statements for genuinely naughty kids but not for SN!

[moleskin]

Hi just wanted peoples views on this and didn't want to post on AIBU. I have a friend who's boy has developmental delay, speech delay, only just walking etc. His first application for a statement for reception next yead was turned down shockingly!!

Someone I know has a 12 yr old boy who has always been typically naughty. Expelled permenantly from high school after few weeks and social services involved with family. He was assessed by ed pysch as good intelligence and no SN at all. Anyway to get him out of PRU and back to school SS have put in for a statement for him so he can attend a private school and board there!! God knows how much that will cost.

I know what a struggle some of you guys have getting statements and am shocked that this family are getting one for their son who tbh could do with a bit of a discipline! Whilst I realise that SN can be hidden disabilities this boy genuinely doesn't have any SN, he just seems to want to be cool by acting up! In front of friends.

How typical is this of kids with no SN getting a statement? I know my dd2 would do much better in a private school and smaller classes for reception next year but also know we have no hope of getting that!

starfish you are correct nothing is ever black and white x

for ds his behaviour has improved dramatically with a school that understands his needs and realises anxiety has a lot to answer for.

That said, as he gets older there is the possibility that with hormonal changes, emotional changes at senior school, not being able to cope with demands as a teen could well have the reverse effect and my ds may end up in the same situation as your ds or this lad we are on about.

It is never good to judge or assume anything because it can bite you back hard x

Thank you coff33pot, I never thought DS would need a PRU, but am thankful it is there, is small, has good teachers and is supportive and communicative. xxx it is a very unmapped road at times with our children.

Starfish don't read bochs thread in a negative way. I can understand as the thread has hit a nerve x

But boch is talking about "standard" procedure for a badly behaved child. PRUs were normally used for children with these issues.

Not your child. Things have changed and there are now exceptional circumstances now where children with asd DX are benefited by PRU. it's not suitable for all but for some yes.

I didn't take her post to be how you think x

Not upset with bochead, just has reinforced how other people see PRU's, it is true, even my own sister has been reluctant to tell friends that DS is in one.

Just hit a nerve, been rough weekend and sleep deprived! xx

I am on my phone so I doubt that made any sense lol so I will put it bluntly....

Get a grip girl and shake off that sad face! You done right by your boy and who gives a what the "RL" muppets think hmmmm?

That made me coffe! Thanks x

I know what you mean star... I find it really hard to tell anyone my youngest has ADHD because of the stigma and the assumptions around it.

I know wasuup, it is very hard and then you feel guilty for caring what they think! but we all do our best, just need to keep reminding ourselves :) x

Really hope tribunal result goes your way wasuup x

Starfish - my own son was sent to a PRU aged 6. My bitter sarcasm obviously didn't translate well to the written word on this occasion.

My point was supposed to be about how LA's go the cheapest provision every time. It's only a matter of time before DS rinses and repeats the PRU once more, as that's waaay cheaper than the alternatives for kids with sensory issues like mine.

I'm very, very sorry if you found my post offensive in anyway. It really wasn't intended to be that way.

School and professionals have now admitted that my ds was sent to a PRU because they didn't know what else to do with him and needed a 'breathing space'. As it happened it rather backfired on them because there were no outbursts there due to the very small class size (3). This has proven that big classes don't work for him and we will not be going along with their plans to send him to a school with 1000+ pupils. Some PRU's can work well for some ASD children but it does depend very much on the staff.

Bochead that's ok, was very wobbly last night, partly I think because I know the PRU is good for DS at the moment but have no idea where we go from there, our county doesn't have any private or state settings that 'fit' DS and it does make me worry about "what next?"

is this 'private' school actually an independent special school OP?

PRUs also cater for vulnerable children who aren't able to attend mainstream school, rather than just the 'typically naughty' (to use the OP's words)

If our experience is anything to go by, I get the impression it is not uncommon to refuse a statement for children entering reception (even with very apparent developmental delays), and force everyone to do all they can without one. Eventually (if the schools best still cannot adequatly support the child) the evidence will be there to convince the LEA that a statement is needed after all. Forcing the school and child to fail is damaging for every one, best I don't get on my band wagon about that!!.
As for the older child presumably the system somewhere along the line has already failed him- lets hope the new school (however expensive) helps. All childen with statements by definition have SEN.

