SA refused. Gutted.

[Oblomov]

Got LEA letter today. As expected they are refusing to assess ds1(8). I know I expected this, but I am still gutted.
They said that ?All professionals involved with ds confirm that provision is adequate?.
Not sure how to argue against that, really.
What do you advise?
Have got my IPSEA download ready on how to appeal, to SEND. Woman from LEA helpfully forgot to include the pack on how to appeal.
But he trouble, is, I'm just not sure if I have any grounds.
The EP did agree with school, that his needs were being met. I told her in the meeting that I did not agree. And when I got her final report, I wrote again , to say that I did not agree.
But to be fair, I'm going round in circles. Ds is saying he wants to die. Yet school says he's fine. And I can't even get a single person to agree with me, that his needs are not beign met.
So realistically, is it worth writing to SEND, when I can't even find the words to build a case, myself.

Do you think this is just a shock reaction to the letter, and I need to calm down
Wouldn't have been the first time I had got all 'het up'

Oh no so sorry for you. I'm sure you feel very let down right now. I think this is a common story and it seems like such a battle.
My Ds says that too and it's utterly heartbreaking.
Gather up all your strength and then you can decide what's best to do next.
Someone will be along shortly with words of wisdom and been there done that worn the t shirt and this is what to do next advice hopefully.

Thanks Flow. There I was, a few days ago, encouraging you, on your thread, to apply for a SA. And now here I am doubting myself.

Don't lose sight of the fact that you are the one who knows your ds best. Your only agenda is to do what is best for him the EP and the school may be being influenced by budget or other considerations. If your son is still saying he wants to die despite the support currently on offer or being proposed, that in itself should point up that their support is inadequate. Were the EP and the school the only professionals who submitted reports or were there other reports from eg CAMHS that were more supportive of your argument of the need to assess? Have you had any input from ipsea or sossen or your local partnership with parents? It often helps to have a third party look over the reports.

I think the problem is Ob that even if his needs were not being adequately met you'd be likely to get exactly the same response. Many here have who then go on to get statements.

How you figure out your position is to appeal anyway (to start the process shoukd you need to use it) and then get an independent EP booked to confirm or refute.

Who has been involved in diagnosis or assessment of your son? You need to get reports from these people that list his difficulties and pick out every last thing that is a struggle for him in these reports and focus on these. Use the special educational needs code of conduct and quote it at them - things like the section on complex needs, that assessment should be carried out if a child may need a statement of special educational needs etc. Consider if necessary and possible financially getting a private ed psych report too. Depending what they worded in their detailed response where possible quote them back and dispute that you find current provision for problem x, y or z as adequate etc.

It isn't unusual to need to fight so expect to push all the way through this. We were told we wouldn't get a statement by the LA Ed Psych and they have finally backed down and agreed to issue one for our DD. It is hard work but don't despair.

Thank you.
I have just phoned pwp.
Sos-sen and IPSEA both advised on my Parental report that I submitted as part of my SA request.
I really did try to get all the SENCOP quotes that I could, into my report.
I submitted reports from CAMHS and Paed. But these were only his diagnosis reports.
I have no report from Paed or CAMHS that list his "needs". Are you suggesting that I go back to Paed and try to get re-refered back to CAMHS, telling CAMHS that I need to see them again, because he keeps wanting to die, and get both Paed and CAMHS to write such a report?
You say that I need an Independant EP report now, but I can't reaLLY afford one. Plus everyone says, not to get one done too early, but to get one done at the very late stages of tribunal and then spring it on the LEA as a shock at the last minutes. So, I was hoping not to have to need to get an Ind EP report done yet.
CAMHS discharged me upon diagnosis. I have seen Paed once since and she didn't really say much. I have a telephone appointment with Paed next week, that I have arranged because I have written a letter to her, including my SA request and letters to EP and school. So, I am going to ask for her comments, as for her support. Its just that I am not entirely sure, exactly, what support I am going to ask of her.
I also want to tell Paed that I am applying for DLA. I will need her support for that aswell. School reports will probably mean I get refused DLA. Because they will say he's fine. So I will end up going to tribunal for a SA and a tribunal for DLA at the same time!! But i need that DLA money. I need that money to pay for the independant EP that I have already spoken to. He is Peter Parkhouse. The lovely lady from Sos-sen recommneded him, because she got her 2 AS boys statemented and she said that she was in a very very similar situation to me. And that Peter Parkhouse was fab. I know he is also a MN favourite. But his total cost for assesssment and then possible tribunal, were £2k, so I could really do with the DLA money. which is ANOTHER fight.

