Teacher just mentioned autism at parents evening... what next?

[Puffinsaresmall]

Hello

DD is 7 and has always been quite rigid and black and white about things. If you say to her you'll do something later then she takes that as a 'promise' and gets very upset if plans then change. She also gets upset if rules are 'broken' and doesn't seem to understand that people can make mistakes, she can be very pedantic. I assumed this was all par for the course for a 7 year old.

At parents evening her teacher said 'I shouldn't really say this.... but erm... I think she may be on the very edge of the autism spectrum' The other teacher (dd's class has two) didn't seem that happy with her choice of words. I said 'what next, do i need to take her to the GP or ed psych etc' and this teacher was very 'No need for labels, if you want to take her somewhere then do but might grow out of...certainly doesn't need drugs... etc etc'

They went on to say that DD is very bright and the first teacher said 'yes and that's often true of children on the spectrum'.

Anyway - what do I do now? How do you know if your child is autistic? Is there anything I should be doing?

Sorry if this isn't very coherent, just got back and still a bit bemused I think.

So many good points in all your comments, I keep nodding at everything . I read the thread to DP earlier to try to explain to him.

I've had a long chat with my mum, she's behind anything we decide to do and will attempt to gently bring my dad round. I think he's just in a bit of denial at the moment, hopefully.

It is so strange though because I've been googling and lots of the 'traits' arent anything like DD, then other bits totally are.

You're so right re if it had been a supply teacher, it makes me sad to think that if it wasn't someone that knew her they could think she was being naughty.

School is v good because its the same school she's been in since she was a baby, goes all the way through to 18 in the same building, same head etc. At least thats one worry off my plate.

I keep thinking of lots of things now that have happened and thinking 'oh that makes sense now'. She can't bear plans being changed, thinks if you say 'lets go to the park after school' and then can't go because her sisters crying/its raining/grandparents are coming etc that you've lied to her and broken a promise, even though there was never any promise in the first place!

The reason the teacher started the conversation at parents evening was because someone had got work of the week 3 times and there's a 'rule' that no one can have it 3 times unless everyone has had it at least once. Anyway dd was very upset that the teacher had forgotten this rule. The rule was told to them last September and not mentioned since so how she'd managed to remember it for 8 months who knows!

Another one - my mum gave her a necklace yesterday and dd didnt seem that enthused. Eventually my mum said 'don't you like it?' and dd said 'Who wouldn't?' in a disbelieving tone. Hard to explain but she couldnt understand why my mum thought she didnt like it and couldnt even begin to understand that actually someone might not. Just thought it was a strange response from a 7 year old. Maybe Im just looking for things now though

Sorry for thread hijack puffins, chipmonkey could I ask who provided the social skills group training for your child? Was it CAMHS? I am currently trying to access social skills training for ds and am curious about it.

The rules thing is interesting as is the whole question of language. DS is very good a remembering the rules (and pointing out any infringements). He is the worse kind of back seat driver (speed limits, both hand on the wheel etc).

I don't think you are necessarily 'looking for things'. Sometimes when you become aware of a particular pattern you see it more often.

It must, in any case, be a relief to have a school where your dd can go until 18.

Bellette, I'm in Ireland so maybe things are different. Here, some children have an SNA, some have access to an SNA and some have "resource hours" where a specially trained teacher takes them out of class. It can be for maths or for reading but in ds2's case it was for motor skills and social skills. In the end, his social skills were so good that they would put other children in with him to help them.

I'm back, I'm sure you're all thrilled

Meeting is for tomorrow afternoon. As days have passed I'm moving away from thoughts of Aspergers. DD has explained several of the things that she's done recently - the mask thing and the star thing, and both explanations were not what I thought. She also cheats (constantly) at board games and understands sarcasm, in fact she uses it. No idea if that would still be the case for anyone on the spectrum. I'm starting to lean towards perhaps some sort of anxiety disorder?

Anyway, my main priority tomorrow is to listen to what they have to say, but do any of you have any thoughts on main questions I should ask please? I don't want to come out and think 'damn! I knew I'd forgotten something!'

I wouldn't say cheating at board games or being sarcastic would rule AS in or out TBH. I'ld be more interested in whether she picks up on others being sarcastic.

In terms of what to say to school - in a nutshell, don't let them identify problems without identifying solutions/support!

DS cheats ALL the time at board games. He can't lose. However he doesn't understand sarcasm.