I should perhaps have said that my son was 'judged' as naughty and non compliant by other parents in the early days- and the 'just needs a good thrashin' thrown at me, so I too feel upset by this post.

When you start school, without the social understanding that is inate in NT children (and teachers) life is very confusing and upsetting. You get into trouble, can't do anything right, get pushed around, injured, blamed and punished for things you do not understand (or indeed had no involvment in), and other children know they can blame you for whatever goes wrong. All this CREATS behavioural difficulties. Ds learnt to fear some adults. He learnt to cry to get help. He learnt to show off to get friends. He is still very over sensitive to getting into trouble. He still keeps asking 'am I being good?

Ds has autism, ADHD and LD and is now in special school. If he did not also have severe learning disabilities there may not have been a suitable school to support him without going outside county provision. Punishing would not have got him talking earlier, or understanding others better, or get him able to think ahead, or fitting in better in a complex situation like a playground. Supporting does help.

I hope your friends child gets the help and support she needs.

Magso... "Am I being good"... That made me fill up.
Trying so hard!...God ...if only people realised just how hard our kids are trying to understand and get it right
Bless your lovely boy

Troutsprout, thanks he is lovely and he does try very hard! He is 13 and still needs to ask.

Hello. The OP has asked us to delete this thread (see her apologetic post at 19.02 yesterday) but we can see it's moved on somewhat since then.

We're still inclined to delete, given how upsetting some of the posts have been for some to read - unless there are a lot of objections...?

I am coming into this late, but one important thing to consider is history. The child you refer to who has been declined a statement is essentially new to the school system entirely. His refusal may likely be because without any idea how he actually functions IN school, any suggestion about what support he needs is speculation at best.

The other child, on the other hand, has a lengthy history with the school system. Exclusion and expulsion are very rigidly defined and limited, and a set chain must occur before this is even tabled. I guess that you are a pediatric mental health and developmental specialist and have spent many hours assessing this young man to know that he is "naughty" and doesn't have a complex disorder like PDA or ODD, correct? I am not familiar with the method of "I know both of his parents" as an assessment modality - it must be new.

Both of my children, who we knew had challenges long before they started school, started without statements (and both had been in SN preschool programs). We felt it was prudent to see how they managed before we tried to guess the degree of support they would require.

Sometimes it is prudent to spend less time worrying what happens in others' gardens and more time on your own housekeeping, iykwim.

Helen, I personally am of the mind that this thread is useful because a stereotype has been successfully challenged. However, my DD is in a very good special school, and I imagine if she had a BESD statement at a PRU I may well be more emotionally affected by it.

I'm just marking a place really for people to catch up with your post.

I also think it is a useful thread.

It is a useful thread people might learn from it.

People might learn not to ask questions though if they feel they will be shouted at and personal attacks made against them.

It wasn't really apologetic, was it, Helen?

The op was just miffed because she didn't get nice responses, and a few people called her on her appalling 'needs a bit of discipline' tag for a child whose needs are exceptional enough for the state to be considering a residential placement.....

Any child that is unable to access education, for whatever reason, doesn't need anyone spitting 'unentitled' bile in their direction.

But, sure, delete, and let the op's ego remain intact, and let her believe it was the rest of the sn board at fault for not being nice. Irony itself.

I'm very late to this thread and despite being the first thread in MNSN when I'd been tempted to hand out biscuits, I'm glad others have put the OP straight.

So a child expresses as having poor impulse control, anger issues or other socially unacceptable behaviours for whatever reason, be it SN, a poor home life or lack of moral direction. Ignoring them won't make them go away. Leaving them to fail in mainstream school with no support isn't going to keep them from a life in prison, at great expense. That statement and that PRU placement and all the support that comes with it might just help to make a difference in the long term.