I am having a bad day,I don't know what to do anymore.im at the end of my tether with both DC,and no one wants to help us.

[LiberteEgaliteFRIGGernite]

DD was supposed to be being assessed for spectrum disorders....6 months later....nothing.
She is getting harder to handle and I don't know what to do,I cannot cope with her.she is nearly four,and starting school in September.I can't wait.i worry for her,but equally can't wait to get her into school for 6hours a day.
I know how awful that sounds.

DS has a speech delay.he has made no progress in 6 months.i have had two paed appointments and a hearing rest,which is more than DD has had,but still,no actual help.

I don't know what to do.
I don't even know what I want from this thread.

And I'm bloody crying now.

Family support worker should come to you. They usually can.

Daughter needs hearing check now. GP/HV to refer.

Speech therapy might be self-referral, otherwise GP or HV can refer. If already on long w/list ask them to write and say it's urgent.
Both children, big language issues, should be priority. Children's centre sometimes do 'advice' from therapist, can be a way of shoving dc in front of SLT who can then see for themselves that it's urgent.

Also can email the council education dept and ask for input re ds from hearing impairment teacher (they do usually deal with little ones, and even if hearing test ok, there are auditory 'processing' disorders which they often know more about than the NHS do)

Sounds to me that you need Homestart. A volunteer will come and give you time to do what you want/need to do, will help the children play, whatever works best for you.

All the best. Sounds v hard.

Can I add . You are not a bad mother and you are perfectly entitled to be stressed.
Be a 'squeaky wheel' and get oiled.....send one email to all those people. Ask for a reply. If you dont get one, same time next week, repeat, asking very politely for a reply.
Our local Health Service now refuses to reply to emails for Data Protection reasons (!!?????WTF) so if yours try this, still email them, print it off and send a recorded delivery mail copy.

I am another who found 'How to talk so your kids will listen' really really good. Your local library should have it.

Its possible that your DD has a language processing issue so cant comprehend fully what you say to her re what not to do (cant really tell without SaLT assessment though). But I found doing pictures helped (doesnt have to be fancy; you can draw them yourself). re the times, my DS reponds fab to this but he manages better with a sound rather than the egg-timer- he can set the timer on my phone or on the cooker by himself now.

Then when you need a break, how about some computer/I-pad time for them. There are lots of educational types apps; many have free versions that can help with letter recognition, patterns, sequencing, shapes etc etc

maria why do you say DD needs a hearing check? She has no speech issues at all- she was speaking in full sentances at 18 months with perfect pronunciation...she's nearly four,and I am absolutely certain she can hear what I'm saying,she just doesnt want to hear what I'm saying...I guess.

DS, has had one hearing test,and is waiting for a second one (July) as he didn't respond to some of the high pitched noises.

We are on a waiting list for SALT the paed refered him when we first saw her months ago,we had another appointment with her a few weeks ago and she wrote to them again asking why he hadn't yet been seen...

I will try to get hold of the 'family support worker' and HV to follow up with DD,last time I spoke to him he was refering her but he said the person in charge was going on holiday,and that the waiting list was long already....

Sorry,I didn't refresh before replying! I'll just read the other responses!

thoughtben home start looks amazing...it's weird that I want to volunteer,and also desperately want their help,what's that about why do I feel more able to help someone else than to help myself?

Porridge thanks for the hug
The thing with DD is,if we set a timer,or an alarm,she will work out how to make it ring early...
she did it with her bedtime clock,its blue with a moon at night time,and glows orange with a picture of the sun in the morning,it was meant to help her stay in bed longer as she wakes at 4:30-5am.
within two days she had tampered with it,and brought it to our room proudly saying it was morning time now.it was 3am!.

She cannot bear to wait,she will do anything to avoid it.

Ds was like that with that clock. He either switched it off or chucked it across the room then got up anyway! Re waiting, I started with just a minute with ds, would say I will do x in one minute and totally ignore him for that minute. I then built it up and he will now wait for a reasonable amount of time (he is 6 though).
He is very hard work though, incredibly demanding of my attention. Dd is luckily very easy going and usually has to wait (another thing for me to feel guilty about).
Does your dd go to Pre school? Sounds like you could do with the break and perhaps she would learn some skills there.

First rule of kids who don't listen is make sure the ears work 100% correctly.

Hearing difficulties can be new, can be gradual, can fluctuate, can affect only a few frequencies, can cause constant talking (to block out people talking back), can be overcome when highly motivated, can be compensated for by high IQ.

It probably is fine. But you don't want to miss something which is easy to help.

Thankyou for clarifying maria I will get HV or GP to refer her.

The not waiting drives me mad,but so does the constant (I mean constant) talking,the disobedience,the not listening/responding to me,the changing clothes (at least 3 x per morning) and the way she just doesn't seem to understand bad behaviour=negative consequence,good behavior=positive consequence.
she just does not get it!

