My 7 year old ds got chucked out of a pub! Discrimination?

[Eulalia]

Was out yesterday with my sister and my 3 kids, ds1 who's just turned 7, dd 4 and ds2 who is nearly 1. We went to a 'family' pub with beer garden and small playpark. Have been there a few times before with no problems.

ds1 has autism and a few related behavioural problems but we sat right next to the park and either I or my sister was watching ds. For some reason this time he started throwing the bark pieces around. Its rather dirty as the park is underneath some trees. Tried to stop him but he was just determined. There was another group of kids with 3 mums. I spoke to them and they were totally fine with it and have experience of autism. Whew! Their kids got filthy but didn't mind... after all that's what kids do isn't it?

Then another girl comes along, quite old about 11 all nicely dressed, gets a very small bit of dirt on her, I mean not much... ds was just throwing it into the air, not at her. She shrieks and her dad shouts over "just hit him back!". Then the manager comes over although I had no idea it was as he didn't have a name badge on, I thought he was a barman. He says "stop throwing the stuff, could get in people's eyes etc" Ok I agree with this, talk to the parents. "she's just had a shower!" blah blah. Mum seems understanding, dad is just a boor.

Clean ds up and yes he does have dirt in his eyes (don't think he'll be doing that again!) but he's OK and goes back and plays quite nicely for about half an hour. The angry family leave.

Then ds picks up a small slipper type shoe and throws it. Doesn't hit anyone and just lands outside the park area, I suppose it could have hit a glass if he had thrown it harder. Manager storms over and says "you'll have to leave". I ask him who he is and he tells me. He's bloody rude IMO. I get a card from the barmaid with the owners name and am about to complain. The three mums take my name and say they will also complain as witnesses.

The thing is no-one actually made a complaint against us, the 3 mums were happy with the situation and no-one was hurt, nothing damaged etc. ds1 was a bit boisterious but so are plenty of kids and there's bits of branches and stuff lying around that any kid could throw and I am sure have done in the past. And its not as if things don't get knocked over in a beer garden anyway by adults, drunk adults at that....

Sorry for the long speil, just feel better writing it out. Don't know whether to phone the owners, email or write a formal letter of compliant. Probably nothing much can be done as a manager has the right to ask anyone to leave ... but it was the manner in which it was done and I don't know if I have any rights and that my child has been discriminated against.

What would you do?

I'd write, a written letter is taken more seriously. And it's an opportunity to educate the manager. I know he can ask people to leave but the company might think about changing their policies.

Sorry about your experience, sounds awful.

I'd write, a written letter is taken more seriously. And it's an opportunity to educate the manager. I know he can ask people to leave but the company might think about changing their policies.

Sorry about your experience, sounds awful.

did the manager know he had behavioural problems/autism? I suppose whatever you say, the manager could argue that your son was causing problems for the other customers (perhaps angry family complained on the way out?) and quite possibly, for insurance purposes, if anyone had got hurt, the pub would have been liable for any damage?

I think it is worth writing the letter and explaining the circumstances and asking them to deal with this sort of situation more sensitively next time.

Sorry that you had to go through this.

Send him an NAS leaflet as well.

It's so hard isn't it. With ds2 I wouldn't let him chuck stuff around,but I (like you) would have no way of stopping ds1, and so I'd do the same as you- decide whether it was dangerous, or too problematic, and if so, leave, if not let it be. It's simply impossible to get het up over every small social infraction - like chucking bark- I mean who cares in the grand scheme of things?

PMSL @ "she's had a shower".

You know it's utterly mindless stupid stuff like this that just does not matter, that makes it so hard to go anywhere the general public are. So yes write a reasonable letter, and chip away at it iyswim.

He heard me telling the angry family about his autism but was not at all receptive. I suspect the angry family may have complained. I was about to go and ask if the girl (pretty primped up thing - why would she want to play in a park anyway if she's so worried about getting dirty?!) if she wanted to go back to the park as I was going to get ds something to eat but they'd already gone. . .. what struck me was her dad's attitude - telling his daughter who is much older to hit another child - I could have easily have complained to the manager about him... in fact I will mention that in the letter....

Fortunately I didn't get upset or angry just went numb.

But yes its now just another place on my list of 'Places That I Can't Go to Any More'

Oh just go there. I've decided not to let other people's inability to cope with anything slightly abnormal put me off.

Last year we stayed in a hotel- first time in years, one night only, and we almost left at midnight becuase we couldn't work out how to turn the fan off (with an overide switch) and ds1 wouldnt go to sleep.

The next morning at breakfast ds1 sat in his chair long enough to eat a biscuit- in a busy breakfast dining room- which is utterly amazing for him. He also had some cornflakes which is even more amazing. He then started getting up a lot (followed by dh or myself) and then returning to the chair, then would get up again- all standard stuff,- but bloody hell he was staying in the room which was really really amazing- and the older couple behind us were getting really huffy about all the up down up down business. So I'm afraid I completely ignored them. He wasn't sitting on their laps, he wasn't interfering with them in any way, all they had to do was ignore him.

Same as in your case, go back, don't let one little princess child put you off.

Think the angry family did complain to the manager before they left.

Its disgusting, I'd be complaining AND making a point of going back there!

Eulalia for you.
I had this a couple of weeks ago, DS was in a swimming pool, it was childrens times which are a 3 hour slot and he was splashing, not anyone but just with me and DH and an old lady got out and went up to the lifeguard pointed at DS and complained.
But the lifeguard just shrugged his shoulders.
I gave her the dirtiest filthiest look i could.
Its so annoying and frustrating and i think you should definately write a letter and complain about the manager and include the 3 other mums as witnesses.

I would write and complain - lay it on thick - so many places make it difficult for you to enjoy some family time out and you thought you had found a great place to be able to take all your childen too - I lay it on with lots of disappointed, shame etc....

