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Gove does it again....

144 replies

StarlightMcKenzie · 24/10/2012 19:37

and so does the Daily Mail

Main Board discussion here

OP posts:
mymatemax · 25/10/2012 11:46

the free school near us has an "inclusion officer" rather than a SENCO they aim to support the child within the class rather than withdrawing constantly for SEN group work.
There are elements of what they say that worry me but on the whole I think their model is more likely to be a successful inclusive education within ms as apposed to the local Comp who talk of how much time they cna tick off of a statement while the child is in nurture group, maths catch up, reading catch up etc etc... i dont believe that is either inclusive or effective.
I'm glad in a way i dont have to make this decision for ds2

schobe · 25/10/2012 12:14

His mum thinks he needs a smack: some mail PR

I'm torn but am loving Moondog coming out like Xena warrior princess Grin

I DO like the use of the phrase 'early intervention' regardless of whether it will be interpreted correctly. At least that's the right NAME for one agenda we're all interested in.

inappropriatelyemployed · 25/10/2012 12:17

Gove a hero? Seriously Moondog??

You have my utmost respect for your help and posts but if there is one man who typifies what you have suggested as an every school is ok for everyone approach, it is Gove.

Gove has complete tunnel vision about what education should be and it is based on some outdated proto-Victorian idea of education as knowledge based learning rather than encouraging intelligence: it's about learning lists of kings and queens and quoting Latin because this is how he was taught. Thus it is how everyoneshould be taught.

Unless of course Gove decides you're not up to that and then you can just be trained to be a car mechanic or something else less 'academic'. The earlier we 'weed out' those types the better, then the special lovely middle class kids can get the special lovely list learning all to themselves.

We don't live in the world of Mr Chips, yet Gove believes the social hierarchy is the natural order of things. He wants to reinforce the status quo not challenge it. Why? Because that suits the Tory model of economy and society.

His views are horrifically right-wing on all social issues. This is about entrenchment of the middle classes and not social mobility.

Badvoc · 25/10/2012 12:21

Gove is a right wing privately educated oxbridge moron.
But he understands what state schools need?
Agree completely with inappropriately employed.

StarlightMcKenzie · 25/10/2012 12:23

I was following the development of The Portland Academy once. Their sponsor Stephen Heppell is inspirational. I remember reading their very draft exclusion policy. It pretty much stated 'nobody should be excluded at any time for any reason'. I wonder if they've kept that!

OP posts:
mymatemax · 25/10/2012 12:31

starlight - you are right, only time will tell but they are making the right noises & need to be given a chance. The MS LEA alternative isnt great & there is no SS provision for those with mild/mod LD

Veritate · 25/10/2012 12:43

Gove is doing his best to reduce spending on children with SEN and disability. Does anyone seriously think he is going to magic up the very hefty amounts of money that this little idea would require? I suspect that the reality is that he has no intention whatsoever of doing anything and it's just another Daily Mail pleaser.

moondog · 25/10/2012 12:45

You know how pathetic you lot think that SEN provision is?
Well it's about a thousand times worse than you think.
That's something only someone on the inside can really know and dear God, if my child was at the mercy of some of the endemic malpractice and incompetence I would... words fail me.

And you think more of the same will make it better??

Wake up. Gove is your last chance.
If Labour get back in again, the toilet will not only be flushe but the lid closed, and lights put out.

StarlightMcKenzie · 25/10/2012 12:53

I'm not sure anyone here thinks that the answer is a Labour Government. I certainly have no faith (in their current form anyway) in their ability to meet the needs of my SEN child.

I don't think that is what this is about, but Gove does represent the current party that appears to be intent on removing provision from the vulnerable in favour of those who already have plenty. Some of that provision may well be not worth having and wasteful, but that is mostly to do with lack of accountability and quality. Getting rid totally won't make things better, even if the lack of accountability is removed (in favour of nothing to be accountable to or about).

OP posts:
Veritate · 25/10/2012 13:06

Moondog, how on earth do you think that Gove is going to make SEN provision better? The only proposals he has come up with quite clearly will make it worse.

schobe · 25/10/2012 13:14

Whole paradigm needs a re-think.

bochead · 25/10/2012 14:35

It hurts to admit it, but we are up against a general public that just don't give a damn. Not giving a s*&t isn't a party political issue.

