Language for Thinking

[lougle]

Poltergoose very kindly sent me LfT and I have been reading through it.

I have a question:

The assessment pages have shaded boxes in the different Language levels (ABC) next to various questions.

Are those shaded boxes indicating that the particular question is not scored for that level? Or that it is? Or something completely different?

There is no reference anywhere that I can see, to the significance of the shadings.

Just ordered, cant wait!

DD1's favourite phrase is 'accidents happen'. She always says it in a sing-song voice with her hands thrown up in the air. It took practice!

Ive just realised just how much I do modify my own language for ds too, without even realising I do it, which cant really be helpful for him, when he encounters the rest of population who don't. I also use my hands and gestures quite a bit too.

It's very useful to teach kids a set response if they don't know.
Saves them flailing and giving up/guessing/getting angry/annoyed.
A very effective technique we use in Precision Teaching is to teach the kids to say 'pass' when they don't know something. We move on and then come back to the 'pass' problem later.

It's great to hear them say it confidently and calmly.#

Viking, English is not the first language of many of the kids I work with either. Yes, I worry much less about syntactic transpositions from other language than novel ones. For instance, lots of languages use an adjective after the noun so wouldn't worry about this. Obviously you need to be totally familiar with the other language (as I am).

We use LFT in another language though and this works just as well if you have someone who is confident about translating as they go along. I have been thinking of approaching LFT for a formal translation (when I get the time). It would work well in other languages too I am sure. I speak French and could easily envisage administering in French.

'I've just realised just how much I do modify my own language for ds too, without even realising I do it, which cant really be helpful for him, when he encounters the rest of population who don't. '

Exactly Claw and although this is fine, we need to realise that this sort of scaffolding isn't always going to be there. When I do LFT with assistants, it gets them to see very quickly how much they interpret for the children they work with. Again, that's fine but in therapy we need to address areas of need and attack them according to protocol I set out. It works.

Thanks moondog. It is good to have some reasurance that i am not completely off base with this. I am fluent in the community lang. So i am aware when dd is using 'appropriate in first language' oddities. I have tried her in the community language and she scores much better, although there was a time when that language was slightly 'odd' aswell. Seems appropriate now though, do i'm hoping some structured work with lft will improve her english.

Again many thanks for sharing your wisdom

Thanks Moondog, can I ask how do you get kids to understand words such as 'later'.

Ds has no concept of this and its causing him problems. Later is quite a common word used by adults when speaking to children, but when said to ds, it transpires in his mind to people being horrible to him and telling lies! For example ds "can I do whatever' adult 'later', because he has no concept of what this means, they are telling lies and being horrible!

Its not a word I would use, as I know ds has no understanding of it, we have always used 'after xxxxx' or how many sleeps instead of 'later'.

Aw Claw, Things like that are pretty fundamental and even generic-standard provision-wise for children with social communication difficulties.

How badly your ds has been failed!

When did he last see a SALT for therapy? Could you get the cerebra grant to cover a bit, even if it is a SALT to come and listen to your concerns and issues and give YOU some strategies, rather than work with him directly if he isn't up to it?

I would probably do lots of time-sequencing work, planning, Moondog calendar, even visual timetables and pointing to the 'later' activity, making sure it is one that isn't so important to him so he doesn't get anxious he might not get it. And then revisit and remind him.

And lots of pairing of the word. So he asks for an ice-cream I can say 'you can have one later, after dinner' etc.

That kind of thing!?

You need to be more precise.
'Later' is an elastic term and one kids can't trust adults to use consistently.
Two key issues, understanding time in the short term and in the long term.
Short term, I recommend a Timetimer or Joseph Joseph pie timer.
Long term, the moondog calendar as sStar says.
I have posted at length on these in these section so do a search under my name and it should all be there.

These are the first things I make sure a child has. How will you understand language relating to time if you can't grasp time?
It's essential.

