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SN children

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Original poster

Can you get one to one support without a statement.

25 replies

chuckeyegg · 23/09/2011 16:32

Feel angry and let down by the school. I wanted to apply for a statement last school year when DS was in Nursery and was told, no it was not necessary the school had many other children with autism and they would be able to provide adequately for him without it. Then right before the summer they told me they were going to apply for a statement, which they have also told me comes with no money. They won't start the process until he has seen an educational pyschologist.

His teacher has told me he needs one to one support and would do well if he had it. The occupational therapist said he could have one to one support without a statement but the teacher tells me that a statement is required. I am going to ask for a meeting with the Senco next week but would just like to go armed with some facts.

OP posts:

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 16:41

You don't need a statement for 1:1 support no. But until you get a statement it is at the discretion of the school whether you get it.

I would advise you NOT to wait for the EP, but to go to the IPSEA website and apply yourself. This way you know it is done, the EP comes quicker and you have to be copied into all the 'evidence' so you know what is going on. You are therefore in a better position to appeal if you need to as the school can't.

cansu · 23/09/2011 16:45

The school can provide one to one support in theory but will no doubt say that they do not have any money to do so. Usually it is only by getting the LA to specify 1: 1 in part 3 of a statement that it will be provided. It is usually a battle to get it specified clearly in the statement. When you go to the meeting keep the senco focused on what your ds needs rather than on what is available. They may well tell you that they do not have enough money, TA's etc - this might be true but it is not your problem. Personally I would ask for the LA to assess your son (statutory assessment) as a parent rather than rely on the school to do it. IPSEA I think have sample letters on their website and guidance on how to do this. Then when you go to the meeting, inform school that you have done this. The LA will contact the school for info. You can get the school to do it but will have more control over the process if you do it. You also have the right to appeal if they say they won't asses or won't issue a statement.

cansu · 23/09/2011 16:46

Cross posted with star - good advice star!

IndigoBell · 23/09/2011 16:46

The EP does not come quicker if you apply for a statement yourself. (May in some cases, but def not round here)

Unless you have a LEA EP report saying that your child needs a statement you are very unlikely to get one. (Although of course there are exceptions)

So, school might be doing the right thing by waiting for an EP report before applying for a statement.

Do you know when he is likely to see the EP? This is what you need to find out. If it is this term, I'd wait and go with the schools plan.......

You can get 1:1 without a statement - but only if the school can afford it..... So basically pretty unusual unless your child is throwing chairs or the like all day......

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 16:56

Indigo, the LA cannot refuse a SA due to lack of evidence.

An 'active' parent gets noticed by EPs usually.

Original poster

chuckeyegg · 23/09/2011 16:56

Thank you all for your advice. The senco told me the statement comes with no extra money. I understand in Hertfordshire they give the school SEN money an they use it as they see fit.

thanks again x

OP posts:

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 16:58

cansu, it is a myth that a school application cannot be appealed. It can.
The trouble is that it can only be appealed by the parent, who, if they didn't apply themelves in the first place, may not have been copied into all the relevant documentation and may find it difficult to get hold of.

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 16:59

Oh, Hertfordshire..........

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 17:02

'The senco told me the statement comes with no extra money'.

Yes. This is a line they have been trained to quote at parents.

Look at her puzzled and tell her you haven't asked for any money. Why would you? What would your ds do with money? What he needs is support and outcomes. How that is arranged is of no concern to you provided it meets his needs.

grumpypants · 23/09/2011 17:05

I think that a lot of the advice and experiences prob depend on the la people have experienced. Altho some things are universal, the detail of how they are done (eg copying parents in at x date) are not. Get hold of the ace booklet about applying for sa (free to download from their website)

IndigoBell · 23/09/2011 17:07

Indigo, the LA cannot refuse a SA due to lack of evidence.

Not sure what you mean. They can refuse a SA because the DC doesn't meet the criteria for a SA.

And the way to prove that DC does meet the criteria is normally an EP report saying that DC won't cope in MS without significant amount of 1:1 .....

An 'active' parent gets noticed by EPs usually.

The EP won't know anything about the parent. It's the schools decision who is seen by the EP.

Original poster

chuckeyegg · 23/09/2011 17:08

Thanks for your reply Starlight, are they lying? It does seem to be a nightmare in Hertfordshire getting any straight answers from anyone. Everyone I speak to here tells me something different. x

OP posts:

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 17:10

re the funding.

The statement may well not come with any funding, but is IS a 'statement' about what your child needs and will subsequently receive. To some extent it is a 'statement' about what the school are legally required to spend their money on, - which is why schools are unhappy about children getting statements if they are not causing them problems i.e. being disruptive.