Sorry, my head is buzzing.
Did I answer Beautiful, Starlight and Pink's questions?

Are you suggesting that I go back to Paed and try to get re-refered back to CAMHS, telling CAMHS that I need to see them again, because he keeps wanting to die,

Absolutely!

And ask for a written report on what is causing him to feel this way - that's not normal behaviour.

If my DS was saying this I would be ringing CAMHS and demanding an emergency appointment. CAMHS cannot turn away a child that is this distressed.

I would go slow on DLA - it could be construed that your seach for answers to DS's difficulties is so you can claim DLA - which we know is not the case.

You are right though - the only way to break the circle lies in a private assessment.

Fiona Slomovic just called me. We talked for 1/2 an hour and she thinks that we would really struggle, to get him assessed. We both agreed. She says that normally, only a crisis, would make the difference.
I need to thin aout this. I can't see thta it is worth appealing. My heart says no, pwp say no, even Fiona says no. Not good.

Ob Don't despair. You might have to put the SA on hold for now but it doesn't mean you can't hold them to account in other ways. Regular correspondence and their replies when you seek support in written form will either get you the help he needs or demonstrate that they are unable to help within schools resources which will form the basis of a future SA request.

Tbh statements only give you a place on the next rung. They don't solve all problems and the quality of provision however written can never be guaranteed. You still carry on fighting but just from one level up.

'Provision is adequate' is he making progress?

Oblomov I am so sorry to hear this.

Starlight is spot on with her advice as always. You can keep on fighting and making sure you keep the school on their toes, in the meantime you will be building up evidence for any future requests.

Fiona said thta even with Peter Parhouse, ind EP, I prob wouldn't get an assessment. And she rates him highly.

Oblomov, i have no idea of your financial situation, but you can get FREE assessments and legal help with drafting appeal documents if you are on benefits or a low income.

Progress Claw? Well, academically he is fine, as you would expect form an AS child. But the whole point was that I said I was applying for a SA, not applying on the academic side, i.e not being 2 years behind, but more on the social side.
Wet, re the camhs dying, I will mention this to Paed. But I only listed the 4 or 5 times that he has said this in the last year/1.5 years, because I had to use it as my trump card, in the SA.

claw,I'm not. Dh has a good job, reasonable income. I'm not working at the moment. We wouldn't get legal aid. I don't have the £800 spare to pay for Peter Parkhouse's assessment. And more importantly, even if i got a cheaper EP, Fiona was saying that even a good EP report might not save me, may not help. Because i have such an unsupportive school, I am arguing against the school and the LEA. and the LEA and school are together in their opposition. Makes my case hard, she said.

That sounds very hard, oblomov. I'm sure it's been asked before, but if SA isn't going to happen and his school isn't being supportive, is there any possibility of a more supportive school?

Oblomov, ds is the same doing well academically and i applied for SA more for social, sensory, anxieties etc, etc. Progress also has to cover these areas too. School didnt support my request either.

They agreed to SA after i appealled it (without any private assessments) but ds didnt get a statement at Tribunal. But there are plenty of others on here, who have got a statement for those needs.

Ellen, I have phoned up and asked about being put on the waiting list at 3 other schools. I was basically told not to bother, apologetically, only because they had the biggest waiting lists they had ever had - something silly like 33rd at one, and 29th at another, and 43rd or something silly, like that at the final one.

