Tribunal - case management hearing - what happens?

[bjkmummy]

following on from my phone call from the tribunal earlier and how they are unimpressed with the LA the case now going in front of a judge and a case management hearing to be held next mon and tues? what happens? slightly worried about it. LA saying they are not ready, tribunal not happy as son out of school since June. LA trying to blame me they are not ready but think the tribunal have seen straight through that one.

Is the placement offer secure and do the LA know about it?

yes - the school in an independent specialist asd day school - its very known school and the LA place other children there. they have offered a place and the LA will know that this school would not offer a place unless they were absolutely sure teh childs needs could be met and there is a place. The school told me on monday morning they could offer a place so i did the request for changes immeadiately yesterday morning so LA aware. I have also now served the next version of the working document naming the school so teh LA are aware.

They have gambled that they would back me into a corner once my school choice said they couldnt meet his needs and i guess hoped that i would then accept tehri rubbish mainstream school suggestion or would go for an adjournment. The LA left it until the last possible moment to serve the letter about my school not able to meet need - they knew in december it could be a possibility but of course kept quiet.

so they are aware - granted it was only yesterday but they only let me know about school placement last weds so ive reacted very quickly. the LA are apparently upset because i have got independent reports that i want in the working document.

Does the tribunal know that the LA kept the inability of the school to meet needs a secret from you?

Did the tribunal say what the case management hearing was about? Is it going to be two whole days? What are the LA saying they are not ready for?

sorry worded that wrongly. it will take place on monday or tuesday and will be a telephone case management so could actually be quite quick - by the time it happens it will be 2 weeks to tribunal.

the LA are trying to say that i have changed my case which i havent. i have always said he needs a specialist school placement - it is the name of the placement that has changed. I have always said that the statement does not reflect all of his needs hence parts 2 and 3 need changing so the reports have been done for that.

the tribunal are concerned that the LA are not ready and dont seem to really know whats going on and have done very little. i highlighted how they have submitted edited documents, placing OT in part 6 and made it clear that I am ready, my reports are ready, my witnesses are ready - basically the LA have just done nothing and hoped i would back down but reality is that ive now named an independent school and have the witnesses and evidence to back it up - as they have done nothing, they probably realise that they need to get their backsides into gear and do something - they havent even sent their EP to see him since May and they have done nothing plus they have no seen the mountain of evidence that we have submitted. They are trying to deflect it back on me by my changing the school named but i get the distinct impression the tribunal are having none of it espeically as he has been out of school since June

Okay, so the telephone hearing is for the judge to decide whether or not to extend the timing to allow EP in and for the LA to view new school placement!?

The role of the tribunal panel is like peer reviewers. They are not supposed to be independent and impartial. They are supposed to be the peers of the LA, in a kind of monitoring role iyswim.

Who called this hearing, the LA or the tribunal?

i dont know if the LA want to send their EP in. The tribunal are calling the hearing. I dont think the LA need to see the school as they send lots of children there already but i guess the LA may argue they want more time to think about it hence my frustration as they have been thinking about things since last May

So say that! Write those things down now. All those points. Focus on why there is no justification for delay to the tribunal. Put the points in order. Quote documents by their date to support what you are saying.

With any luck the tribunal will just rule that the LA is being stupid and award new school before hearing.

Sometimes, LA's just take you to the end for no other reason that to encourage you to pass on the message that it's a bloody drawn out stamina-requiring exercise to any of your friends or people coming behind you.

star - you last point is a valid one and one i hadnt thought about.

my LA also have very few tribunals at all - we are a small county so they are very inexperienced. The SEN team are social worker background not education so actually dont have a clue what they are doing, their current solicitor has never attend ed a tribunal which says it all really. teh other week she tried to 'advise' me but her advice was completely wrong and someone on here wrote me a fab letter to write back to her quoting the code of practice and case law - not heard from her again

had an email earlier and they are doing the telephone case management hearing at 4pm on monday which has sent me into a panic as i will have all 3 children at home - 2 are ASD plus have 2 lots of school runs to do so wont get back until 3.45pm then need to calm down and destress to do the hearing at 4pm and pray that the kids behave which is going to be impossible - im hoping dh can come home for an hour or so whilst it goes on. may try and beg a friend to get my daughter and have her for tea so that breaks down the number of school runs i have to do to one.