If they can simply be managed (although not educated) then there is no incentive for the school to spend x amount of money on one particular child when they could spend that same amount of money on getting maths resources in for the whole class UNLESS that child has a statement.

Original poster

chuckeyegg · 23/09/2011 17:17

Thanks Starlight, that's really helped and what I thought.

Thanks to everyone for your replies it has really helped, I'm beginning to understand it all.

OP posts:

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 17:22

You know what chucky I don't think they are lying, and it is good to keep as good a relationship with the SENCO as you possibly can (provided it isn't at the expense of your ds).

They go on training courses, and the LA sell them their version of events. I am on my 3rd school in the very same LA and the SENCO's have obviously practised their responses in their sleep. They sound like blimmin robots.

So don't antagonise the SENCO. She might well not believe you if you tell her something different than she has been trained. Just thank her and do it yourself anyway.

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 17:24

Indigo, it's in the SENCOP. It is hard to find (I've attempted again just now and given up) but it states that lack of evidence cannot be used to justify decision not to do a SA.

In terms of getting active, I meant call the EP yourself and tell them you've put in a request and can they get a move on as you don't want their delay to be the cause of your ds not getting the provision he needs. Write, of course.

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 17:25

contact, not call.

Original poster

chuckeyegg · 23/09/2011 17:34

Thanks Starlight I certainly won't antagonise the SENCO I'm just trying to make sense of it all and your help and advise has been very valuable.

OP posts:

bumblingbovine · 23/09/2011 17:42

In answer to your question ds's school provided 1:1 support for 15 hours a week at the beginning of reception, was upped to 22 hours by the end of reception and stayed at that level throughout year 1.

He has just started year 2 and we have just has a meeting yesterday with the LA about his first draft statement which the school applied for just before this last summer. He should have his final statement in the next few weeks,. The meeting with the LA was productive, and they were very responsive and helpful.

I don't really post much about ds's support in school and his statementing process because I know from reading on here how unusual it is for it all to go so smoothly. I think the school and the LA have been very good overall.

If however you ask me about the process of getting a diagnosis in my area I have a VERY different answer for you.

grumpypants · 23/09/2011 17:48

I think being able to produce evidence is very important. the whole of the sen cop 2001 chapter devoted to assessment talks of evidence.

it would be useful to find out your la's guidance on sa/ sa+ and to get a copy of the local criteria for assessment, so you know what you are up against.

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/09/2011 17:59

chucky You may be well aware that I have been treated appallingly by Herts. I therefore have a view that I believe is realistic, but could be biased.

Do you mind saying where abouts you are, or PMing me?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 23/09/2011 18:20

chuckey

I would apply for a statement myself and ignore any naysayers. You say yourself you wanted to apply for it personally last year.

My DS never received any 1 to 1 without a statement but I managed to get it specified in part 3 of his statement without too much of a fight (this was several years ago however).

School cannot appeal the statement request if they make it and it gets turned down (in this part of Essex that certainly applies); only the parents have that particular right so they must make the appeal. Infact this scenario happened to someone I know not so long ago.

The only criteria that should apply to a statement is a need for one. Funding for it is actually not your problem but many LEAs are now going down the devolved funding route to save cash. IPSEA pointed out a couple of years back that devolved funding is bad news for SEN.

EP report is something that many LEAs take note of; the problem here is that many EPs are employed directly by the LEA and are under pressure not to readily statement. School should tell you when the EP goes in and it is around that time I would apply for the statement from the LEA. You would need to write to the Chief Education Officer at the LEA and give them six weeks to reply.

I as you can see don't live in Herts but even I know that SEN provision in that county is pretty dire.

grumpypants · 23/09/2011 19:00

My understanding is that if school or parent applies, the statutory process is the same; right of appeal by parent if stat ass refused. There are differences if other agencies apply re; timescale so best if school or parent apply.

coff33pot · 23/09/2011 20:07

Re: 1 to 1 support my DS currently was getting 15 hrs funded and another 15 hours on top paid by the school and it is still like that now but I am nowhere near hertfordshire.......

DS was also seen by an EP by the school and then again by another EP currently during the Stat Assess ongoing.

Claw3 · 23/09/2011 20:43

EP, SALT, OT including those employed by the LA, all stated in their recommendations that ds needs "a high level of 1:1". Ds's school can provide 20 hours of 1:1.

Ds gets zero, because in SENCO's opinion, he doesnt need it. What help the school decide to give ds, all hinges on the SENCO, without a statement.

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