I guess I'm just feeling a bit senstitive. I rub everyone at the school up the wrong way, I basically tell Outreach and the EP, that they are nigh on unprofessional. And now I feel a bit of a laughing stock. Headmistress probably had a little laugh at me. Who was I? Silly me to think I could get one over on her, not that I ever did think I'd get one over, but YKWIM. She says terrible things to me, like saying i am "impossible", but its me left looking the fool now.

Even Fiona said I should insist that they do an OT assessment, he might be dyspraxic. But I told her he wasn't. Yes he's clumsy, yes his handwriting is crap, yes he comes last in races and they all booh him and don't want him on their team. So I go to GP and she writes to OT. But all they do is send a resource pack to school. who refuse to action it. saying that they didn't know where the referal came from. And so I ring OT back and I go back to GP, but i am still no further on, to actually getting him to be OT assessed. And even if i did. He just needs a bit of help. Not major help. Not dyspraxic. So even that wouldn't get me a SA.
the problem with ds is that he has lots of minor needs. Needs help with anxiety, social skills, lonely, no friends, wants to die, writing a bit crap, but can be o.k.. All the things are minor. The school could EASILY help him. IF they wanted to. But they don't.
I always knew that gettign a statement would be hard, because it would always be argued that school could /should support him at SA+. But school won't put him on SA+. They insist he is still on SA only. Its so very very hard when you have a child who just needs a bit of help. It harder to persuade anyone to do it. If you have a child who is so severe that there is no question that they need help, in SOME ways it is slightly easier. Thats sounds terrible doesn't it? Maybe I shouldn't have written that. But i think some of you may know what I mean.
Maybe I better stop posting, befoere I write something i regret. Maybe I am a but too emotional , right now. Apologies.

Ob Don't stop posting. There are people here who understand the humiliation of having to continue to deal with crap agencies that they have fought and lost to. The hardest thing is the isolation and the certainty that with things as they are no-one will believe that despite your losing you were actually right - Least of all crap agencies. (which you will worry can now justify their very poor existence and some probably will do vindictively - at least they I'd in my case).

Whatever happens know that YOU never gave up on your Ds and nor will you do. You just have to regroup and think and plan. It isn't over.

Can you go back to the LA and ask which schools they have no waiting lists for and then start taking a look at these instead? They may not look the best on paper and may be a distance away but may have a very different approach to support for your son that would suit better.

Meanwhile I would start keeping paper trails and logging all the problems, ways they are dealt with, put requests in writing (even if only to confirm after a verbal discussion) and start to gain proof of the failures. You can reapply for SA at a later date and with this sort of evidence then hopefully you will have a better case from the start.

Sorry you are getting nowhere fast trying to get the help.

Lesson learnt from my experience - you need to move schools. No matter what it takes. Even with a statement you will battle against a school which cannot recognise or meet your child's needs - or who does not want to.

Your emotions are understandable given how hard you have worked to help your Ds It's normal to feel very frustrated as it really sounds like your school have been unhelpful.
We all feel extremely protective of our Ds's because they have only got us to stand up for them.
It sounds like you have hit a brick wall and you have exhausted all advice.
Perhaps you could give yourself a break then resume action when ready.
Has your Ds missed school due to his difficulties?
Take care

Oblomov, being borderline can be really hard in lots of ways, we do understand. No one takes you seriously, your parenting gets called into doubt, your DC have more understanding of what they are missing, etc, etc. Obviously you wouldn't want your DC to have more severe SN, but borderline brings it's own set of problems.

your ds wanting to die is not minor. Have you spoken to your GP? I would go to GP or Pead and ask to be referred to CAMHS for that issue for sure.

Tbh statements only give you a place on the next rung. They don't solve all problems and the quality of provision however written can never be guaranteed. You still carry on fighting but just from one level up.

Star is correct sadly. DS statement I thought once done was water tight. Not so if you have a school that will not follow it and lie through their teeth. The battle doesnt stop at a statement sadly.

Dont stop posting, in some ways you are correct in what you say. If it wasnt for the school pushing DS so hard that he lost it and held a chair in the air no one would have assessed him. It wouldnt have happened had he not got to bursting point.

Today is a bad day because you feel let down and you have a right to feel so.