Tinsley House Support Thread

[IndigoBell]

An awful lot of us are now doing Tinsley House, either by going there, or by following the recommendations in The Brain Food Plan

So this is just a general support (and hopefully good news) thread.

Stage 1 of the TH therapy consists of:

1. Multivitamins

• Omega
• Zinc & Magnesium
• Multivitamin

1. Healthy eating diet

• High protein, low sugar, no artificial sweeteners, additives etc.

1. Specific exercises done 3 times a day

indigo, it has 414mg DHA and 644mg EPA per serving and is £12.95 for 600ml ie. 120 doses, which would be a months supply for my three.

I have the vegepa ones at the moment but two capsules is only 224mg EPA, how many are giving your DS a day?

I snip and mix with drinking yoghurt.

Hoping this is the right thread.

Whats's the cheapest place to get tinned sardines with the bones still in (in oil not brine pref!). Food prices keep going up and my budget is tiny but this is a "good food" DS will wolf down. They are such a handy store cupboard standby. Lidls switched a while ago to only boneless ones and he needs the calcium.

Fave ways to eat tinned sardines (or tinned bone in pilchards or mackeral)
sardine & spinach sarnies have been one of his faves from toddler hood,
fish cakes cakes
fish pie

grilled with basil & lemon on toast.
pate

They only get about 15 mins actual eating time at school by the time they've done all the lining up malarky and settling in their seats etc so there have been times when DS has been hungry cos I've made his lunch too complex (careful how you wrap sarnies etc) and he hasn't had the time to eat properly. I now keep it as simple as I can and rely on a big brekkie and an afterschool snack to keep him "topped up", (he has a big appetite).

WB - Whoops, I realised I'm only giving my kids half as much as I thought

DS takes 4 chewable ones, and DD takes 2 swallowable ones. So they're both getting approx 500mg.

It takes months to replenish your omega. It's only now, after 4 months on vegepa, I'm finally not seeing any bumpy skin on DS.

I would not buy the one you're talking about. AFAIK DHA reduces the effectiveness of EPA. Certainly DS was on a normal Omega supplement before with both DHA and EPA in it - and it wasn't as good as Vegepa.

DS3 has the bumpy skin, I've read that it is to do with too little vitaminD (been reading up on vitamin D as my sister has MS which has recently been linked to low levels of vitaminD). I must start him on the fish oils too.

I didn't know about the antagonistic effect of DHA on EPA, think I will have to copy you and bulk buy VEGEpa.

this site says bumpy skin is a symptom of omega defeciency.

Certainly DS had bumpy skin on his face and upper arms and now doesn't.

The DHA/EPA thing is more complicated. I think it is very much current research working it all out. I am only going on what Robin says - but he certainly has researched it properly.

this is what vegepa says about DHA. Which is pretty much the same thing Robin told me.

Ds has very smooth skin.

Dd (who is not doing TH), has very bumpy skin

Refreshed my google searching on Keratosis Pilaris (Clinical name for bumpy skin, my dad was a dermatologist). Looks like the jury is out on Vitamin D but vitamin A has been posited and, as you said, essential fatty acids.

I have it too (there is a genetic element) and mine has got a bit better since I have been taking a 1000mg fish oil cap (for brain, heart and joint health and to up my vitamin D levels).

I amy well try that *daft8 after I have finished my stock of eyeQ.

Ohhh...my dsis has REALLY bumpy skin...will tell her about the fish oil, thanks.

Pm me if you want me to post some of my stash, Beca.

I used to have keratosis pilaris too, but it has got much better in the last few years, so I can understand that it woud be genetic.

Might try dd on the Vegepa too but she won't be able to swallow the tablets so would have to snip them. Does it taste foul does anyone know?!

The vegepa chewable ones are orange flavoured and taste reasonable - although obviously a bit fishy and a bit oily.

I don't know what the other ones taste like as I swallow them :)

Right - we have finally run out of Eye-qs and I've ordered Vegepa chewables and the zinc/magnesium Floradix. I have a few questions...