She does go to pre school,15 hrs.every afternoon,all day on a Thursday.off all day Tuesday.but it's half term ATM and she starts school in September.
She is So excited about starting big school,she has no trouble making friends or letting the teachers know what she wants/needs,she loves it there because there is always something fun to do.

She gets bored very,very easily.

I can't keep up with her,I cannot constantly entertain her.everything I set up for her,I need to watch as she will find a way to misbehave with it.(or,perhaps,just feels like doing something,so does it,with no idea/regard for the consequence because she can't understand the connection?!) we started to punish her for this by refusing to do that particular activity with her....but we ran out of activitys pretty fast that way.

We tried star charts,she doesn't understand them,and just asks for the stickers all the time (or plasters them full of her other stickers and concurs she has 'won') and makes zero correlation bettween the good thing she did,and the star.

I want to reward her,but it has to be immediate gratification with her,or she won't understand why she's being rewarded....so weekly charts don't work.

I'm tearing my hair out trying to think of things that will work,we keep trying things and we just don't get the reaction you're 'supposed' to get.

I think I'm going to order that book...

The book has lots of unconventional ideas. Sometimes it's the unexpected that grabs their attention. Ds has aspergers and the constant talking, impulsive behaviour and inability to get the idea of consequences all sounds familiar. How does she cope with the other children at Pre school? At 4 ds found it really difficult coping with sharing, dealing with other children interfering with games he had set up and hated stuff like circle time. Is much better with those now.

My DS had no concept of consequences, he's 7 now and getting better but at 4 he had no idea at all. He too is very bright and doesn't ever seem to hear 'no' - he will do whatever he wants to do.......

He had no understanding of sticker charts so I resorted to 10p coins and a jar I kept high up. For every sticker he would have got he got a 10p coin which we dropped into the jar. The jar was metal so it made a good noise. We would reinforce the coin getting by constantly repeating that DS was getting a coin because x, DS gets a coin if he does x, y or z.

Now, at 7, he is such a different child. Still impulsive, still ignores 'no' if it is a word he doesn't want to hear..... still drives me potty.... but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

(We finally have our DISCO coming up on Monday...)

Stop each activity before she starts sabotaging it (yes I know it will mean rotating through 12 games per hour).

Forget big or delayed rewards. Find little and totally immediate ones. Be very specific (mostly to yourself) about the exact behaviour you're looking for.

Keep an extremely limited stock of clothes accessible to her, and don't be too fussy about washing them, just straight back in the drawer.

Expecting her to behave, or respond to explanations, or keep still, or pay attention, will just end in tears.

She sounds just like ds at that age. He's 8 now and gorgeous and I've just about regained my sanity (partly thanks to Ritalin I have to say)

Thankyou,those are yet more good suggestions,you lot are just fantastic.
The coin thing just might work...

shopping she deals with other children very well.she is quite bossy though,and does get upset if others don't play by her rules.

Mariam okay,those sound very sensible.
you're right.
I suppose I have to stop trying to mould her into a child she is not,and try to work with the child she is.
And she can be just so sweet...but I think she can get quite stressed by all this too

She did it again.
Tomatoes,cereal,icecream,bisuits and yogurt with added butter for breakfast today...
And half of it ended up on the floor.

Oh how I love cleaning up squashed food at 5am.

DP went absolutely mad at her,he's fed up with it,he really doesn't understand why she keeps doing it,and her response is always so blasé;

"why why did you do it AGAIN DD!?!"

"um,I just wanted to."

Arrgghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Can you put an alarm on her door so that you hear if she comes out? So that you get her before she gets downstairs?

Am surprised you don't hear her. I'm a light sleeper but I wake when ds turns over the bed. Do you leave your door open so you can hear her? Def think some kind of alarm would be good

Fridge lock?

Just remembered with the waiting, we worked hard on FIRST-THEN.
When he could see both things, doing the first took milliseconds, then he got the one he really wanted very fast indeed. Building up the milliseconds is ok when they get the idea.

I think all parenting is moulding them a little bit into what they are not! Just it always fails when too fast / too drastic a change / not 'right for them'

Oh yes had forgotten about first then. Pre school did that with ds very successfully and we used it at home too.

You can ring social services disabled children's team and ask for an assessment for you as a carer and for two disabled children.
You do not need a diagnosis - whatever they say you are entitled to the assessment. See contact a family website for leaflets on social care assessments.
It may not bring help but they cannot refuse to do an assessment.

You then ask for respite - for evenings so you can get a night off / not end up divorced; for weekends because you are exhausted trying to manage two children with high level needs and most of all for school holidays.
They usually don't have any services for under 6 but can offer x hours per week in direct payments or by use of a care agency.
Explain to the social worker that you need time to yourself + quality time with each child on their own. Lay it on with a trowel. Cry if needed.
You need to do this now if you have any chance of getting support in place for summer holidays.

You can apply for DLA without a diagnosis and use this e.g. to get sitter or cleaner or whatever gives you a break, or for private speech therapy.