I would also mention that the manager failed to identify himself as such and it was actually up to other staff to tell you who it was.

I would mention everything you have told us here - especially the part about the other child being instructed by her parents to assault your child - goes to spoiling what should have been a lovely day out.

Mention that you made the angry family aware your child had special needs and how disappointed and upset you were that they could not be accepting - instead instruct their older larger child to assault your child.

also with jimjams here - why let ignorant intolerant people stop you from going places ......

we had a similar incident to the restaurant that jj mentions - we were at a club - 6pm - lots of children having their meals - family time.... older couple getting very pissed off with my dds chatting and two boys behind them playing with their glasses and cutlery whilst waiting for their meal..... if the woman of the couple could have pursed her lips into a cats bum face any further, I think her cheeks could have disappeared.

eidsvold

Swimming pools/beaches are a bit of a nightmare too. Lots of splashing, kicking the water etc. Also he likes to jump in the water and tends to practically jump on top of people.

Have done a draft of the letter. I pointed out that I chose not to complain about the rude dad. He said that about hitting my son before he knew but that is still inexcusable for anyone to say that regardless of the circimstances.

Can anyone tell me about insurance? They may say they are liable for injuries to a child in the park. It is a private hotel. However most places seem to have disclaimers all over hte place whereby a child injures themself, particularly in a potentially dangerous place.

I said that things get knocked over in a beer garden all the time and couldn't resist getting a bit sarky.... in that its OK for drunk adults to knock things over becasue they've got the money to buy more beer and that is what is they are interested in, not keeping small boys happy.

Haven't told dh any of this as he'd blow his top and we'd definately not be going back. Still not sure if I want to or not as I'd feel uncomfortable, and besides its not a place I regularly go to anyway.

be careful how you phrase it becuase they could come back with health and safety as an excuse - however here is no excuse for the behaviur of he staff - or the staff not intervening whilst a man shouts at you.

thats the way i would go.

To be fair to the pub and other parents I wouldn't be happy with another child throwing things around. It's just a matter of time before a child gets hurt. Sounds like they didn't handle it very well but I do think they had a point.

I mentioned health and safety early on but said that he was being adequately supervised at all times. In other words I, my sister and the 3 mums were watching the situation and that we could have been left alone to deal with any problems. If one of hte kids got dirt in his eyes then the mum was OK about it becasue I'd already talked to her about it. I mean can't we make our own decisions about this?

I know I am not going to get anywhere though at the end of the day because Health and Safety rules the bloody world. My main complaint was the managers rude and unprofessional manner and the fact that he gave me no chance to resolve the situation. It was easier for him to just chuck us out.

Eulalia - I am sorry that you nd your family had such an unpleasant experience.
Just to answer your question about insurance:
yes, they have a responsibility to children playing in the park. (The disclaimers are merely an attempt to minimise their responsibility, but it doesn't remove their responsibility.) Under the terms of their insurance they are (no doubt) required to minimise the risks to children playing in the park (They also have a general responsibility in law to reduce risks, but the responsibilities under their insurance are no dobt more stringent). They also have rsponsibilities under health and safety legislation.
Theycould probably argue that under any of these responsibilities, in order to reduce their risk of being sued for injury/prosecuted under H&S legislation/having their insurance invalidated, they have to act if/when they receive a complaint or observe someone behaving in a dangerous way (for example, throwing things around). Of course, I am not saying that this was the case with your son, but they might well say they had a duty to intervene to prevent a "dangerous" situation continuing - if the boorish family did complain, then they might worry that a claim might follow.
Of course, this would not excuse any rudeness on his part and wouild not necessarily necessitate anyone being asked to leave of course. But you oculd try and deal with this possibility in your letter - i.e. there was never any danger to anyone because &c&c&c.
hth

Eulalia - I know it might seem OTT, but notwithstanding that the mums said they were OK with it, the risk of a claim still lies with the owner/manager.

Surely children should be able to throw a few bark pieces around witout being threatened with health and safety? Yes sure it can get into peoples eyes, but so what? Children get far too few bark pieces in their eyes these days as far as I am concerned.

I think that i wouldn't of been to happy if a child was throwing bark at my kids sorry.The children could have got it in their eyes and it wouldn't of made it any less painful because your son has autism.
I do understand about autism honest I do and don't want to fall out with you but that could of harmed somebody else.
My best friends brother has autism and her son has asburgers.So I am not attacking you I promise.Just think they will just say it was dangerous behavior and they couldn't let it continue.
However he could have been more polite and said I can't allow your child to do that and could you please stop it or you will have to leave.
I know it is difficult.
I would think about it for a few days.He wasn't asked to leave because he has autism it was because he was doing something that could have harmed others.

my brother got bark in his eye and nearly lost his sight.
Kids just aren't allowed to be kids anymore without health and saftey being threated.

I have two boys and the other day they were stopped climbing on top of a train that they have played on many times because one child fell off and cracked their head open. Our local pub has steps leading to the garden and we have to go out the front door now and walk aroung because a child fell down the stairs. There are so many people taking places to court these days that they are all so frigtened

Eulalia, in this particular instance I don't think I would make a written complaint but just not go there in future. You can only really complain about the manner in which you were spoken to and since he did not use offensive language or anything, I don't think you will achieve anything but by prolonging the whole situation, you're making yourself feel even more upset about it.

I don't know, easy to say if you don't have a child with autism I suppose but can you just shrug it off this time and clock it up to experience? The world is full of idiots and we'll all bump up against them now and again. Perhaps next time you can make up your mind to respond directly to the person who complains (manager etc). I think if my dd bothered people noticably, I would probably just leave quietly TBH, I wouldn't like her picking up on people's annoyance.