I've just ordered the language for thinking book that Lougle recommended last night. I hope it's ok to join in? I was hoping the instructions were in the book but having read the posts I'm thinking that I need to ask moondog for them?

Star he has never seen a SALT for therapy.

Last time he was assessed by NHS SALT in 2010, his sems and voc was 0.04 centile. She left some DIY work sheets, had no contact with school for over a year. There is absolutely no record of school having done any of the worksheets with him or any SALT programme.

Private SALT assessment in March 2011, his sems and vocab on 1st centile

When I complained NHS SALT re-assessed 7 months later and his sems and vocab were now on 75th centile! He was discharged from SALT service. (another story of saying they provided a service, although they cannot provide any evidence of this)

He hasn't had a SALT assessment since.

Hi Daisyfield, glad you found us!

Thanks Star and Moondog, ds will not use timers or visual timetables, these are for 'babies'. He has no concept of time, past or present, doesn't know days of week etc. We still have to work in counting sleeps.

However I will not derail this thread any further, I will go and do a search of Moondogs previous threads, thanks guys.

I think you need some expert advice for some laid back games and therapy that you can implement yourself over the holiday tbh.

I suspect (though not a SALT, as you know) that many strategies that he might need can be very easily implemented and probably more effectively, by a parent anyway, but he'll probably need someone qualified to either assess him, or ask you questions to get an idea where to start.

If he doesn't mind, video yourself lots doing LFT with him. That could be very useful for you later as you learn more about his language difficulties (which it will highlight as well as support), and it is good evidence for other possible battles in the future.

Then YOU use a time-timer.

Use it lots. okay ds, - 15minutes tidying the kitchen for mummy and then I can have a nice break with ds where we will share a hot-chocolate and a biscuit. I can't wait until 15mins, better get started.

If you are busy on the computer and he wants you/something from you, you can ask him how long you are allowed to have and ask him to set the timer for you so that you don't overrun or get distracted etc.

Thanks Star, at the moment im a bit in limbo as you know. Im hoping new school, onsite SALT, will equal some sort of support or at least some identification of difficulties. Until then, im just going to go about as much self help as I can, with recorded results as you say. There seem like just so many areas I need to cover and not just SAL, I think the LFT will do for now.

Fair enough. There always feels like there is loads to do and so little time. That's because there is. So prioritising is really important.

I truly hope this school has the expertise to see your ds for who he is and is problems for what they are and at last give you some signposting.

I typed that and posted before I had seen your timer comments, that shouldn't be too much of a problem to fit in, especially the bit about him using the timer on me, if he can use it on me, it obviously isn't just for babies! I think he would love that!

Well trying to use pokemon cards has backfired on me! they simply cannot be used to play anything other than playing pokemon, I am now involved in a very lengthy, game of pokemon!

Daisy, I'm happy to send if you message me.

dd2 is loving LFT (since I started recording her responses surrepticiously) although I think we are having too much of a dialogue with it. But it is fun

today's highlights: why is Billy's mum sitting under the umbrella: 'in case someone throws something splodgy'

In all seriousness, though, we got into quite an indepth discussion about the difference between a park and a beach (deceptively tricky!). dd2 and I both came up with an answer at the same time. She said: "I read your mind..... but I didn't really read your mind, it is just a phrase"!!!!

WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP

That reminds me (as you know it would!) of when DD2 came out of school one day and said ''I ran around at playtime and my hands got frrrreeezing and turned to blocks of ice.' Then she turned to me and said 'Mum, my hands didn't really turn to blocks of ice, that was a joke, they were just cold.'

Ooh handywoman, we did billy at rhe beach yesterday too and had a bit of a breakthrough I think.

When asked what would billys mum say if he ran into the water without telling her, I got 'billy, billy, where are you?' As an answer, so she understands that if billy didn't ask his mum wouldn't necessarily know where he is

she also said where ARE you not where IS you so I'm a v. Happy mummy

Ah that is brilliant