You can apply for both children to have a statement of special education needs - see IPSEA standard letter you send this off (one for each child) to the SEN Officer at the council. Many applications for young children are refused so you appeal to SEN Tribunal and because the council needs evidence to defend the appeal they have to send in professionals. This speeds up diagnosis / support etc. The council has a duty to meet the special education needs of every child brought to their attention. They have to gather evidence to show they have done this and therefore this is a way of getting bumped up the list for diagnosis / support. However it does mean a lot of paperwork for you. It does not matter if you think your child needs a statement or not, just by applying means that professionals will have to start doing their job to gather evidence whether an assessment is needed or not / to prove a statement is not needed. Its a way of getting professionals to bump you up the list. Because its a statutory process there is a timescale when evidence has to be collected. All you have to say is that your children probably need an assessment because the nature of their difficulties is unclear and they have deficits which will impact on their ability to learn e.g. poss ASD, ADHD, unable to follow instructions, poor play skills etc etc. You need to write separate letters for each child and keep a file as above. This is not a quick process but it does have a legal deadline and that makes professionals act

Do you have portage where you are? An early years specialist teacher? Once you apply for a statement you should find that any services available short of a statement are sent in. You should also find speech therapy are asked to come in.

Social services will also have an OT for disabled children who can advise and provide free alarms, safe proof your house etc so ask for a referral when the disabled children's social worker comes to do the assessment.

Cerebra do free £500 vouchers for children who have waited longer than 6 months for speech therapy.

agnes wow! Thankyou!

She has the attic room,it has no door stairs lead straight from her room,to the corridor leading to DS's room,and past our room to get to the stairs,the stairs lead straight onto the dinningroom/kitchen,again,no door,and no way of installing one....our door is permently open.

I am a light sleeper.
She is sneaky.
I really don't think it's about what kind of reaction she gets,she just wants to do it,so she does.

I will have to start setting my alarm for 3:30-4am to get up in time.the problem then is that DS still wakes up about 5 times each night,and only settles properly at about 3am,last night however,it was 5:30am.i am exsausted.so is DH.
We have absolutely no time together.
He works 6 days a week,and has Sunday off,and I work Saturday and Sunday.

I know it's dangerous.
I'm terrified. But I have to sleep at some point dont I?

I will try to put an alarm on the stair gate though-that might work,as long as she doesn't climb it....
We do FIRST-then....will do it more,and give the the THEN part quicker...then build up like you say.

Thankyou all for your advice,I'm reading it all and bullet pointing in in my diary!
I find lists much more easy to 'see'.

Bit of a silly question, but when she gets up early and raids the kitchen, is it because she is hungry? or bored? Is she actually EATING the food? Or just making a mess? The difference may be a clue in how to help deal with it IYSWIM.

DS2 is 5yo and has always been an early riser (4-5am, but is now leaning towards 5-6am, except occasionally earlier). We have a child safety gate with an alarm on his door, so he cannot leave the room, plus we listen with a child monitor in case he climbs. When he wakes up, he is very hungry, and as soon as he's been cleaned up (wets bed at night), then we go straight downstairs and give him something to start on - usually a banana or an apple. If we don't give him something to eat, he just has a meltdown or gets into everything. With food, he'll focus on that.

If it's hunger, can you put together a snack box that is just for her? For example, a lunch box with some food she is allowed to eat - much like a starter breakfast? Piece of fruit, yoghurt raisins, cereal bar... something nibbly that takes a few minutes to actually eat.

If it's boredom, perhaps a craft or art box that she can use until everyone else is up with safe stuff in it for her to play with?

As far as consequences of behaviour, we've found DS2 only responds well to positive reinforcement and any consequences must be immediate. Anything else and he simply won't connect the consequence to the behaviour.

I well remember the exhaustion - DS2 was regularly waking up 3-4 times per night and often up at 3-4 am for the day up until about the time he turned 5yo, then it has eased off a little. At the same time, DS3 was an infant and waking regularly for feeding - at opposite times that DS2 was waking up of course! And DH worked nights, so I literally survived on naps here and there and that's it. I was so exhausted at one point I was hallucinating. I finally broke down and told DH (he hadn't realised it, as I was trying so hard not to let on how exhausted I was, as he was exhausted too - working nights and only getting max of about 5 hrs of sleep during the day) how badly I was struggling. We worked out some time during the week in the evening for me to sleep about four hours three times per week, to try and get more sleep for me while he dealt with the boys. It made all the difference in the world!! If you can carve out at least 3 hours extra somewhere a couple times a week of sleep, it will help. (3 hours is IIRC one complete sleep cycle) If your DH works days, then try to let him take over from after one child's bedtime, and you sleep for 3 hours that evening.

If there is any way that you can take off a day or two of work (or your DH can), just to allow you to get 6-7 hours of uninterrupted sleep, I promise you, everything will look better as well. That lack of sleep makes everything so much harder!!