forget targets, let's just get her happy in school.' Which is great, except that a) she's not happy in school, despite smiling and laughing b) she is being sent home work with targets.

-I'm concerned that the demands can only increase and, frankly, if she can't cope with writing 4 sentences, reading two story books (answering one question about what she's read) each week, and having a simple maths homework every other week, it can only get worse in the Juniors.

Yes when I think of some of the things I made my Dyslexic dd1 attempt when decoding words I absolutely shudder (I got no acknowlegment of problems from school and no guidance there at all).

Plus, I have it easier with my dd2 because I'm simply not allowed to speak and if I overstep the mark, I get the worksheet screwed up and thrown in my face! Your lovely girl is a crazy, wonderful mix of being amenable to correction and able to write and being completely unable to start due to rigidity and anxiety. I can completely see why have have approached it as you have.

yy re writing a note, I do that when we have failed attempts or when I've had to 'scribe' due to dd2's anxiety. Simply write this is the result of 30mins supervised work reminding dd2 of the targets sorry. Your school seem to be expecting a lot from homework. They are expecting home teaching, in effect.

Re 'it can only get worse' I didn't find that, Lougle, kids like yours and mine are gestalt learners, when they eventually learn something like capitals, finger spaces their work suddenly comes on leaps and bounds. Keep the faith. Like you say, she's not stupid. Far, far, far, from it.

You're so nice

I do try, so very hard, to think about what I say, how I phrase things, how to encourage her to do her best without piling on the pressure. How to make sure I've given it my best shot to support her, balancing that with the stress it brings....

She went to bed super early tonight (sleep over at Nanny and Grandad's last night) and she's already woken up in a sleep walking - half awake mumbling anxiety state. I've no doubt it's the homework. She only ended up with 3 of the 4 sentences completed.

Only? 3 out of 4 is fab Lougle If the teacher has a problem with that, direct them to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok no don't... anyway I am probably on some sort of SENCO black-list.....

You know what I get that too, Lougle, when I was 8yo I had the reading/spelling age of a 15yo. Trying to get my head round having a daughter would could not (and still can not and will never be able to) spell or read fluently, and who can only make minuscule increments of progress in these skills is really soul-destroying. It is like they are in a bubble and you can't get in you feel helpless...

Thing is, your dd2, like my dd2, does have the skills, she just has whopping great anxiety/pragmatic/rigidity/sensory issues which stand in her way. She has the skills and definitely wants to succeed, just there's other stuff in the way. It's different from being 'not very able'. When the anxiety is in the way, it's the anxiety that needs to be dealth with, then the rest will come.

I never dreamed I would have kids who would struggle academically (am from a family of high-achievers). To land up with two, who struggle in completely different ways - it's taught me a LOT!

HI, I had a look at this. really interesting. She is like my DS when it comes to homework, except he is more obstructive!

Like DS your DD seems to have a massively overdeveloped sense of 'not quite rightness'. This can be related to ASD, to other conditions such as OCD or it can just be a personality trait.

Anxiety can be crippling. if i can save DS from his perfectionism, that will be the biggest achievement of my life. no exaggeration. the academic stuff pales in comparison. I have faith in DS innate intelligence. I don't need to push him or look at 'targets' designed for kids not like him.

have you heard of errorless learning? I did this a bit with DS when he was younger, and even more phobic about learning. it helped.

I think you are bit overly literal in what you are trying to achieve with her 'learning'. Why would you disallow 'stuff' (I know you've addressed this)? Why wouldn't you just tell her how 'course' is spelt? Does she even need to see or hear about the 'corrections' in her homework book?

She strikes me as very academically able, but not very emotionally mature and even disordered. But you seem really focussed on the academics. Is this because she puts pressure on herself? There will be loads of kids doing far far worse than your DD.

Some things I would have done

1. write in her homework book - DD was tired and emotional tonight and got upset about her homework so we gave it a miss for tonight. is the teacher really so draconian she would mind about this, or indeed about the use of 'stuff'?

1. let her write a crap sentence and lie about any negative feedback

1. white lie about the content of the homework. So not, 'we have to think of a sentence' (which is actually really tricky if you are put on the spot) but 'Mrs X wants you to put this sentence in your book' and have a sentence ready to copy - yes its a bit dishonest, but it alleviates stress and that is currently your main barrier to learning. At least it is ours.

1. leave the room to 'check dinner'. offer a reward for the completion of a sentence on your return. if there is a sentence which is wrong in some way, e.g. no finger spaces, too small, ignore and hand in anyway.

1. get your DH to do the homework for a bit. he is in another room watching tV whilst you are having a nightmare! if she won't do her homework for him write in her homework book 'DH worked with DD on her homework, but unfortunately she was tired tonight and couldn't complete it, i was and couldn't help. Men get away with more. If she does the homework with DH but it is wrong in some way, hand it in anyway.

I know that all seems a bit flippant, but I think the key issue is her stress, anxiety and perfectionism not her academic targets.

the stuff about your own schooling is really revealing.

bassingtonffrench, firstly, my DH was not 'watching TV'. He was occupying dd3 by letting her play with his hair, after taking her to gymnastics, so that dd2 and I could have uninterrupted time while DD1 (SN) was at her grandparents.

I'm literal with dd2 because she can't cope if I'm not. If I stray from the literal her stress levels rise rapidly.

I've acknowledged that I perhaps should have let stuff go. I'm human.

I don't lie to my children and she can read the feedback - she's not stupid. Again, she knows what the homework is about. She knows what the teacher wants her to do. Again, she's not stupid.

DD2 can't cope with me leaving the room right now. Maybe in the future, not now.

I'm not focused on the academics. Far from it. I have a DD1 who is 8 and is only just grasping phonics, still on p levels. I don't care, her wellbeing is my priority.