re stars earlier question - the LA on the day of final submissions sent a letter to me in the post stating that my school could not meet my sons needs due to the large amnount of OT he needed - this letter i got on 16th january - 2nd special school said no and 3rd rubbish mainstream said yes and commented taht the OT was a non educational need. the working document is not yet finalised so the school actually cant meet his needs as he needs small classes size etc.

later that day at 4.30pm the LA solicitor started email their documents to me which was basically his statement and appendices which of course i already have - hidden in their documents was a letter from my school choice dated 19th dec saying the could not meet his needs. the school also sent a further letter on 11th january saying that as his needs were more complex than fiorst thought (they had seen the working document) they couldnt meet his needs and they felt that it was such an important issue they were unable to compromise on it.

i dont think the LA have gone out of their way to highlight to the tribunal that they sat on this letter for nearly month and teh fact that they sent the letter to reach me on the day of final submissions isnt very good either.

the case management hearing is to deal with my application to change the parental school choice in part 4 and my changes to my witnesses. thats it at the moment - its says the LA are in agreement to the hearing. I think the LA solicitor has tried to contact me earlier but havent left a message

Fgs why would they have it at 4pm. It is the worst time ever for a parent! they are pretty unbelievable. I have done two tribunals and it is one of the most stressful all consuming thing I have ever done. Stay focused and calm you are nearly there and definitely list all the reasons why there should not be a delay!

It's probably at 4 p.m. because the judge is dealing with full hearings during the day.

thats a fair point veritate. ive got things sorted the best i can now so my little panic is over. suppose im also anxious as i know i am going to spend all day tomorrow worrying about it. cant believe that it is now just over 2 weeks to the tribunal - went so slowly in the beginning but now has just rushed by since xmas. really need this tribunal to go ahead as son now not attending school at all

bk, for all you know there will be no hearing after tomorrow!?

Thinking of you......

Good luck bjkmummy. Let us know how it goes!

BJK good luck
Just checking you know its a judge who does the case management - not anyone who will be sitting on the panel
Judge will simple be sorting out procedural matters to make sure that the hearing can go ahead and everyone is organised and won't end up with last minute adjournment.
LA are probably saying need more time because changed school - but if I remember its a similar type of school so you should make clear you have not changed the type of school (ind SS) only the name. That change is because 1st choice not meet need and LA known this since Dec but not tell you.
Did any LA prof visit your original choice? If not then they have no need to visit your second choice. Its only if an expert needed to repeat a visit - so if you know no-one has seen your child or done a visit to check suitability at ANY school make sure the Judge knows that.
Also look at tribunal rules on SEND website in advance as this is what Judge will be working to.
If LA actually want more time because they have not done their job say so. Say there have been no visits since you started the appeal etc.
Point out they are legally represented so there is no excuse for delay on their side and they do not deserve to have more time when they knew your DS is out of school and time was of the essence. Your DS should not have to suffer for their lack of preparation.
If Judge is minded to delay make sure its as short as poss e.g. EP can arrange to visit school within 1-2 weeks
The Judge cannot decide anything about school choice etc etc - this is for the Tribunal Panel - the Judge is only going to look at the paperwork and witnesses being in order so its not a waste of court time and money further down the road.

Great advice from Agnes.

Here is a link to the rules

they sent the LA sen officer and autism outreach person to look at my original school as it was a brand new school - only opened in sept 2012 but they delayed that as long as possible and went in oct in the last week of term - took them until dec to give me any kind of feedback on the school.

the school i am now naming is well known to the LA - we have no special schools here so if a special school needed will be out of county and possibly independent. the LA have 5 other children in this school - my best friends son is there and no one visited from the LA when she wanted him placed there due to the school being known to the LA. the only reaosn i guess the LA will object will be the cost as the mainstream school will of course be cheaper. the LA have at this stage made no application to try and change their witnesses. i just need this tribunal to go ahead - i know they could delay it but then trying to get all of my witnesses to be available on the same date could become a nightmare!

will look at the rules - my son has now further detoriated and is not attending school at all

Hope it goes well today, honk honk

GP has signed him off for a further 4 weeks this morning due to his high anxiety and vomiting so fingers crossed it goes well later x