You buggers Everytime I come up with 'evidence' you explain to me that it means nothing

I think the school, although good, does have 'issues' at times. This is a bit off topic but there is one boy in dd's class who I would say is a bully. Apparently he was dragging her around by the skin on her arm today and last week kicked a ball in her face (on purpose not during a game). The teachers have been told, repeatedly, about this boy but the problem is dd comes home and tells us what has happened, we speak to the teacher and then the next thing we know dd is saying 'maybe it was an accident' and we say 'are you sure?' and she says 'no but the teacher says it probably was' Then Im left not really knowing what the truth is.

Anyway. Back to the point. If they mention taking her to the gp, what does that actually entail? Do you take your dc into the gp office with you? I'm not sure that I'd feel comfortable at this stage talking about dd in front of her. Do you have to take a letter from the school to the gp?

I think I might also read 'misdiagnosis and dual diagnosis of gifted children' if I were you.

I know that doesn't help, but it will rather elucidate your dilemma....

No, no letter. You can ask to speak to GP without dd present. All the go will do is refer to dev paed anyway, they can't dx anything themselves.

But do say that you have been advised by school to get developmental advice.

yep agree with mad. you don't need written proof from school or anything! but saying "school have concerns" does get you taken more seriously, irritatingly! I suppose it helps justify referrals, as its evidence of impact on quality of life etc.

Thank you all. Will report back after tomorrow's meeting... am a bit scared but at least once the meeting has happened I'll know more either way

Hope your meeting went well. Fwiw, she sounds exactly like ds1, right down to the cheating at board games.
Noone knew what to call him for five or six years, but they have recently settled on ADHD with some aspergers traits (not enough for dx), anxieties and phobias. He's also gifted. They are all unique and so many things cross over that I think it's impossible to get an accurate picture sometimes. A dx of 'something' makes it more likely to get support, though.

I'll try to type through the tears. Held it together in mtg then came out and sobbed like a baby. Am hanging on but on the brink iyswim.

Can;t even remember half of what they said. Basically they definitely think she is 'on the spectrum', her behaviour has been getting worse and worse other the last 4 weeks in terms of crying, arguing, none stop talking etc. Its got to the point where its distracting the rest of the class because she won't be quiet.

This morning she started crying, teacher held her hands and asked her ewhat was wrong, dd wouldnt look at her and wouldnt speak to her.

The teacher overhread her the other day saying to another student when they asked what she was doing 'im hurting my foot so i can get some attention'

She took a piece of paper round to the other children in the class saying they had to sign if they liked her. Some wouldnt (teacher said because they didnt want to sign something not because they didnt like her) - dd crying, other children crying.

say shes struggling massively socially, frustrates the other children because she wants them to play games exactly so

thinks everyone in the class 'hates her'

is arguing with the teachers over stuff. when they get to the bottom of what shes trying to say its usaually very logical but they have to spend time trying to understand what it is she means

that she doesnt understand if she says to someone something nasty but factual they might be hurt

and lots lots more that i can't remember.

feel a bit broken to be honest, i just came out thinking how vulnerable she is, and how she wont be able to survive if she doesnt understand social interactions

forgibve the overreaction but i feel like her future has just been wiped out, she seems to be gettig worse and worse.

my parents are being brilliant thank god. plan is gp - ed psych. also gave us name of private lady they , the school, recommend. no senco at the school.

probably not makingmuch sense in a bit of shock i think

Honey, I do sympathise, I know from my own experiences of school etc that the one thing I would have wished for my DS (to be popular, great social skills etc) to spare him the struggles I have, is not fated to be , so I can appreciate this is crushing as your own school experiences will be retraumatising you as well at this point.

Publicly asking the other children to sign if they like your DD . what a fuck witted approach. Please try and bear in mind that school being so worried right now is probably because they can't just ignore your DD's behaviour, not because your DD has somehow massively deteriorated in the last month. I'm not going to say to you - ignore the school's worries etc, but you do need to start being cynical I am afraid - as to how far this "naice" private school can be arsed to deal with SN.

she's a bright girl. she may or or may not have Aspergers or traits thereof. But don't write her off socially, it may take a heck of a lot of work that probably only a parent would be prepared to put in, to work with her on how to be with others.

And WHAT ARE THE SCHOOL GOING TO DO TO HELP HER SOCIALLY?

Hi poppet and thank you

Wasn't school doing the 'sign here' thing it was bloody dd!! Hopefully they're not that crap

School were nice, suggested gp - ed psych - more meetings with them and hopefully suggestions from ed psych on how to help dd, how to help us, how to help them, how to help other children in her class etc. Then putting that into practice.