For DD2 the stress that school brings is rapidly increasing. She worries about homework. She's smart and she knows exactly what she should be doing, where her group is in the class, how tricky she finds it. She also finds the social relationships extremely difficult.

If she doesn't get the homework done she can't sleep which makes everything worse. I am supporting her as best I can.

If you feel that you can do better, feel free to try - I'll pm you my address

sorry i didn't realise I came across as aggressive, I didn't mean to offend.

I have a child who is very difficult and I'm just trying to describe what seems to lower his stress levels, as this seems to be the most importnat thing.

I didn't meant to be nasty about your DH. Just trying to make a feeble joke. I genuinely find in our household that a change of face really helps.

I'm not saying you are academically pushy. Its just you quote from the homework book targets as if they really matter. And I suppose I'm just trying to challenge that and say its perhaps not that important right now?

I guess the big thing is that if you DD cares passionately about getting the homework 'right' then that is hard to downplay.

I'm sorry. I'm tired and emotional. DH and I both give our all to the children so I felt very defensive.

I wouldn't care less if DD2 was working to her ability. I wouldn't be so stressed, if DD2 wasn't working to her ability and didn't give a monkeys - she's 6.

I care because DD2 is an intelligent child. She is not only not performing to her ability, she's not performing at all. To the point where she can't follow class instructions.

Her anxiety is so bad that they've had to take her out of class 2-3 afternoons per week.

She's getting worse not better, and right now she isn't even on SA (that I know of).

It should not be taxing to write a sentence with the word 'were' in it. It's the anxiety that makes it hard.

lougle this is why I hate homework so much

I have only watched part of the first video ,my younger Dd's were exactly like that, well Dd3 still is.

She also would be very anxious about missing a question and would probably write something quickly at the breakfast table.

FWIW, I thought you were very patient, I would have thrown the towel in much quicker. She is extremely literal and is stressing herself out with all the rules.

All those targets are to prepare her for SATS, they are all things that she needs to be showing to get a decent level 2 or even a 3!!

Dont let the school do what Dd3's habe done and push her so far through the levels that she looks as though she has no issues, make sure they see what she cant do as well as what she can.

Write in pen on the homework book so that there is a permenant record of how much help you are giving her.

Also I personally would just spoon feed the homework and get it out of the way as quick as possible, remember there have been studies which have shown homework in primary has very little value.

Dont beat yourself up, you are a great mum who is doing her best, you cant do more than that

re. the targets, if she doesn't follow them, she gets comments and gets more stressed. I was just hoping to give her a springboard for her confidence. To write one sentence that met the targets, so she could go to school with confidence in the morning.

Can you ask the teacher to simply write 'wow, well done mini-Lougle!'?

What do they do with your dd2 in dragonflies? Are they working on her anxiety?

dragonflies is a social skills/ELSA type thingy. She lives for it. every Sunday and Wednesday she says 'Oh! mum! D-R-A....' and then flaps her hands.

Trouble is, whilst I'm grateful, I'm certain the DD2 hasn't grasped that it's short term. It's only 6-8 weeks and she's already had 2 weeks.

I'll look at that, polter, thanks.

lougle, your DD is so much like mine in the way she reacts to homework, but mine wouldn't even try to write any sentences. I am struggling to do reading and some maths with her in year 2.

For me it looks like you are doing really well in handling the situation.I am far behind you (don't know if it helps ). I will try to model some of your tricks and other good advice in this thread. Just wanted to say this .

So much pressure for someone who is already struggling with anxiety

Thanks bonkers, although I'm not sure of the wisdom of following my example.

You are doing a great job , ask her teacher if she on the sen register at all , she may be there for her anxiety if she seeing camhs at all, as everyone else has pointed out , she is a very clever little girl and there is a lot expectations on her from school .
Ask the teacher about how she feels that these very high expectation are impacting on your daughter during class . How she manages within class time , whether she marks all work to the same specification for all pupils , very much doubt this ,
My son when he was in year two couldn't pull together a long sentence , and still struggles to spell half the words he writes , but is able to do work in his head . Things click at different times and they can and do suddenly just get something you can have spent a whole year or longer working on .
All you can do is continue to support her , even if English isn't her subject there is and will be other areas of the curriculum she shines in . She is still a very young child who actually has a good grasp of the basics dispite her difficulties with anxiety.
Think of it this way for ever lesson that she is taught she has to overcome ten times more , than the arvarage child to just participate in that one lesson due to the anxiety that wells up within her . If helps tell her teacher how would she feel being constantly monitored by people from ofsted and them forming an opinion about every lesson she delivers constantly living with that amount of stress and pressure .
You never know she might lay up a little , as nobody can work well under that amount of stress.
Sorry not that helpful , spend and still do an age getting homework done , with loads of leaving it till last minute and him dictating and me typing at one o'clock in morning sometimes . He can't cope with not handing it in on time but also can't get his head around just getting on and doing it.
Still hate homework with a passion .

I get lots of this Lougle, lots of dropping pencil on floor, I cant do it, refusing to sit down etc, etc. Although sometimes if ds is eager, he can sit for long periods.

I figure 5 minutes of work, is better than 20 minutes of refusal! We agree what work will be done before we start and break it down in smaller chunks, if it is something ds finds difficult or if he is not in the right frame of mind. So we are going to write one sentence and what ds is going to do once he has done that ie have a drink or biscuit, have a break and line up his pokemon cards etc before we move on to the next one.

Also correcting ds at the time, is enough to make him scribble all over it and refuse to carry on. So I let him write it down, however that may be, once its complete we then look at what he could do differently next time ie next time we could put a capital letter, full stop etc.

Would you dd refuse less, if you made it into a game? or would that just complicate things more?

Like Polter, you also have the patience of a Saint!