statements for genuinely naughty kids but not for SN!

[moleskin]

Hi just wanted peoples views on this and didn't want to post on AIBU. I have a friend who's boy has developmental delay, speech delay, only just walking etc. His first application for a statement for reception next yead was turned down shockingly!!

Someone I know has a 12 yr old boy who has always been typically naughty. Expelled permenantly from high school after few weeks and social services involved with family. He was assessed by ed pysch as good intelligence and no SN at all. Anyway to get him out of PRU and back to school SS have put in for a statement for him so he can attend a private school and board there!! God knows how much that will cost.

I know what a struggle some of you guys have getting statements and am shocked that this family are getting one for their son who tbh could do with a bit of a discipline! Whilst I realise that SN can be hidden disabilities this boy genuinely doesn't have any SN, he just seems to want to be cool by acting up! In front of friends.

How typical is this of kids with no SN getting a statement? I know my dd2 would do much better in a private school and smaller classes for reception next year but also know we have no hope of getting that!

Thanks for the answers to my question star and Agnes much appreciated. I've asked for this to be removed as didn't want it to cause an arguement like I originally stated

'I know what a struggle some of you guys have getting statements and am shocked that this family are getting one for their son who tbh could do with a bit of a discipline'

You don't think that this sentence is judgemental and not asking a question?
I have a lot to do with children that have a range of needs in my job, and have done so for a long time. The child you think just needs discipline obviously has a more complex set of needs if SS have put in for a statement, even if you think it is baloney.

Special "educational" needs comes in all shapes and sizes and statements are for those who need support with their Educational needs.
His naughtiness, whatever the cause obviously has a huge impact on his learning.
You could argue that if he had better support earlier than maybe he would still be in m/s school?
SS should be confidential, so i am assuming the reasons for involvement are not known by the OP?
Hopefully the CHILD in question has found someone to fight his corner & get the education provision that he needs.
Yes, statements and provision is far too hard to come by, but lets not be judgemental when those get support needed.

moleskin - Just think what a different reception you'd received if you had just limited your OP to asking for advice & help for your friends ds who may need a statement.

One case has no bearing on the other & your OP does sound unkind & judgemental.

Exactly.

Ditto^ - But yes I have had to fight for all 3 of mine with SEN and have been under a lot of pressure and stress as had yet another tribunal this week, the last thing I needed to see was such a judgemental post when people judge me everyday, by a parent who reports they have a child with difficult behaviours but says they won't do anything to support their child. So yes this is supposed to be a supportive forum but surely those that post should think before they do so.

Another tribunal ?

For there to be SS/PRU and residential involved, for whatever reasons things have gone spectacularly tits up with this lad that goes way beyond typical naughtiness. btw OP ed psych isn't the be all and end all for diagnosis, it's the paed/psych would would diagnose. being academically intelligent doesn't mean a child doesn't have SN, some cases of HFA/AS and language disorder can be missed for a surprisingly long time by schools etc.

If it helps ds initially had a statement applied for by school for behaviour. Both EP and behaviour specialist said he had extreme challenging behaviour and that was all that was wrong with him (as if that wasn't enough!) he was classed as naughty, non compliant and disruptive but highly intelligent and that he just couldnt be bothered. the more they tried their enforcing time outs, consequences and exclusions the worse he got. He was awarded a high statement of 25hrs for band 3 behaviour so yea a statement can be given for that reason.

Turned out I was right and he had complex asd of as/ADHD/scd/ and despite intelligence had Spld in reading and writing.

Some ppl say if a child is disruptive and makes a nuisance of themselves then they get noticed for a statement. Sadly I believe that as mine was one of them.

You don't need a DX for a statement is educational need not SN :)

This child by the sound of it needs his statement as much as the next child and it could well be a case of care vs residential as others have said.

Ineffective parenting alone won't often make a child need residential school. But it will unmask and worsen any underlying SEN. This is probably a dual funding placement: day fees via statement, boarding fees via social services.

TBH, the only people who really, really annoy me are the judgy-pants types who look down their noses at my (very well-brought up ) autistic/adhd dc whilst simultaneously ignoring rude, unkind behaviour coming from their NT dc.