We're all in shock I think. Dont know why as it was fairly obvious what was going to happen but still.

Its exactly as you say, if I could have granted her anything in the world it would have been great social skills and it is very much bringing back my own childhood

Am thinking of taking parental leave or maybe giving up job totally. Maybe if Im at home with her and have no stressful job maybe it would help her feel more secure?

Feel like maybe if I hadnt put her in nursery at 6 months, maybe if her dad and I hadnt divorced, if I hadnt had pnd.......... etc etc etc

IT WAS DD THAT TOOK THE PAPER ROUND NOT THE TEACHER - just realised that how i wrote it made it sound likje the teacher did it!!

Puffin, none of this is your fault - don't be trying to make huge knee jerk decisions like giving up work etc - take it easy and be kind to yourself over the weekend. It's always a it of a shock to be confronted with stuff like this, even if we maybe suspect something. Cup of tea and hibernate for a couple of days.

Ask the GP for a referral to camhs, and also to a developmental paediatrician.

I'm not entirely convinced about the spectrum side, but it will do no harm for you to keep reading, getting info and getting the referrals done.

There are lots of social skills things that school should be doing. In an ordinary state school, dd would be on the 'school action' list, and the senco and ct would be writing an iep and coming up with some sensible targets and how school are going to help her reach them... These can definitely be social targets.

At the mo she is just a wee square peg in a round hole, and needs a bit of support to make life easier. No more than that. Plenty of time for dx, and sometimes that doesn't happen for years.

We all want to make life easy for our Dcs some of them just need a wee bit more help than others. she's the exact same child she was yesterday and the day before.

Cup of tea and a warm bath to take the edge off x it does get easier, I promise x

v good post from madwoman. she's always bloody right and she even knows about the gifted side of things too

seriously - as madwoman says, state primaries often have social skills groups for children who need extra support, it's not that unusual for kids to need help.

don't knee jerk into giving up work - like with the fussy eater stuff, it's a case of slowly but surely getting her used to not being in control/bossing round with games etc. E.g. the taking the paper round incident you can use as a window to discuss why that's not a good idea.

And you can see why I got confused by the taking round bits of paper stuff!

Puffin- I cant add much to the advice others have given you; but wanted to sympathise. I understand the feeling of searching the past to see where you went wrong with her. I found that beating myself up would deplete my reserves of strength to beat the system instead.
FWIW my DS has a confimed diagnosis of high functioning ASD/Aspergers with a similiar profile to your DD. I recently finished a ''Talkability'' course with the local SLT....I found it really useful to help me understand his 'literalness' (is that a word?) how he cant cope with changes in plans, his inappropriate humour etc. The book is on Amazon. All Theory of Mind apparently

Puffins,you will be fine as will your dd. I was exactly like you 2 yrs ago-went to the meeting in the school thinking 'well he does this and that and this and that but it doesnt mean that anything is definitely wrong does it,We would have known by now etc etc'.Although in my heart I knew the answer, nothing prepared me for the school actually saying the words and expressing their concerns etc. I came home and kept crying when I was alone- I couldnt believe this was happening to us.Nothing can prepare you for it really Puffins..Its horrible! The social skills thing is our biggest issue along with anxiety and anger also and I have ,funnily enough just today,recieved a copy of a really good social skills package from CAMHS which they have also sent to the resource teacher at school to do with ds .There is lots of help out there Puffins and keep posting here as you will get great advice from all the other experienced mnetters who know the system really well. My heart is going out to you but each and every one of us has been there and knows what you are going through. It will take time to sink in-we told noone for 6 months,not even my mum/sister etc ,I just couldnt ,I was so much in shock.
Have a big hug Puffins and and and even a .

Thank you all for your kind words and advice, it means a lot.

Last night I just went to bed. This morning I think I feel ok for a minute then it comes back then goes again etc.

Really good to know there is a lot of help out there too.

Her school is likely to become non-private next year so am hoping that will mean they have a senco etc.

I'm still not convinved on the spectrum side either Madwoman, doesn't seem to fit in lots of ways. But, there is definitely something 'wrong' and whatever the label is its the behaviour that she needs help with as you said, just maybe a little bit more help with

She's going away today to her dad's over the weekend and dd2 is staying at my parents overnight so DP and I will have some space to talk about things. Although actually I think we might be better served just trying to forget about it, getting drunk and watching a film