Do you think I need to give the boosted dose of Vegepa, given that Ds1 has been on Eye-Qs and Ds2 on cod-liver oil for years? (both have slightly bumpy skin on upper arms though).

Do I need to give more zinc than is in the liquid? ( Indigo, I think you said you give your Dcs 10 mls but cant remember in what form this is)

At the moment I haven't ordered the Floravital multivitamin - mainly because I'm a bit worried about Ds2 and too much calcium ( theres calcium in the zinc/mag one too). He is dairy-free, so in theory needs more calcium, but I've read on the Treating Autism site that some autistic children respond badly to calcium, so dont want to overdo it. He has also responded badly to B vits in the past. Is the Floravital really necessary do you think? I could always give it to Ds1 and not Ds2.

I don't know. I think you should be fine on the normal dose of vegepa. Do report back if the bumpy skin disappears. :)

I really don't understand the zinc. The floradix doesn't seem to contain enough - but it's what's recommended.

My lot take osteocare instead of floradix - because they liked it better. And it was a battle I didn't need. So that is how they're getting more zinc.

I think somehow if you're taking floradix you're getting enough zinc.

I really do think you need vitamin B though. Was it large amounts he reacted to? Or normal amounts?

I tried a vit B complex - and he reacted to that. Then the behaviour balance, which worked really well for a while, then he became very agitated, but of course it could have been something else other than the Vit B. So hard to tell with Ds2, because he cant tell me how he feels. All the literature suggests that the B vits are vital for autistic children - some even suggest mega-high doses. I sometimes wonder if I dont give DS2 enough time on these things and the negative behaviours we see are actually a positive sign. But in fact what we usually see is that he just becomes 'more autistic' if that makes sense.

If you haven't tried him on normal doses of vitamin B (6 and 12) I would do that. It's in most multivitamins, and I do think it's important.

But I agree, these mega doses (particularly in behaviour balance) do make some kids worse.

I think kindervital is pretty good sphill...its has all the main vits, A, B, C D E and B6 and 12....not in massive doses though.

When the childs diet has improved (as ds1's has) they arent going to need mega doses anyway - just "top ups" IYSWIM?

I have the vegepa chewables and its not the oil thats too bad - it tastes fishy and organgey and the same time which is a bit odd - its the chewable capsule thats horrid...really chewy and plasticy...I could see if ds1 would just chew them to get the oil out and then spit the capsule out??? Does he need the capsule too though???

Beca - I always spit the capsule out. I assume that's what you're meant to do?

Sphil - I just dug out the sheet Robin gave me. He says for children aged 12+ you need zinc 15mg + Magnesium, however for kids under 12 he just recommends the kindervital + floradix saludynam.

hahahahaha I have been eating them!!! Oh dear Maybe thats why I think they are horrid?

Will finish the eye Q (still have 2 bottles) and then start him on vegepa.

What a day! Talking with a Hollywood Star on MN

ooohh daft how exciting! Missed that!

So...ds1 will take the vegepa chewables!!! Just tried 2 and no probs so the eye q is being dumped.

Can I just make sure that - wrt the vegepa chewables you do eat/swallow the capsule too???

I don't know about the chewables capsule but if it is supposed to be spat out it would say so on the packaging, I would have thought.

I have checked online and you can either swallow whole, chew them and swallow or pierce and put the epa into yoghurt etc.

Am really pleased he will have them...its the best one IMO after researching quite a few.

Dh just tried the EyeQ vanilla and said it was "foul"...this from a man who would eat a brick if it had sugar on it!!!! So it must be bad!!!

Thanks Indigo - I am wondering if Ds1 should have the 15mg zinc + mag as although he's only 10.7 he is the height and weight of a 12-13 year old. Do you give extra zinc and mag on top of the saludynam, or something else entirely?

I give osteocare instead of saludynam.

I have copied Indigo Ds (10yrs) is also on Osteocare.

Robin suggested that ds would be ok on the adult recommended doses and he is not big for his age.