I can guarantee you that this boy is not just naughty. Seriously, if SS is looking at a resi placement, then the educational professionals have demonstrated a need for a 'waking day curriculum.' In otherwords, it has been convincingly argued that the child needs the consistency of boarding school for his educational progress.

I can't imagine asking for my child to go resi. I do know that to do so, I would have to be convinced it was in her interests, as I'm sure these parents are.

WRT the boy who hasn't been given a Statement, it often isn't about diagnosis, but about demonstrating that the child needs support that exceeds the resources the school has.

At his age, much will be about how 'active' he is. If he is a fairly passive lad, who will need support to learn, but not supervision for his own safety, then he'll need less support than a child who would escape the classroom and climb over the fence (hello DD1 at 4.9 )

mariamma I think I have met them !

Yes star - against refusal to make a statement - my youngest can't read and write is on the p scales, year 2, ADHD, possible ASD, dyspraxia, dyslexia, general learning difficulties, has already had a high level of support and still can't write his own 6 letter name - you know how it is......

oh I forgot to mention the working memory and auditory processing that are also a bit rubbish as well.

I wasn't aware that an EP could dx a child?

No as far as I know an EP can't DX all they can so is "suggest" from past experiences and put forward an educational plan for the school. And if the school do apply for a statement send there findings in a report which tells me there is more to this child than just naughty.

Yes I think that too coff33, if this boy has only had an assessment from an EP saying no SN then surely that means he's not had any formal assessment for a dx of any SN. He might or he might not have any SN but he's not went through any proper avenues or official tests/assessments/observations to get a dx in the first place to be turned down and told he has no sn iyswim?

Oh this thread has hit a nerve. My DS1 is 14 attends a PRU, has a statement, recently dx with aspergers. Had a terrible time in mainstream comp, they really do not " hand" out statements and specialist provision for children that don't need it. This thread has got to me and am really wondering that most "real life people" don't have a clue or want to understand my children.

Most real life people jump to unfounded and unfair judgements and conclusions that much is true. You'd think we would be safe on this forum from it but no, it appears not.

The "standard" solution for a badly behaved child with parents who can't or won't impose any sensible boundaries is a PRU, combined with a relative acting as an unpaid foster carer.

Residential education is only EVER considered in exceptional cases as a/ It's expensive & b/LA's don't want to send out the message to other parents that this might even be a potential option over their own in-house special units.

NOONE knows what goes on behind closed doors. Unless you have attended EVERY meeting, were there at the birth, have unfettered access to ALL medical notes & the details of EVERY intervention attempted at home, at school and at the playscheme down the road, then actually you don't know why this child is receiving the intervention that they are. The same goes for parenting. (Daily Mail type opinions on adhd are really mild compared to some of the potential diagnoses families regularly keep quiet. e.g The parents of a personality-disordered or schizophrenic child would be CRAZY to tell people, given societies predjudices & how they can negatively impact on positive outcomes for these children)

This course of action has been decided upon by a TEAM of multi-displinary professionals, from social workers to doctors - who will have had to run it through all sorts of long winded "procedures, procceses and pathways", obtained approval from the bean counters etc etc to get it approved. The parents also have to agree that it is the best course of action. LOTS of things will have been tried first - after all the child is 12.

Most children are refused a statement as a matter of course at the first attempt by cash strapped LA's - especially at reception age. Schools are leant on to try and handle far more than they should "in house". Appealing the refusal of the initial application has become almost standard practice in many LA's. It doesn't mean that the child's statementing status won't change as they grow older. (Wassup3000 - hang in there! Remember the fight for appropriate support is a marathon not a sprint)

Nationally only 2% of children have statements (in my area it's 1.5%). A statement is only issued when a child's needs differ so wildly from the norm that LOTS of additional expertise and/or resources are needed to enable a child to access the national curriculum and obtain an adequate (not gold-plated!) education. This criteria is based upon NEED not diagnosis, and the range of needs impacting a child's ability to access the curriculum can be as varied as humanity itself.

Please OP - you have a choice as to whether you wish to be a part of the problem or the solution with regards to the societal predjudices so many of our children face right now. I can only hope that you'll read the responses to this thread and go away and make the right choice.

Just want to say, my DS is attending a PRU, he is not badly behaved, just does not ' fit' into mainstream or special school..

It is never black or white.

Ridiciously upset by this thread. PRU = parents who do not impose boundaries...

:(