Labour's nanny state will just continue it's relentless crushing of any dissent from the approved carrot hymn sheet.

The Tories have been summed up rather nicely by IE, so I needn't repeat what she's said.

moondog · 25/10/2012 16:11

That's a very nice presentation Schobe (love the graphics) and he raises some valid points but it is vague vision led stuff and what kids need now is the nuts and bolts at the coalface approach.
What is the nature of assessment and who gets the results?
How is progress measured?
What happens when there is no progress?

The present system means that the poor kid who can't even read and write or add 2 +2 is made to sit in Religious Education and discuss Christianity and Hinduism because the National Curriculum says so. He will be seen by a steady stream of professional inteferers, none of whom will have anything verty useful to add but come the review, the parent will be bamboozled by an impressive sheaf of papers.

It's all very well advocatating individualism and divergent thinking but, as a community, we have to think about core skills-being part of a group, understanding how time works and how to manage it, having the basic rights of literacy and numeracy. These matter and can and should be within the reach of nearly every child.

Sal Khan (of the brilliant Khan Academy) says many of the same things but offers practical ways to implement them.
His new book

The trouble with going down the 'unlock your creativity' route is that it lets the malingerers and inadequates off the hook even more as Vicki Snider expounds so brilliantly in her book

Then the fact that your kid can't read, write, express himself or know where he is meant to be from day to day can be brushed aside because hey! he is attending a 'nurture group' (was this a joke? Do these things really exist) or he was expressing himself on a set of bongoes or getting in touch with his inner self in a padded cell sensory room.

Zig Engelmann knew this years ago.
Teaching kids in our needy system

What we have does not work.
It is a parastic industry whose continued existence depends on children continuing to fail.
If they didn't, these people would be our of a job.

StarlightMcKenzie · 25/10/2012 16:14

Moondog, I don't think there are many here that would disagree with that, but what makes you so sure that Gove will deliver it?

OP posts:
moondog · 25/10/2012 16:20

I follow all he says and does very closely.
No politician is perfect and none can change everything single handedly but I am happy with what he says and does.

Bochead, no use bleating about people not caring.
That's life.
People don't generally care about what doesn't affect them.
I don't care about many things-global warming, Israel, badger culling, X Factor, the Great British Bake Off, recycling, anti-smoking campaigns, designer handbags, fancy cars, and many many more things.

moondog · 25/10/2012 16:22

I do care about patchwork quilting, running, cooking, my goldfish, cleaning, ABA, teaching, ironing my knickers and keeping my garage tidy. Not many other people care about this stuff and why indeed should they?

ouryve · 25/10/2012 16:24

Face it, Gove's only remit is to make SEN provision cheaper. The only thing he will be praised by his party for improving is the visible short term balance sheet.

moondog · 25/10/2012 16:29

And so he bloody well should.
It's an outrage that so much of our money ha been frittered away with so little effect.
Enjoy

mymatemax · 25/10/2012 17:32

Moondog - you iron your Knickers, why?

mymatemax · 25/10/2012 17:33

just outed how very shappow i am, all that political posting & the thing that caught my attention was Moondogs knicker ironing

mymatemax · 25/10/2012 17:33

shallow

StarlightMcKenzie · 25/10/2012 17:33

Because she can't face slobbing on the sofa, even for 2 minutes, I expect! Wink

OP posts:
Triggles · 25/10/2012 17:46

you don't care about the great british bake off? hmmm... i enjoyed it Grin

moondog · 25/10/2012 17:49

I iron everything. I like it like that.
Insane I know. Grin

schobe · 25/10/2012 18:01

Oh god I iron nothing.

You see I think people misinterpret the divergent thinking stuff to their own ends - just as you describe. But I still think it's good, but just gets misappropriated.

I guess that can describe an awful lot of left-wing ideals and policy-making principles.

I agree with a lot of what you say re being practical and looking at what kids need NOW. Sometimes I do think that the only way a new paradigm will be born and be adopted in a more mainstream way will be via the greater freedom afforded by right-wing principles. Free schools being a case in point.

As Thomas Hardy says "If a way to the better there be, it exacts a full look at the worst".

Maybe that's why democratic political systems do pendulum from left to right over and over again. Oops I've accidentally fallen back into the vague woolly stuff, I can't help it. I am a human chocolate teapot.